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So, what is your plan and how are you getting it done?

So, what is your plan and how are you getting it done?

My plan remains unchanged. I have stated and will continue to state my wants in this relationship and watch for improvements. I will make decisions that I believe will give me the best outcomes. As before, prudence dictates I not speak too much about future plans.
As far as observations go: at our latest MC session, my WW explained the reason for her wanting to quit her job now was that she was leaving self-preservation mode and recognized the job was more of a reminder of her affair than it was a part of her identity and that being reminded of the affair was painful. She said the pain was more pronounced because coming back from vacation where she spent time with only me, where she was only briefly reminded of the pain she caused in one conversation, was a stark contrast to having it in her face all the time (as it is at work). And that she was either numb to, or used to facing this pain prior to the vacation.
I didn't coach for this answer at all, and I did like it. I said that I had felt for the first time she was showing real remorse and not just guilt.
I would say I'm more confident she is telling me the truth than I was before. The doubt will of course remain that I'm being strung along and lied to, especially if she walks back her actions again (stops looking for a job).
So, while things are not complete with a bow on them, the current direction is positive. I remain optimistic that they will continue to improve, but I am prepared for possible collapse.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:40 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

That sounds like she may have had a reality check and saw something she did not want to lose. Her Family.

I lost track somewhere around post 450 and don't know if you found out if they had any sort of sexual contact other than hand holding and kissing?

Leaving the job, if she does is a good thing... the EA must have been pretty strong (if not a PA).

Good luck it's like you might one of the few couples we see here who come out ok and together at the end.

They way you explain her reasoning is confusing to me.

A truly wayward spouse will care more about the pain that she caused her betrayed spouse than her own pain.

I can’t tell by the way you described it if she is leaving work because it is painful to her or because she cares how painful it is to you to have her still working with the AP.

I think that matters. I hope she does, but only you can truly tell. But the way you wrote about it doesn’t make it clear to me.

That sounds like she may have had a reality check and saw something she did not want to lose. Her Family.
I lost track somewhere around post 450 and don't know if you found out if they had any sort of sexual contact other than hand holding and kissing?
Leaving the job, if she does is a good thing... the EA must have been pretty strong (if not a PA).
Good luck it's like you might one of the few couples we see here who come out ok and together at the end.

The one kiss followed immediately by him pushing her away and her coming home is the current truth. No polygraph, but it has been consistent for some time. I find it believable, but obviously have doubt. The EA was definitely strong. She said as much, and didn't sugar coat the feelings she felt she had for him when she told me after I found out.
We'll see if we make it.

They way you explain her reasoning is confusing to me.
A truly wayward spouse will care more about the pain that she caused her betrayed spouse than her own pain.
I can’t tell by the way you described it if she is leaving work because it is painful to her or because she cares how painful it is to you to have her still working with the AP.
I think that matters. I hope she does, but only you can truly tell. But the way you wrote about it doesn’t make it clear to me.

Her words were along the lines of, "Every time I see his name on an email, it's a reminder of the pain I caused you." I told her continuing to work with him is still causing me pain, it isn't just a reminder. She said she understood.
Just a quick reminder to everyone in the thread, they don't have to work at the same physical location, and have not been at the same physical location since the "modified NC" agreement has been in place. The project they worked together on is complete.
I never would have backed off my divorce threat if they shared the same physical location eight hours a day.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:41 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

"Every time I see his name on an email, it's a reminder of the pain I caused you."

I am no brain expert but my guess is her brain waves go something like this:

1. Sees his name on email.

2. Quick excitement, minor flutter as she recalls what she wanted and cannot have.

3. Sigh.

4. Oh, my love for an OM caused my H pain.

5. Back to normal but sad for a few minutes.

Hopefully if you two stick it out, there will be no reaction, not excitement, not disgust but nothing...but that may take a long time.

She said she was falling in love with him but wasn't in love with him yet. She said it felt like being back in high school pining after someone like that.

"Does he like me or does he like like me?"

Splitting hairs like a high school girl. She was in love, and it will take a long time for her to get over it .

It's up to you if you want to wait for her.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 1:04 AM, March 4th (Wednesday)]

Just a quick reminder to everyone in the thread, they don't have to work at the same physical location, and have not been at the same physical location since the "modified NC" agreement has been in place. The project they worked together on is complete.

You’re trying to justify her actions? Why?

There is no way to tell if there’s contact or not in a workplace environment.

I am no brain expert but my guess is her brain waves go something like this:
1. Sees his name on email.
2. Quick excitement, minor flutter as she recalls what she wanted and cannot have.
3. Sigh.
4. Oh, my love for an OM caused my H pain.
5. Back to normal but sad for a few minutes.
Hopefully if you two stick it out, there will be no reaction, not excitement, not disgust but nothing...but that may take a long time.
She said she was falling in love with him but wasn't in love with him yet. She said it felt like being back in high school pining after someone like that.
"Does he like me or does he like like me?"
Splitting hairs like a high school girl. She was in love, and it will take a long time for her to get over it .
It's up to you if you want to wait for her.

It's amazing the number of times I've seen the word limerence on this site and you choose to describe it as love. She was not in love with him. I know there is a pattern. I know people get the ILYBINILWY. I never got this. I choose to believe her on this.

You’re trying to justify her actions? Why?
There is no way to tell if there’s contact or not in a workplace environment.

I'm not justifying HER actions, I'm justifying MY lack of action. I agree that it's impossible to tell, but it's also impossible to tell even if they aren't working together if they are going on lunch dates. There is a restaurant in the ground floor of my WW's office. I can never be 100% sure where she is or what she is doing. I have to give her some amount of trust, even if it isn't complete because there is no complete assurance.
I feel like some people on this forum must drive themselves mad looking and looking and searching and searching. Something has to be enough or else nothing will ever be enough.
Is the NC letter (which I confirmed hers and APs), plus the agreement to report contact when it occurs at work, GPS location, access to accounts, plus the fact that she says she is sorry and showing genuine remorse and currently looking for a job, and that she has previously offered (though while way to wound up) to resign then and there, and that she is at least seemingly openly communicating, that she isn't minimizing anymore, that she isn't and hasn't blame shifted, that we aren't rugsweeping, that she has really done quite a bit even if it's not as much or as fast as I want it, is it not enough?
It is for me.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:41 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

1. Sees his name on email.

2. Quick excitement, minor flutter as she recalls what she wanted and cannot have.

3. Sigh.

4. Oh, my love for an OM caused my H pain.

5. Back to normal but sad for a few minutes.

Well, one thing we know is that thoughts can flow so quickly that the flow can't be analyzed. The 5 steps above could be what's happening.

OTOH, my bet is that my W feels revulsion with herself when she gets a reminder of her A.

I have no idea what TiF's W's thought process is. TiF is the only person here who gets his W's full communications. I haven't read anything in this thread that makes me think his judgment is way off.

I believe R has to be built on 2 people who want R and who are willing to work for R. If the WS makes a big change to please her BS, when R gets difficult, it's too easy for the WS to blame the BS. IMO, TiF is much better off with a W who chooses to find a new job for her own reasons rather than just to please him.

Many (most?) of us would have made a job change a requirement for R. TiF so far hasn't done that. He gets to choose his own requirements.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:13 AM, March 4th (Wednesday)]

I suppose my two questions in all this are:

1. Did you confirm with BIL that he was told of his WW's affair?

2. Did you and WW talk about what had happened Valentine's Day--her not getting you anything.

I don't post much here, but I've read this entire thread. It was one of the first I found when I stumbled upon SI. I just wish that this kind of thing existed when I was struggling with my DDays in the early 90's.

To me it reeks of exactly what not to do. OP has repeatedly given grounds on "do not cross lines", all the while ignoring solid advice. Thumos on page 34 gave the perfect list of what to do if you're a BS.

*A hard 180 for starters. Don't act butthurt. Just withdraw. Do it now.

*Stop sleeping in the same bed.

*Stop providing physical affection. You can always receive affection, if you want, but you can also simply not initiate affection. She'll get the message.

*Stop having sex with her.

*Cook for you and your kids only. Or maybe stop cooking for a few weeks, say you're tired and just order takeout.

*Start arranging for social outings in the evening in the middle of the week without her.

*Get a new wardrobe.

*Build as much muscle mass as you can - hit a 24 hour gym with a good weight room and do it at night after the kids are asleep. It's a great stress reliever and gets you out of the house away from her.

*Go on a trip without her (or just take a Saturday and go off in the woods or something by yourself).

*Stop sitting on a couch and watching movies or TV with her.

*Stop living in her world. Start living in yours.

I've saved this on my computer so that I give post it for others. OP has repeatedly ignored pretty much everything so far. I hope that he gets to the end of the path he's chosen, but I don't think that it's the one he really wants.

I suspect that the EA was a PA all along and that WW's refusal to take a Poly is confirmation of that. She's only begun to show the faintest signs of remorse after her AP finally kicked her to the curb. That happened after their recent vaca. I honestly don't think she's a safe bet for R...but its not my life, not my wife.

TIF, I hope you get what you want out of this mess, but I don't think you will. I'll go back to lurking now.

I suppose my two questions in all this are:
1. Did you confirm with BIL that he was told of his WW's affair?
2. Did you and WW talk about what had happened Valentine's Day--her not getting you anything.

Since I told him about it, I'm sure he's been told. He didn't indicate that his WW had told him yet. By the time it got back to my wife (a few days later), the way she heard it was that the SIL told the BIL. Presumably this is some sort of face saving maneuver. Like I said, I feel no need to correct the record.
Yeah, we talked about it the day after, and we talked about it again one other time before vacation, once during the vacation and once during MC. The reasoning of course shifted from "I forgot" which everyone knows is horse shit, to "I didn't want to do something that felt forced", to "I was just scared to do anything" etc. More or less I see it as a manifestation of her anxiety and that she once again ran away from her perceived problem. That said, it absolutely hurts and isn't something that I have forgotten about.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:41 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

"The reasoning of course shifted from "I forgot" which everyone knows is horse shit, to "I didn't want to do something that felt forced", to "I was just scared to do anything" etc."

All of your wife's excuses equate to, "I'm not remorseful and willing to do everything I can to fix what I've broken." "Instead I'm going to run to my selfish self-preservation mode and not reveal my true feelings to you, not open up and give you all of me, not trust you with my weaknesses and failures, not commit myself to you or this marriage, not help you heal from this, not give you outward signs of my affection and love, and not do anything productive. Instead, I'm going to just feel sorry for myself."

I'd suspect that your wife would be exuberant about sharing all of those things with the other man. I wonder why she won't share with her husband.

Take your life back and take charge of your family. Make the best life choices for yourself and remember that you are the prize. Never allow anyone to waste your time and your life by introducing chaos, pain, and calamity into it. Your quality of life is under your control. Make your happiness the priority. I wish the best for you.

T,

I’m glad there’s been some encouraging changes (more like maybe getting ready to think about changing) in your relationship with WW. Question, did you call her out on the continually shifting Valentines Day story in front of the MC. Gently, her final iteration on this “I was just scared to do anything" feels way, way off. Not the action of someone who’s remorseful, wants to show you that it’s YOU she wants and is all in to save her marriage. IDK, could be something else entirely.

T,
I’m glad there’s been some encouraging changes (more like maybe getting ready to think about changing) in your relationship with WW. Question, did you call her out on the continually shifting Valentines Day story in front of the MC. Gently, her final iteration on this “I was just scared to do anything" feels way, way off. Not the action of someone who’s remorseful, wants to show you that it’s YOU she wants and is all in to save her marriage. IDK, could be something else entirely.

We dug in on it a bit at MC, but we didn't really get past self-preservation, and her saying she wanted to show her feelings in a way that was less forced. It's not something I think I'll get a lot out of her on right now.
For those of you wondering, my eyes are wide open. There is the possibility that every action she has taken has been a lie, that the A is still ongoing (or she wants it to) and that all the progress is false recovery. That's why I'm not really counting anything as a victory yet here. Things just feel like they are progressing in the right direction.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:41 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

My guess on the Valentine’s Day thing is more her being petty and passive aggressive. None of her other excuses make any real sense.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. The limbo phase is the worst.

My guess on the Valentine’s Day thing is more her being petty and passive aggressive. None of her other excuses make any real sense.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. The limbo phase is the worst.

The current phase is way better than the first month, at least in my case. I try not to think of it as limbo. More like a non-linear recovery filled with doubt. Which is maybe just limbo but with more words.

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[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 6:41 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

I wonder how your WW is truly feeling too. Her rationales for not doing anything on Valentine's Day don't make sense to me either, and they sure don't sound like someone who is grateful that you are still there. It sounds to me that she was reaching for anything plausible-instead of the real truth.

Anyways she does not sound to me to be remorseful.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:36 PM, March 6th (Friday)]

More like a non-linear recovery filled with doubt. Which is maybe just limbo but with more words.

I’m so glad you’re keeping your sense of humor!

You have a plan and have charted a path to the future. That's what really matters. I fully understand why you want to keep things close to your chest.