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Is your BS now suffering from PTSD?

My BS to became very traumatized by my multiple offenses, his discovery on DDay, my very poor handling of details, trickle truth and lashing out. 2 years out. Some

Things are improved, some are not.

Very interested in learning about your interactions with your spouse now. Daily life. Have you gotten expert help?

Specific things that are helpful or not helpful to do.

How they have expressed they wish to be treated in specific moments (flooding or triggering, others)

I have been trying to find a forum or group for spouse of others with PTSD only see ones for Veterans families.

Thanks for any input

BS here.

I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD from the betrayal trauma.

Are you or your spouse in IC? I would suggest you each have one that is skilled in betrayal trauma. Look up APSATS or similar for someone that has training specifically in partners.

Listen to the 2-part series on the Addicted Mind podcast to help you understand. There's another podcast by the same people (Duane Osterland and Marnie Breeker) that is helpful too.

Look into the books PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder), The Body Keeps Score, and Living and Loving after Betrayal. These have exercises your BS can do.

Look into EMDR.

Honestly, the most important thing you can do is acknowledge triggers. Talk about them if your BS is willing. Don't ignore if it makes you uncomfortable. Apologize often and offer support. (My WH tells me often that he is sorry for his affair, sorry for the pain and triggers that he brought into my life, and what can he do in that moment to help.) I trigger often and trigger hard. Sometimes I want my WH to hold me, sometimes I want my space. My WH is consistent in his support and remorse. He tries to offer that support in whatever way that helps. For example, the other night I asked him to sit a certain way so that I could sit in his lap and cry. I know the AP was never in that position with him so it felt safe. He just held me while I cried. Other days he covers kids, dinner, etc so that I can have a drink and cry. That's all he can do. The rest is up to me to learn to deal with unfortunately. Love him. Support him. Talk to him. Ask him what he wants. Even if it makes you uncomfortable, ask.

We've been in this mess for almost 3 years. PA knowledge for about 9 months. I'm now at the point where I *know* that it's the triggers and I try to lead with that. For example I triggered the other night, freaked out, started crying in a parking lot, and when he got in the car, I just said I'm triggered, I'm having trouble regulating, and then went off. He sat, listened, apologized for his affair asked if he could do anything, and then left me to come back to a calm state.

I hope your BS can get some help and get to a better space.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 5:48 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

Hello tx thank you for taking the time to reply.

It must be very difficult to talk about all of this for you. I am sorry you are here, I am sorry you have been put through this.

I will definitely look into the podcast, I have read one of the books, I’ll look for the rest.

I keep looking for info because standard things that work well for some couples haven’t work in our case. I believe my BS having awareness of them (because we learned about them from same source) when I put them into practice they are rejected. Sometimes these things make things way worse, increasing the intensity of the trigger or the flooding. There is too much pain and anger.

Then again, some things seem to be evolving as of late, and certain things are now more acceptable at times. Thankfully because my BS has made the specific request.

We have had some guidance (course for couples related to infidelity), a course for me the WS, some counseling.

I am afraid the PTSD is complex as well :(

Oh. Do you find yourself often having conflicting feelings/wishes about some things. One day you want you spouse to do one thing but another day that thing is intolerable?

My BS has PTSD from my affairs and the multiple ddays and trickle truth that followed. He hasn’t been officially diagnosed but that’s what it is.

Very interested in learning about your interactions with your spouse now. Daily life. Have you gotten expert help?

Daily life is overall uneventful and intense. He has to work constantly to maintain a state of peace and calm. It doesn’t come naturally to him anymore. He works continuously to be aware of when he is getting dark or triggered, what’s causing it and letting me know that he feels it coming on. He is in IC and we are in MC but we have a long ways to go. We are learning every day.

Specific things that are helpful or not helpful to do.

At the end of the day my BH says what helps the most and what he needs the most from me is consistency. Consistency w my actions is crucial for him to feel safe and to build trust in me again. Now I wish I could say that this came easily for me. The one thing is I don’t give up. I don’t run away, retreat or take my claws out. We still have many communication breakdowns but we are getting better at working through them. The flooding and triggering events get shorter w time and farther and fewer between. We don’t question that he has PTSD and it helps to look at it from that point of view. I also wish there was more out there in regards to this. It’s a real thing.

Thank you change4dbetter for your post and your time.

It does help to know that some of this super difficult moments we are dealing with are related to the PTSD, that all the things said or done are not necessarily what is felt inside but reactions that are out of their control.

Helps put things in perspective and look beyond them. See the real driver of those actions and try and try again.

The communication is hindered by this whole situation and the PTSD surely.

I want to get to that place myself, of not reacting, no more getting angry, no running away as I have sometimes. No matter what I am going to persevere.

Thank you again

BW here, also with a C-PTSD (the A) and PTSD (my WH's suicide attempt) diagnosis. Dday was a bit more than 2 yrs ago.

Personally, what I want my WH to do is to do the work on himself to become a safe partner - like any BS (w/ or w/o the PTSD dx).

I think the first thing is that the WS needs to have/ find the strength and courage to be fully present and empathetic during a trigger. IOW, don't give me the puppy dog eyes, or the self victimization or the pity party when I'm in the midst of a trigger. We are beginning year three and my WH is now better on this front, but after 2 years of little/no progress, I pretty much stopped even telling him about it, bc it would pretty quickly become about his feelings and not mine. He now sees a CSAT who recommended a book called Help Her Heal by Carol J. Sheets (she also has an infidelity podcast, which I've been so-so about). The book has exercises that looked helpful to me.

As to specifics, I think each BS is different... and like other posters, each trigger can be different. it's very hard for the BS to learn to stop and try and identify what's going on and why. And to even notice that triggers are not always the unstoppable crying (eg, the other night I caught myself eating when I wasn't hungry - that was a trigger but it took some mindfulness for me to recognize what was going on). My "flooding" triggers are now pretty rare. About a year ago, they kind of switched to a physical shaking that can range from simply twitching a foot/ankle to full body shaking like I was in the frozen tundra in a bathing suit. I always get the shakes whenever I try to relax and in the moments before/after sleeping, but other times too.

There are two books that probably helped me, as the BS, the most: The Body Keeps the Score by Bassel Van Der Kolk is a long book all about trauma. It has a ton of info about the author's research (he runs a trauma center in Mass), the physiology of what's happening to me, etc. I think it takes a ton of work for a WS (and even a BS) to understand what's happening and how damn scary it is. I'm a well educated professional who is respected in my field, yet it took me a long time to accept that this is my new "normal" and that it's pretty well impossible to avoid triggers - the best I can do is learn to manage them when they occur. IOW, I'm not sure one can ever eliminate them, but we can become skilled at management and as time goes on, it does not seem to suck the same amount of energy to recognize and recover.

The 2nd book I loved was Rick Hanson's Resilience, which has some exercises to help bring joy and gratitude into our lives. Focusing on the good helps neurons "fire" and "wire" together to form stronger pathways that build resilience to the painful things that can happen in life. He has something called the "HEAL" steps to easily find ways to incorporate the good things that happen. I've read and loved all of Brene Brown's books, but I don't know how much they directly impacted my trigger management. Some folks love Pema Chodron, but I had a hard time focusing/following her books (my takeaway is that we need to learn to find comfort in uncertainty, which IS helpful, even if I couldn't "get into" the weeds of this).

I also use guided meditations A LOT. They can really help at night (tho I've been up since 2am so it's not always a sure thing )

being mindful of situations that can be triggery would be super helpful. My DD moved to a place where we have to drive in POSOW's neighborhood, past her work, her street, etc. It would be great if my WH had the ability to just acknowledge that it is hard for me to make that drive when it's happening (my mind goes to thinking about how excited and full of life and hope he must have felt when driving there to see her. I've told him this, but every time we drive down that road, he just says nothing and behaves as if he has no idea where we are). It took a LONG time for him to stop suggesting we have dinner at one of the many hip restaurants in the area - way before my DD moved nearby. So, being mindful AND acknowledging that something may be hard would go a long way with me (and I think most BSs).

We have gotten expert help. We had an IC/MC who worked with infidelity, but had zero trauma experience. I began seeing a trauma specialist around month 7, who provided much better help (she retired, but I found someone new who is even better).

I also think it's important to keep in mind that a dday can reopen all kinds of old wounds/traumas. I'd spent a fair amount of time in IC over the years before dday, but given my old traumas were predominantly abandonment related, it was like all of that work had zero impact when I learned about my WH's As. So, what would have been relatively minor hurts over past trauma pre-dday, can become huge triggers post dday.

Do you talk to your BS about this? What does he want or ask for?

Thank you. That was a long post to write. I appreciate the time it took and all the info you just shared. I am sorry that you have all this information to share, that you have been hurt so much.

I am glad that you have had help and understanding what has happened to you I imagine has given you probably some sense of control.

It is helpful to read about different people’s experiences even if everyone has their differences and preferences. Being mindful of possible triggers helps, avoiding areas, movies, places or people is helpful when it is in your power to do so. There are just so many triggers for my BS, even acknowledging them at times have so far proven to be the wrong thing. The reaction has been one of anger. I can join my BS in crying when they do, as that has helped, maybe feel I was sharing in or feeling the pain with them. Often if trying to hold them or acknowledge what is happening using any words brings about more sadness because they don’t want my touch or Brings about anger and flooding.

It’s a conundrum. They need and want touch, the care the company. At the same time they reject it, pull Away or push me away and refuse to accept affection, or that my care or concern are real.

Sometimes at a later time verbalizing that there was no help offered, that one does nothing to help.

I will keep showing my commitment by taking everything as best as I can and not giving up. I do have to work on staying calmer always, not try to argue anything when the flooding is occurring. Sometimes staying quiet is what is desired and others brings more negative emotions and anger. I must remember that the anger and the rejection are based on a huge need to reconnect, to feel loved.

Sometimes I do well. Sometimes it gets lost in the chaos and the very bad interactions between us.

I did well this morning, not so well a few days ago :(

Have you thought about getting a pet? Sometimes is hard to only be consoled by the person that spent decades waterboarding you daily.

A mellow dog breed, doesnt even need to be trained, gives you something else to focus on other the A, and they are naturally very good at bringing you back from spiralling and anchor you back into the present.

Ah our lovely dogs have been our salvation. You are so right.

The one thing that always is welcome is that wonderful love they share with us.

Don’t know how we could have survived If we didn’t have them!!!!

[This message edited by Breathinglife at 6:46 AM, February 21st (Friday)]

In the moments of most intense flooding, when perhaps you felt so alone, maybe that your mate does not understand you or your pain/anger/resentment, that you are so over the top overwhelmed. If you expressed to your mate, that they haven’t helped you, they don’t know how to, that they aren’t doing anything to help you or the situation they put you in to.

When you are not feeling those intense emotions, did you still think the same?

Do you feel differently about your mate and their behavior, their helpfulness or lack there of, when you are not flooded?

Or when you expressed feeling that way, that was in reality of what you felt and had nothing to do with being flooded?

Do you find yourself often having conflicting feelings/wishes about some things. One day you want you spouse to do one thing but another day that thing is intolerable?

All of the time. I'm actually like that about everything. One day I want to work towards R, one day I want nothing else but to divorce. Actually, these swings can happen in the course of minutes, not even days.

As far as triggers go, yes to that too. But like was mentioned before, consistency is key. Acknowledging triggers is key. If my WH were to just switch a channel or ignore a trigger, that would make me upset. I personally prefer it when my WH acknowledges that the trigger is occurring (sees infidelity in a show) and gives me a choice (would you like to turn this off?) and offers comfort (squeeze my hand, asks if he can hold me, etc.).

Also PLEASE don't get defensive. Argue in your head if you must but being defensive is the surest way to escalate the situation. In the early days (and TBH still most days) WH stopped drinking. Like at all. He wanted to be in control in every situation and interaction with me. He's not perfect, and I am extremely sensitive to what I see as him getting defensive, so the escalation still happens, but less often and he is quick to get back into control.

They [BS] need and want touch, the care the company. At the same time they reject it, pull Away or push me away and refuse to accept affection

Keep in mind this rejection is our lizard brain doing the thing it was designed to do: protect us from harm. Tho the scars are emotional, our lizard brain still knows we've been harmed, and after dday it works on overtime to try and protect us from experiencing it again. This is why my response to my WH during triggers is often - become a SAFE partner for me. THAT is the thing I want from him. I want him to fix his shit so he can be a partner who is safe enough for me and my lizard brain to relax more.

I must remember that the anger and the rejection are based on a huge need to reconnect, to feel loved.

I'm not 100% certain I agree, but if this works for you and your BS, then great! Personally, I think the anger and rejection stem from being deeply hurt - for me it's a PRIMAL hurt. I don't think my anger is bc I want to reconnect - it's bc i thought I WAS connected, but my reality was based upon an illusion perpetrated by my WH. IOW, ANYONE is angry when they are defrauded... and having an A is the ultimate (primal) fraud. If someone stole from you, you'd be angry. And it would not be bc you need to reconnect with the thief. IMO, having an A is stealing the BS' very reality.

I do have to work on staying calmer always, not try to argue anything when the flooding is occurring.

This is important. And this would cause me concern in that it's not just when the flooding is occurring. IOW, it's important to distinguish when one is expressing FEELINGS or FACTS.

When one is expressing feelings, there is NO arguing. For example, if I say I'm feeling sad because it's raining, responding with something like "it's not raining, it's only a little sprinkle" is NOT empathetic and is NOT validating. An empathetic response (even if it's a beautiful sunny day) is something like: I understand... I get sad too when the weather isn't what I'd hoped.

Now, in the context of a BS/WS, I think a better response would be something like: I'm sorry that my lies and secret sexual life have caused you to be sad when the weather isn't what you expected. (not a great example, but best I've got off the top of my head).

An awful response in the BS/WS context would be: It's not raining, and I don't understand why you can't see that! (or in A speak, anything that includes or implies the word ONLY, anything that minimizes the pain, anything that questions the BS' reality - even when it looks to the WS to be devoid of any semblance of factual underpinnings).

I'm a BS, but this is something I'm trying to work on as well - not just with WH, but in all aspects of life. And there are times it can be hard, esp when I feel defensive.

Being empathetic and validating another's feelings does not mean that when the conversation is factual, the WS (or anyone) cannot try to set the record straight as to their perception. Example: it's raining. Response: Hmm, it looks to me like it's just a bit of a drizzle. This conversation is not about feelings, but about facts or perception.

I think a WS still needs to tread very lightly when it comes to perceptions - esp about the M or the A (at least until some level of trust and ability to speak about such things calmly is restored). IOW, if the BS says "you spent more time thinking about your AP than me", that is a perception, rooted in a feeling of (perhaps) abandonment (or something else). Responding "no, I didn't" may be factually accurate, but it's not very empathetic, even when the statement doesn't specifically mention any feeling.

Others probably have better responses, but if my WH had said something along the lines of I understand that my A causes you to question where my head was during that time, I'm so sorry that I destroyed your trust by engaging with AP. That would be helpful. Instead, he pretty regularly would (and does) reply: that is not true, or I didn't think about her much at all outside of our conversations or meetings. My problem with the latter is (1) if trust has not been restored, it will just sound like another lie to try and minimize the damage (and if there is ANY scintilla of factual inaccuracy it can turn it all into a big trigger [eg, I have written evidence my WH would initiate communication - so he HAD to be thinking of her "outside" of that in order to initiate the contact]) (2) my brain ca see it as another way in which my reality is being manipulated by my WH, on TOP of the reality busting that occurs just by having an A.

In the moments of most intense flooding, when perhaps you felt so alone, maybe that your mate does not understand you or your pain/anger/resentment

TBH, I don't think it's possible for a WS to understand the depth of the pain of being betrayed by their spouse. If anyone had told me what this is like before dday, I would have said they are lying. Many describe it as worse than the loss of a loved one (even a child). It is exponentially worse than any pain I've ever experienced (and that includes some pretty f*cked up FOO). I did not think it was even possible to hurt this much and still be alive.

Do you feel differently about your mate and their behavior, their helpfulness or lack there of, when you are not flooded?

I suspect that this varies from minute to minute for most BSs, and the WS' work and growth is a big factor. Personally, I just don't see my WH the same as I did before I found out, and I don't know if that will ever return. But I now struggle with his behavior AFTER dday. Many folks on SI will say it, and I wholeheartedly agree - that for those who are willing to consider R, it's not the A that ends the M, it's all the bullshit the WS does AFTER the A that kills it. It is absolutely true for me. IOW, I've come a long way in processing and accepting that the A happened. What gets my goat today has FAR more to do with my WH's continued inability to communicate, lack of empathy, the post dday lies, the lack of the kind of timeline I've begged for since dday, the lack of emotional courage, etc. I don't know who said it, but there's a quote that basically says what defines us is not our failures/bad choices... it is how we respond to them. So if a WS responds with the same selfishness, entitlement, self victimization, minimizing, defensiveness, etc as they embodied during their A, the BS is hard pressed to have any hope that anything can be rebuilt from the ashes of the M that was killed by the A.

I should definitely offer “would you like to turn this off?”

It is usually paralyzing for me when I see or hear something that I know is a trigger. Last time it happened I couldn’t do more than say oh my god and worriedly turned to look at My BS.

About anger. I know there is definitely so very much for BS to be angry. Undeniable. Yet is through our interactions that I have come to see, or BS Let me know when I have failed to show up In the way that they needed it. When BS is rejecting me, runs away, yells and tells me all the most horrible things possible, all that BS wants us to see me not give up, keep reaching, chase, love BS no matter what is thrown at me, to humble myself, to take it all and still be there, to show through my demeanor and behavior and actions that the most important person above anyone is them. Whatever tantrum, insults, hatefulness am I strong enough to stick it out for BS? It’s One thing that I have learned.

I do work still on the empathy. validating statements got as old as the apologies.

Need to do better At not arguing a small point that I believe to be untrue, that is really unimportant within the scope of allllll the problems we actually have. That I created. thank you again for your replies

All the bullshit I did after, has been some of the most damaging things that have made this ordeal seem insurmountable for BS of course.

IC for both of us. Then MC, only when she began to heal and I began to get my head out of my ass and start owning my choices. I never blamed anything on my wife, though my huge issue was continuing to make it out like it was no big deal and we were just friends for 18months.

Hope you guys can make it.

That she will heal and you can have a better marriage in the future.

It would be best you both go through therapy and he gets one that specializes in post infidelity stress disorder. Preferably one that uses the Gottman Method. John and Judith Gottman have written several books and Judith specializes in PISD. There is a book called "Transcending Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" by Dennis Ortman and another good book that is good for both of you is called |After The Affair" by Janis A. Spring. I can tell you as a BS these books have helped me a lot to calm down and figure things out and my WS has listened to them on audible too. There are podcasts out there and don't forget about the SI forum.

The triggers, flashbacks, and memories don't just disappear overnight. Believe me, I wish they did, but you can help be proactive when he goes through them. Sincerely apologize to him over and over again for the hurt you caused him. Give him lots of love and attention. By you reading these books and going through therapy with him it is showing how proactive you are and it convinces him that you are making an effort to repair the damage.

Thank you blue for the books, suggestions and for taking the time to provide me to ur input. I really appreciate it.

Yes all of this will take lots of dedication, being intentional, love, attention and growth! Especially of course on my part.

It seems to me you want to understand why your husband still is flooding without improvement.

If I am correct, I could explain what still pisses me off periodically.

Mine would be the unfairness/injustice. As the WW you got to have a sweeping love affair. Your BS gets to forgive and work through that they haven't had sex with anyone else but you throughout this time.

Then something stupid, like I didn't put my dishes into the dishwasher because I was helping with the kids. My WW gets upset and tells me something about it, then the flame of the injustice wells up.

Something as simple as dishes versus sleeping with other people and being forgiven. Then the BS breathes out rage or swallows it. That injustice is never going away. I hear people on here say they completely forgive, but I don't think that really works as easily as people think. I think the injustice is what the BS holds onto.

When your BS starts to become flooded, look at him, say you are so so sorry and thank him for not leaving. My wife does that and it puts a pin in me most of the time. We talked about that before, that I showed her so much love by staying. It is hard to be a giant D when the person you are mad at talks about how great you are for not striking back.

FYI - All the people who are going to give me the whole, "You believe the world is just/fair." Just stop. That helps no one. This is about emotions, not logic.

Just my take on things.