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The she doesn't deserve my forgiveness line was not a fishing expedition. It was her recognizing that I'm correct in withholding forgiveness for now.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:49 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:42 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

I stand corrected.

You are 'Johnny on the spot', and you can read her signals and body language better than any of us.

Listen, I hope she really is starting to get it. You are a good man, and you have her best interests at heart. We know you want to do right by her, and that what you need is for her to do right by you.

What needs to happen is for her to realise that, and start behaving accordingly.

Last night, following a vacation that I had decided I would enjoy regardless of my current relationship issues.

By "vacation", do you mean the trip you used PTO days to take, so that you could accompany your WW on a work trip and serve as relationship police so she wouldn't have sex with the asshole?

Some positive steps. Keep it up. Her actually looking for a new job and recognizing that you are hurting because of her A is a good thing and a step toward remorse. Good luck.

As we were getting back, my wife was getting in a bit of a somber mood and I asked her if anything was wrong or if something had changed, and she said no.

Then last night after work (she worked from home). She came to me basically bawling her eyes out.

Your suspicions that she never went NC, and had just been dumped by the AP when she got back to work are almost certainly correct. If we are interpreting this correctly the vacation was when you mate guarded her, the AP was irritated he didn’t have unfettered access to her and he decided this wasn’t worth his time anymore. He then dumped her. So as soon as that happened, you came home and she’s crying her eyes out bc she sees both plan A and plan B crumbling in front of her. The shiny baubles and toys are being taken away and she was having a pity party. But she made sure to frame it for you in a way she reckoned would push your empathy buttons.

I would remain very skeptical she had a sudden epiphany about changing jobs. Much more likely that her sudden decision to look for new employment is to get away from the OM who told her to leave him alone, and now her job that was before her lifeblood of meaning and identity immediately has lost those bullshit qualities.

I would look for signs of limerence and grieving her lost lover. The tears weren’t for you. They were for herself and her pining after the deathless love she thought she had with him.

How does it feel to be plan B she’s desperately clinging to now? She’s like a drowning person clawing her way into a life raft and doing whatever it takes to survive.

1. She was in a somber mood on the way back from a trip that was originally intended for her and her lover

2. She then works from home. Is this a common occurrence?

3. She’s bawling when you return to her after she’s sat around the house all day thinking about how the cake eating is coming to an end.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:11 PM, February 27th (Thursday)]

She felt the whole time we were on vacation that my looks at her were never unalloyed love.

My WW said almost the same thing. “Why are you looking at me that way? You look like you hate me.” In fact when she said this I was feeling no such thing — just raw pain, grief, devastation and confusion. I was looking at her “that way” because I felt she was a stranger I was seeing for the first time and I was trying to process that with the person I thought I knew.

Incidentally I am so glad the BIL knows. Not glad for the fallout and pain this knowledge brings, but glad he’s not living a lie and now has information to make a decision about his life for himself. Have you talked to him and commiserated? Has he been tested for STD’s? Have you perhaps given him some resources and guidance to help him make sense of all this — and give him suggestions on next steps now that you have a little bit of experience?

By "vacation", do you mean the trip you used PTO days to take, so that you could accompany your WW on a work trip and serve as relationship police so she wouldn't have sex with the asshole?

No, this was a vacation we planned before D-Day. Just a normal vacation for school break.

How does it feel to be plan B she’s desperately clinging to now? She’s like a drowning person clawing her way into a life raft and doing whatever it takes to survive

Well it's hard to say that this is true, especially considering the idea of the matter guarding thing isn't true.
I did briefly console BIL. I didn't tell him about this forum because I'd rather not surely blow my cover (minimal though it may be). I advised some books, STD, therapy, etc.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:49 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:42 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Well it's hard to say that this is true, especially considering the idea of the mate guarding thing isn't true.

Take the mate guarding out since we were wrong about that. You still have “goes on vacation, comes back and the day she’s back at work immediately changes her tune.”

Now the charitable interpretation is she spent time with you on the trip, started really absorbing the impact this has had, looks in your eyes and sees the pain there, comes back to this run of the mill job and the whole import of the thing and how foolish she is being comes crashing in on her.

I’m hoping for the latter but preparing you for the former. You already said you suspect she was dumped. Your gut is usually right in these situations.

So of course you don’t know if she has broken NC. Has she still been reporting to you when they have had business contact?

While the job was one thing you needed, there are many other things that make up a remorseful wayward wife. If this is a first step, of course that is good, but as others have said, stay on your toes (I know you will).

I would continue to be honest with her. Remind her that you still have a broken heart and that the fact that you have felt she has not been all in make it very difficult to trust if she truly wants to help you heal.

It’s ok to admit you love someone if you do, but make sure she knows that doesn’t mean she gets a free pass to only truly starting work on the marriage when it’s convenient for her.

I’d let her know that you’ve felt an open wound since DDay that she didn’t care enough to make you feel safe from the possibility of advances from or toward the OM.

Ask her to describe in details their interactions the last two months and ask her if she’s be willing to take a poly to confirm them.

And finally, in the spirit of honesty, I’d ask her if she feels like she deserves to be 2nd place with the person she loves. And then ask her if she thinks you deserve to be behind another in line for her love and affection. Let her know that’s how you have felt. Ask her if she’s feeling this way because the AP finally really broke up with her and now she’s decided you’re the booby prize. Ask her if she is willing to poly her answer.

Honestly (that’s the theme for this post) my friend, I believe it’s ok to tell her you are still in love with her (if you really are and if you are not, why the hell are you still there?) but tell her if she truly feels the same, then she should want to give you the piece of mind that the person who is the love of your life deserves.

That’s just my opinion. I decided long ago that you were not going to be someone that cuts and runs from a WS who only was showing inklings of remorse. But it’s clear to me that you don’t feel you can follow that path, to the concern of many of us here. So if you are going to give her this slack that gives her all to many chances to do the right thing, then you may as well tell her what you need in order to feel you can get back to a living relationship.

Just my thoughts. Good luck.

And one more thing. I’ve been saying this a lot lately.

But if the AP is still in her heart, and she’s still missing him in her life in any way, then I don’t believe you have someone that fully cares about the pain she has caused you.

And honestly, I think you should say that to her.

I love my wife with all my heart, and if someone hurt her, or helped me hurt her not only would they be out of my life forever, but I would see them as a broken piece of shit, forever.

For me that would be important, and if this is truly a turned page for her, then that’s a discussion you need to have. True reconciliation cannot happen with someone who still holds a place in her heart for the man that helped stab her husband in the back. I’m hoping you agree.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:27 PM, February 27th (Thursday)]

So of course you don’t know if she has broken NC. Has she still been reporting to you when they have had business contact?

It is impossible to confirm she has told the whole truth, but yes she has been reporting business contact.

So if you are going to give her this slack that gives her all to many chances to do the right thing, then you may as well tell her what you need in order to feel you can get back to a living relationship

I have communicated my wants openly. I've repeated them. There really isn't any mystery to her about my feelings. What is left is to see what she chooses to do.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:49 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:43 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Kinda shocked about the BIL being informed...

Who informed him? No way the cheaters grew some morals and confessed...surely.

How's he taking it? Did he get actual facts or a watered down "it was just words, nothing physical" version?

Either way...stay the course. Her house of cards is falling and she wants you to white knight rescue her from her bad decisions. She will try anything to get you to step up and save her.

Don't do it...the price will be higher later on.

Kinda shocked about the BIL being informed...
Who informed him? No way the cheaters grew some morals and confessed...surely.
How's he taking it? Did he get actual facts or a watered down "it was just words, nothing physical" version?
Either way...stay the course. Her house of cards is falling and she wants you to white knight rescue her from her bad decisions. She will try anything to get you to step up and save her.
Don't do it...the price will be higher later on.

I informed him, my patience on the matter came to an end. I don't have a ton of details so I don't know how much truth he will get. I don't know how he is taking it. My guess is not well since finding out feels like getting hit by a bus.
I don't plan on changing anything in my actions toward my WW. If my WW continues to have improvements in thoughts an actions, then I will consider reconciliation and forgiveness as possible.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:49 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:43 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

At this point, there’s really no way to know for sure if AP dumped her. From all other posts by T, it appears contact with AP has been pretty minimal. I think it’s more likely WW is starting to come out of the fog and may be realizing what’s at stake and how close she is to losing everything. Either way, it’s a long road back through R. Hoping for the best for you.

At this point, there’s really no way to know for sure if AP dumped her. From all other posts by T, it appears contact with AP has been pretty minimal. I think it’s more likely WW is starting to come out of the fog and may be realizing what’s at stake and how close she is to losing everything. Either way, it’s a long road back through R. Hoping for the best for you.

Good on you for informing the BIL.

Taking initiative and standing on truth is a boss move that demonstrates you are not working off their playbook anymore...you control you, not them controlling you like a puppet.

Good job. Keep strong and stay the course.

Remember...people often hate the truth up front. You may get some blowback for telling truth, but you will win in the end. The truth is always the right answer in the end....even if you are hated for speaking it in that moment.

Thank you for telling your BIL.

How did your wife handle that?

It is just my opinion, but I believe that TIF has demonstrated:

1. You can not force, or bully, a WS to fix herself (or, in fact, do anything). Demands only generate resentment and are not productive in the long run. The WS has to want to fix themselves, become remorseful, and fix themselves because they WANT to change, not that they have been badgered into it. Lingering resentments would leave a door open for a repeat of betrayal. It is understood that a spouse can not control their WS; they can only control themselves.

2. TIF demonstrated his strength, by showing patience, and allowed his wife to get "out of the fog" (We hope.). WW seems to have come around on her own so that she realized that she must change jobs and show the respect to TIF that he deserves. I hope that WW came to her senses to realize that she CHOOSES TIF, and did not default to TIF because he was Plan B. In any event, she will need a significant amount of IC to help her totally fix herself and to become safe for TIF.

3. It is acknowledged often that it takes time for some WWs to get the heads out of their backsides and realize the error in their choices/ways, to come to their senses, and then to develop regret, and remorse. TIF knows his wife better than any anonymous poster. I believe that he WAS taking everyone's advice and then implementing it in a way that he felt was most effective under his unique circumstances (FOO issues, wife's general anxiety issues, wife's personal identity issues, wife's stress at work, etc.). Some may think that he showed weakness and did not act swiftly enough, but TIF needed to act according to his "on the field" assessment of the situation. As we all acknowledge, it was always up to him to decide what was appropriate.

I am happy that TIF has informed BIL. It was his decision to do so, and at a time when he thought appropriate, and when he could live with his action. I am glad that this issue has been laid to rest. TIF will have to provide significant, continuous support to his wife as she now deals with her sister about the disclosure. I would not bet that this will be easy for her or TIF as the consequences occur.

Hopefully, TIF and his wife are now on the road towards recovery and eventually reconcilation. However, they still have a long way to go. I hope that TIF gets all necessary strength and support, in a constructive way, as they continue down life's highway.

Sending strength and support, and an "attaboy".

[This message edited by PassThis at 11:02 AM, February 28th (Friday)]

Thank you for telling your BIL.
How did your wife handle that?

The story she heard (from her sister) is that her sister finally told the BIL. She took it just fine. I don't feel any burning desire to correct that narrative.
Things are going well overall right now. She is looking for jobs actively again (she has been here before, but now it seems more in earnest). Our intimacy never really dropped off and honestly has been pretty good throughout. I find myself often enjoying her company more that I had in the last few months.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 3:49 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:43 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

"I of course, have my own doubts, that NC was ever really achieved, and that she has just been dumped by the AP."

I agree 100% with your surmising here. The affair partner has cut her off and now she's branching back to you.

Take care of yourself. I do wish the best for you.