SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Phoenix,

Thank you. We haven't discussed the specifics yet. The whole conflict avoidance and denial thing sorta slows progress. The WW will not be on board at all. I'm not telling my girls had a boyfriend, that's her job. I will however tell them that their mom hurt me more than anyone could ever hurt me. The kids aren't dumb but they will surely believe that it had to be something that I did wrong. That will be a whole long tactful process of its own to overcome. Right, wrong or indifferent I will take the high road as long as I can. I know she didn't but we have to stay true to who we are.

My mother told my sister and I both about my father's cheating when we were 15 and 17 respectively. Granted she was a bit upset, but was quite matter a fact about it. Which I appreciated and still do to this day.

Honestly it gave me a much better understanding about relationships right before I went to college. Which helped as I had a somewhat naive/Disney/Men should be Prince Charming view of marriage/relationships before that. Cheating just wasn't something I thought about at all.

I'm not saying you have to tell your kids what your wife did. I'm just saying I really think the automatic reaction regarding infidelity in the family is to shield it from the kids. Chances are they're going to have to deal with cheating sooner or later in their lives/relationships if they haven't already. Might as well learn about it sooner rather than later.

And it doesn't mean that they're automatically going to hate their mother. Hell I've known about my Dad's cheating for almost 20 years and so do my siblings, and our relationship is fine. Granted I've lost a lot of respect for him and he was no longer the infallible adult he was to me as a child, but he never was infallible anyway. No parent is. There's no harm in children learning that as long as it's addressed appropriately. Most do sooner or later.

Now in your case, telling them what your wife did at this point in time would probably cause more harm than good. Since you seem inclined to not tell them what your wife did, it would probably be best if you guys figure out what to tell them together.

However, when your kids are adults, if they ask for specifics you should tell them. I definitely agree you should make sure none of the blame falls on your shoulders whatever you tell them.

JS84,

Thanks for posting. I think the whole knight in shining armor/good guy thing is what got me in this shit pot to begin with. Trying to do the right thing all the time so I don't rock the boat, keeping the peace. I became a 250 pound wussy without a spine. That has changed. I lost 30 pounds from not being able to eat for months! Hah! No, a lot has changed and my world is a whole lot clearer now. Thanks again for your perspective!

My children are much younger than yours but a therapist gave us a suggestion. I'm paraphrasing but it was something like - when people get married, they make promises to each other. STBWX broke his promise to Mommy.

We told them about the divorce together. Their biggest concern was were they would live. Once I told them they would live with me, they were calmed.

Bleu,

Thank you for the response. Definitely going to be doing it together. My WW is unfortunately going to resist taking the blame. I just hope she doesn't try to get defensive and start slinging mud. I want to make a game plan but it makes her feel bad talking about it.

who cares about what your WW thinks or wants to do 3rd. YOu chose to cheat on you independently, she didn't ask you did she?

Now you have the opportunity to tell the truth. That is the right thing to do, and the law is there to protect you as well. I wouldn't lie to the kids. Tell them the truth whether or not your WW chooses to. Let your kids know that you have their backs, and that you won't lie to them like other men will in their lives. They are looking and dependent on you DAD. That doesn't mean that you dirty things up for them about mom, just the plain truth about whats happened. They are teenagers, they will get it.

I need you to exhaust all of your resources to research, learn and implement ways on how to earn my trust again.Up to this point the only thing that's been exhausted is me.

Jeeze man - where were you 6 months ago so I could've stolen this and slapped it upside my xdouchehole's head??

Yeah, I remember a similar argument towards the end. When he said "I don't know what more I can do make you feel better." I told him to remove his head from his rectum and Google it FFS. I mean, he would google bolts for his engine for literally days, but couldn't be bothered to figure out how to help clear up the wreckage he made of our lives...

I mean, he would google bolts for his engine for literally days, but couldn't be bothered to figure out how to help clear up the wreckage he made of our lives... 

...she would Google Korean skin care products for literally days, but couldn't be bothered...

Reading that my mind immediately went to places lol. Although near the end she seemed addicted to watching "relationship/dating advice" videos from various YouTube personalities, I can only imagine some of the garbage advice was given. Not like it changed her behavior. One chanel in particular was all about open relationships

Jeeze man - where were you 6 months ago so I could've stolen this and slapped it upside my xdouchehole's head??

(((Ellie))) douchehole - thank you for this!

she would Google Korean skin care products for literally days, but couldn't be bothered

Is she mentally 16????

HalfTime,

You are absolutely right, I don't owe her anything. Her actions were selfish and reprehensible. My girls will know the truth but their mother will be telling them with me right beside her. WW thinks and has said that she "owned" the affair. I will let her prove it by telling the truth to her children, her parents and my family. (incidentally, she admitted the affair, she hasn't owned jack shit!)

EllieK,

I'm sorry but I'm fixin' to go all fanboy on you! To answer your question, six months ago I was reading the shit you were writing and was amazed at how truthful and raw you are. I thought to myself "OMG, I want to be her f-ing friend! If being a BS is like a boxing match, I want this woman in my corner keeping me psyched up and talking smack!" You have a gift of taking a poignant thought and then write it out with humor and fucking style.

I HAVE stolen some of your material and will gladly pay you royalties! Thank you for being you!

My WW surfs the web for sewing stuff for hours and still looks for fun things we can do together as a family this summer. SMDH

[This message edited by 3rdstrike at 6:54 AM, January 23rd (Thursday)]

Just my opinion, But you know she is fully aware of what she is doing to you and the family right? She is not a child you should not have to tell her, any of the thigs you find yourself telling her over and over. She knew and still knows fully well what she did. Time to believe who she has shown you she is and move on. Sorry dude....

I'm sorry but I'm fixin' to go all fanboy on you! To answer your question, six months ago I was reading the shit you were writing and was amazed at how truthful and raw you are. I thought to myself "OMG, I want to be her f-ing friend! If being a BS is like a boxing match, I want this woman in my corner keeping me psyched up and talking smack!" You have a gift of taking a poignant thought and then write it out with humor and fucking style.

I HAVE stolen some of your material and will gladly pay you royalties! Thank you for being you!

Wow - thank you! It means more than I can say knowing that my shares have helped people. I really just feel like I am paying it forward for all the people on here who's words have helped ME so much in dealing with this crap!

And I will talk shit with BSs all day long Feels good to be feisty again! I had lost that for a long time.

...she would Google Korean skin care products for literally days, but couldn't be bothered...

Well I am sure that is way more important than figuring one's shit out...

Dblackstar,

Your opinion is spot on. They all know what they are doing to a point. However, there is no doubt that some have a deep seated defense mechanism that allows them to bury it deep inside that prevents them from feeling the pain and humiliation of their actions. It by no means excuses them for their actions or their responsibility to take corrective actions. It just makes them more broken and prone to repeating history...over and over.

Update for the reality setting in. The certified letter notification from my lawyer (Divorce complaint) finally showed up in the mail today. Now she will have to go to the post office to sign for it.

So it begins. Well, so begins this part of the shit show. Wish me luck!

You've got this! Be prepared for the Hail Mary performance from WW.

They all know what they are doing to a point. However, there is no doubt that some have a deep seated defense mechanism that allows them to bury it deep inside that prevents them from feeling the pain and humiliation of their actions.

IME, it's pretty rare that someone is so blind to their own actions that they think they're being upfront and honest when instead they're being deceptive and manipulative. Only people with very severe mental health issues are that capable of compartmentalization and denial over very clear, black-and-white situations.

What's much more common is something more akin to narcissism and in particular, selfishness and entitlement. Your WW knows she has not been the beacon of remorse and R material but she also believes wholeheartedly she can get away with pretending she is and her actions leading up to being served support that. The goal IS NOT a healthy one like R. It's to "win" by staving off the consequences with as little effort given as possible. And it's worked for her for X number of years. If the seat got too hot, she'd break down, claim she was trying, turn things back on you a little bit, etc. and each time, someone, maybe you or multiple people in her life, backed off and accepted that response. Suddenly, the consequences of her actions went away. So she learned to keep doing it and she knows it's not entirely the truth but she does it because it works. To her, not experiencing the consequences matters more than other people's feelings and moral issues like honesty and authenticity. Refusing to change that may be cowardice or maybe she just doesn't think the marriage is worth the effort when it's so much easier to cry, lie, and play the victim in order to garner support from others who don't know enough about the situation to realize how in the wrong she is. This is how the minds of people who have issues with empathy work much like narcissists and sociopaths. They value things differently than those of us with empathy for others.

If she wholeheartedly believed everything she was saying about trying was true, why would she step up her efforts to try and stop you from D'ing her? If she's doing everything possible, she can't just suddenly find more to do. But some how she did because she already saw some places in which she was lacking. None of those areas were what you asked for or needed from her, of course, they were simply what was most convenient for her to change temporarily to give you the allusion that she's trying harder aka love bombing. It's little inconsistencies like this that reveal just how deeply manipulative she is as opposed to someone so depressed and broken they've completely given up on the situation despite wanting to change it.

I'd also like to say that IME, when a WS refuses to be transparent, it's because they're hiding so much more than you know about. People who have nothing to hide hide nothing. Chances are, as soon as the D progresses, OM or a new OM you don't yet know about is going to make an appearance and quickly she will try to say they met after you separated from her. So what if that happens? What would that say about her that she's putting forth this half assed attempt, manipulating the crap out of you, and yet still has someone else on the side? A whole lot of terrible things, right? Well, I personally have never heard of a WS who refused transparency and wasn't still cheating in some capacity despite being a member here nearly 6 years and reading almost daily so if she isn't currently hiding some form of recent transgression, she'd be the first. Pretty safe to assume she's got someone waiting in the wings for her once this is all over.

I thought similar things about my WXBF immediately after the break up. I could piece together many times where he blatantly used weakness he knew about to manipulate me. But I wasn't ready to accept that he was doing it on purpose until I had had enough time, distance, and growth to look back on the situation more objectively. It LOOKS evil. It looks heinous. And generally, it's done all the time from people we wouldn't describe that way. She too can be both. She can be severely broken and very manipulative and toxic. That's how some of the worst people you can think of are. Just about every serial killer has a horrible, abusive childhood it's just that most people with bad childhoods don't go on to kill people and it's like that for her too. She's broken but she has still made these hurtful choices of her own volition.

Nekon,

Well shit! Since you put it that way....

I am with you 100% on everything you said. I know she has been trying to manipulate the hell out of me. I won't fall for any of her bullshit any more. I do however, try to give her the benefit of doubt on how bat shit crazy she is. Being the mother of my kids I want to believe that she will always have their best interest in mind. I know she'd never ever hurt them but I question if she will fuck with their heads. I know my youngest one is already so much like her mom, it's scary. It's very scary.

Thank you for your insight and taking time to write all of that stuff down. It really does put a very in-depth perspective on things.

The high road is very lonely at times, but is often the best course of action. I applaud you with that. It is easy to slip down into the mud with this stuff.

My girls will know the truth but their mother will be telling them with me right beside her.

Dare I say we've seen this thought expressed many, many times on SI over the years? The reality, in many cases, is the WS doesn't step up to the plate in a way a BS was hoping for. There is often a lot of skirting the real issue, minimizing actions, etc. It happens. A lot. Sometimes they will become brazen and try to shift blame or rewrite the narrative completely to avoid looking bad to the kids.

I'm saying this to prepare you. Be prepared to step in and control the narrative, if need be. MAKE her own her actions to the kids. If she won't because she is conflict avoidant and it makes her "feel bad" (heaven forbid ), then be prepared to tell them yourself. DON'T step back and let her wiggle out of it. You will do your kids a real disservice if you do.

As teens, they likely already know much more than your realize. Kids are smarter than most adults realize. They watch and hear things, usually unbeknownst to us.

Once you get the real reason out in the open, you can certainly assure them (in a different conversation without your WW present) you will continue to be there for them as that won't change and, as they process the events you will answer any questions they may have honestly. Then be prepared to live up to that.

My youngest DD was 16 when the shit hit the fan. Once she found out she started putting puzzle pieces together on her own. As she processed the new information and those puzzle pieces started to fall into place she started asking questions. Many questions (more puzzle pieces to fit together). As I promised from the outset, I answered every question she had honestly. No emotion, no bashing her father, but with total honesty. She thanked me many times for treating her like an adult and not like a little kid. She also said so many things she had seen and heard over the years made so much more sense now, and she shared some of those things with me.

So just be prepared to be the adult in the room.

I wish you luck as it certainly isn't an easy nor pleasant conversation to have.

Phoenix,

I wish I didn't believe you but I know you are right. The truth is, my kids are going to be more prone to believing their mom. I've always been the fun loving goofball and WW was cranky and a bit militant. After the affair and I started the 180 the WW upped her A game on being fun and jovial. I, on the other hand have lost some of my spunk. I'd say she saw this coming and has been trying to build up a safety net with the girls. I knew from the get go I'd have a battle.

I'm curious, do you have concrete evidence of the affair that your STBXWW can't refute???

[This message edited by JS84 at 2:52 AM, January 24th (Friday)]