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OIN,

I don't think so. Both suffered from trauma in childhood and dealt with it in different ways.

My childhood was pretty straightforward with no major issues.

I am a problem solver, a function of my personality and enhanced by my career. I don't believe I need to fix everyone or that everyone can be fixed. I am also a realist.

I am under no allusion that I am the perfect person. I get that I am imperfect. I also understand that self critique is hard.

Okay, then did you have a need to fix you first wife? What drew you to her?

From what little you have posted, your first is very different from your current in terms of personality.

What do/did you find attractive in them? Any commonalities in looks, behaviour, voice, mannerism? They can be very different, as personal tastes change as you mature, but there would usually be at least one non-changing characteristic.

Achilles, when I first went to IC, I could not see her point on things at all. A clear memory I have is spending three visits talking about my exBF. On the fourth visit she said, "Let's talk about you today. What's going on with you?" I stared at her. I said, "Umm, I'm telling you. My life is a mess. He is just messed up." She said, "Yes, that's him. But what about you?" I honestly could not figure out how to answer.

Guess I am saying that your self-analysis is not as accurate as you believe it is. It happens to all of us.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:56 PM, June 3rd (Wednesday)]

Hell no,

I wouldn't have fixed her if I could. She was the antichrist . She inspired hate> Sorry, that's how I feel. She was a high school sweetheart, first love, totally different from second wife.

They are very different. They are nothing alike. Both came from humble backgrounds, one staid humble the other did not. Both did the same thing to me though

I understand, what I don't know about myself could fill volumes.

What I do know about myself could also fill volumes.

The point being I guess is that even though I am F'd up, I still have a decent grip on who I am. Not perfect, but decent

She was the antichrist .

ROFL!

All I can say is that you will need a shedload of counselling. There is only so much an anonymous internet stranger can do.

I will continue to follow your thread, and chime in again when I can be more constructive, or spot a new angle to explore.

RR,

Sorry if I sounded harsh. My first wife caused me a lot of grief. When she left the kids and I, life was good. I had the kids full time and she was not even in my life, so I didn't pursue divorce or anything.

Then a friend told her I could use her abandoning us in divorce. She just shows up and said she was moving back in. I obviously told her she was not but had no legal authority so she did.

That was terrible, as she had no interest in the kids, just protecting herself. So divorce was then fast tracked.

So I get used to her being with AP and at least he was good to the kids. She then dumps him and goes through a series of guys with no stability in the kids lives.

She basically bought the kids affection. Still does it to this day.

So, she brings up strong feelings.

Anyway, sorry if I insulted you.

I have no idea what ROFL means

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 11:51 AM, June 4th (Thursday)]

ROFL = Rolling On the Floor Laughing

If WW1 was the Antichrist would WW2 be Judas Iscariot or would you see her as more like Peter who betrayed Christ 3 times & came back to be forgiven?

Anywayyy... I wonder if you can find it in you to do the 180. This is not to punish her but to help you disengage with her.

Thanks for the translation, totally clueless.

She has betrayed me more than three times but is asking for forgiveness, so...

I have tried the 180 so many times and have not had much success with it. I just can't seem to pull it off.

Sorry if I sounded harsh.

Not at all. I believe all B(etrayed)S(pouses)s are entitled to call their W(ayward/wandering)S(pouse)s whatever they want.

So, she brings up strong feelings.

People like that will always bring up strong feelings, as the betrayal was not only to you, but to your kids, and I think that this is what makes your blood boil. Innocents have been harmed, and that is never a good thing.

You have every right to feel so strongly, but for your own sake (it does nothing good for your blood pressure), let it go, especially if some time has passed.

Anyway, sorry if I insulted you.

I have no idea what ROFL means

No insult taken whatsoever, and as skerzoid explained, I took your description of your WW1 as hilarious. I hope you did not take it that I was minimising your feelings.

She has betrayed me more than three times but is asking for forgiveness, so...

When giving forgiveness, it must not be rushed, or it will be meaningless (like words and promises from a WS). They will just be words with nothing behind them.

I have tried the 180 so many times and have not had much success with it. I just can't seem to pull it off.

Keep at it. For you to make sound decisions, you will need to be of sound mind. The 180 is a tool to help you regain your sanity, it is a defensive tool, not an offensive one (i.e. not used to hurt).

RR,

Good to hear I didn't offend, at least something I didn't do.

She just bought my daughter a house. and while I am happy about that, it hurts that could not do that

at least something I didn't do.

Another thing you did not do was to roll-over and play the role of a doormat.

She just bought my daughter a house. and while I am happy about that, it hurts that could not do that

Parents who buy love from their children will find that it is an empty love. That kind of love does not last, and is conditional.

I also re-read my comment where I started out with ROFL, and can see why you thought I was offended.

As your situation has me quite stumped on how to help you to move forward. I was just going to hang back, so that I do not give advice that would not help you.

As it is, you seem to be on a stable path, and the anxiety seems to have lowered (always a good thing).

As it is, you seem to be on a stable path, and the anxiety seems to have lowered (always a good thing).

Not sure how stable I am, but one thing I noticed is that my mind is not going a hundred MPH anymore.

We have decided to go to the lake every Friday to talk. I ask her questions about the affair and she gives me honest answers. I believe they are honest because she tells me things that she knows will hurt me, and it does, but the truth is important.

This affair seems strange because her boundaries seem strange to me and sex was only important in that it let her know she was desirable and could please a man. She didn't have to get pleasure so much as know she could give it. Not to say she didn't enjoy it but that was not the focus. Many times she got little sexually, in my opinion, out of it.

Most Often the encounter was texts, pictures, touching and a BJ. Seems most encounters lasted mere minutes Seems stupid to me and really shallow, until I look at her history and what she was lacking in herself.

Doesn't make it any better and it still hurts.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:56 PM, June 5th (Friday)]

She didn't have to get pleasure so much as know she could give it. Not to say she didn't enjoy it but that was not the focus. Many times she got little sexually

This is very true. I've been saying it for years. Women's sexuality, many times, is more related to being desired than being pleased. It's dysfunctional but true. From a very young age we learn that our sexuality is very powerful and gets us things--attention, approval, smiles, ego kibbles. I can still remember dirty old men saying such smiley, positive things to me. Men do us favors, give us things, help us, and pretty soon sex is not something you feel, it's something you do. Sad but true.

But how does that relate to me?

I very much wanted to please her. I cared so much she was pleased that she got mad at me and said just relax, sometimes it was just about pleasing me. I wasn't going to give her anything, I already loved her.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 10:29 PM, June 5th (Friday)]

Hi A. Tell me does she lead these actions like talking at the lake. Does she request it? Does she want to do it for both you and her? Or are you dragging her into it.

If you had to say, who is leading the work to recover and rebuild and help heal? You or her?

If you can’t answer that it’s her, then you need to discuss that. And you also need to change your mode of operation. You need to work on your own healing. She needs to work on her why’s, decide if she wants a future with you, find out what your requirements for R would be, and lead the rebuilding process.

I hope you can say it is her taking the lead.

Whose idea were the friday talks? You see where i am going with this. You have control, you decide what you want for yourself, but she needs to be the one to drive the rebuilding.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:25 AM, June 6th (Saturday)]

Brother, all I can offer is communicate, talk and listen.

Respect and just one day at a time.

Buffer

Stevesn,

It was her idea to have the weekly talks at the lake. Dedicated time alone to talk uninterrupted. She even suggested writing down thoughts or questions that come to me so we are sure to discuss them.

We had already talked about her driving the process. After jumping through a lot of hoops, she finally got approval for IC for both of us. We are each going through our list of approved therapists. Must be a lot of stress out there now as many are not accepting new patients.

She is still conducting the job search, I have seen it, but nothing yet.

One thing I have noticed is that she seems calmer now. Hard to explain exactly, but maybe more at peace with herself. Part of it seems to be that she has accepted that she did a horrible thing that hurt me deeply, no more denial. Part of it is that she has done a lot of self reflection and is beginning to understand what was going on with her. Our talks are much more candid and she is much less defensive. She has even opened up to me about the abuse she suffered, how she failed to continue to address it and what affect it had on her.

So, yes she seems to be doing the heavy lifting necessary. We will see if it bears fruit.

Buffer,

Thanks for the encouragement. One day at a time for sure.

I believe they are honest because she tells me things that she knows will hurt me....

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

The revelations that seemed most honest to me were the ones that cast my W in a bad light, the ones in which she said things like:

I did this.

I made that choice.

I told this lie.

Is that what you're talking about?

Sisoon,

yes those type of things. Also when I ask her a question, it may stir up a memory of something she had not told me. Something that is both unflattering to her and is sure to hurt me. Something I would never know about, but she chooses to tell me.