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So we had this text conversation today. What to make of it?

How do you rebuild out of that? Me

Day by day

Brick by brick

Taking the time to reinforce the strength needed for a strong foundation

I don’t feel strong Me

Then lean on me

I feel strong and I feel secure

I feel steady and grounded

How can you feel like that? Me

Because you helped me face my demons

You helped me recognize it

Your love never wavered

I have been freed from some things

Most importantly freed from the affair

You are giving me a shot at reconciliation

That is so important to me

Ok, never thought about it like that Me

You have given me strength and hope

Most importantly your love

Because of all these things I feel freed

I feel open and calm

Able to take on anything

You are handling this much better than me Me

No

I have to be strong and committed to us and the process for this to work

I have to acknowledge every step forward as a small victory

I know that the marathon has just begun but I am all in

Very insightful Me

I am trying very hard

I think about this all the time

I even think about our conversation or interaction from the day before to see if there was anything I could have done or said differently

A little hard to decipher, I tried to copy and paste text messages, but what does everyone think?

would love some waywards to interpret

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:46 PM, June 11th (Thursday)]

Hi A

As I’ve said in the past, it’s good that your WW has stopped the destructive path she was on, halted and has turned and is facing you.

But that it’s only the start of a long journey, the marathon she refers to, that can heal you both and rebuild your relationship.

There are some good words here. Asking you to lean on her and let her bear the brunt for a while is important.

But so far, they are just words. What actions will she take to actually ease your pain.

And what I find missing in these words, and perhaps it’s because you haven’t relayed them to us when she says them, is acknowledgement of the pain you must be feeling. How all this must hurt you.

Did she end up writing you any letters as we discussed? An important one would be her describing what it must have felt like for you when you knew something was wrong between you, when you had to on your own try to discover if indeed she had given herself to another, when you finally found out she was cheating, and when you had to find out from the OBS that your wife had lied and it was actually a 4+ yr affair.

That would be good for her to have to live it herself thru writing about it.

But in this text interaction there isn’t much of that. I’d expect more empathy in her words. Acknowledgement about how awful this must be for you, the man she says she loves and how much it breaks her heart that you have to live thru this destruction she has caused.

And finally, I don’t know if this was totally about seeing the AP, she refers to yesterdays discussion so I assume it might be, but I don’t see any acknowledgement how having to keep him in your lives due to her job, hinders reconciliation and rebuilding between the two of you. I’d expect her to at least mention the awful predicament her actions have put you both in and words towards a plan to get him out of her life forever.

Like many have said, she is showing signs that she wants to make this work and is willing to put in the effort to do so, but we have seen more dedication exhibited from WS’s here on Wayward Side and until she sounds and acts as desperate to rebuild and makes you feel as wanted as they show their BS, we can’t say definitively she’s a True candidate For R.

I hope that helps.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:38 AM, June 12th (Friday)]

Stevesn,

I don't always explain things as thoroughly as I should, leaving everyone to try and fill in the blanks.

Yes she acknowledges my pain and her causing it frequently.

She has a journal she is writing in. She is writing the letters on the topics we discussed. She even just wrote me a letter the other day on how she was feeling about a discussion we had.

And finally, I don’t know if this was totally about seeing the AP, she refers to yesterdays discussion so I assume it might be,

No, she was just referring to in general. She knows even the possibility of contact with him causes me endless grief.

I thought the exchange was positive but I didn't want to get to excited about it, that's why I asked.

IDK ... maybe this is because I'm old ...I don't see how you can recover or R by text.

You cannot show emotion in a text message. Even emojis are ambiguous at best.

Recovery and R are all about emotion. The best use of text messages is to arrange times for talks.

Really - I encourage you to tell your W to minimize texting about life and her A and her recovery to minimize the chance of your misinterpreting what she means - and vice versa.

Hi Achilles,

There are good words there, and I hope they are a true reflection of your wife's thinking now.

I think people in these forums are wary of reading too much into words, tending to favor the adage, "Listen to their actions, not their words".

However, from what you have posted, it does sound like your wife is starting to turn around, and to take responsibility for the affair. So what she has written would be consistent with that.

It sounds like she is writing a lot more you, in greater depth, and I hope that is helping both of you.

I think it is good that she has started posting here too. There are several very good, honest ex-wayward women here, and they are great at offering empathy and suggestions for self-improvement, while stripping away attempts at bullsh*t or delusion. They help people to become honest with themselves, and to recognise what they need to work on.

Things are starting to roll in the right direction, Achilles, and I hope that picks up momentum.

Sisoon,

I agree on the whole text thing. There is no context in the messages and serious conversations can be totally misconstrued. I can't count the number of times it has led to arguments. Sometimes when she is checking in with me from work, that is just how the conversations end up, serious.

M1965,

Thanks for the encouragement. We will see what she is able to get from this site, hopefully she will get good advice and the help she needs.

Ok,

totally changing gears, How do you help someone else when you need help?

Got a text the other night from a buddy's wife. He was in a bad way at work and needed help. I called him that night and did what I could.

The next day my wife and I went out to his house. We drank some beer, told some stories and I tried to give him advice. He is a good friend and I wanted to help him.

How do you help someone else when you need help?

Sorry for the delay in responding. It sounds like just by going there you helped him. And just because you have felt pain yourself doesn’t make you less likely to be able to help him. It probably makes you more understanding.

Did your wife understand his pain for whatever caused it. Afterward did you have a discussion about how awful it was for your pain to be caused by the one person in the world you thought you could lean on and be safe with? It might have been a good opportunity to have a talk like that. Perhaps seeing another in pain could make her understand yours better.

Stevesn,

No worries. I know he was happy to have me over and he seemed to have a good time. I think I am probably better at giving advice than taking it.

Funny you ask about my wife understanding pain. The day after going to my buddy's house, my wife had a few drinks. The original truth serum. I finally saw remorse. Not just what she said, but I could see it in her face. I don't know what changed. She says nothing.

Is it possible she is finally letting him go?

I finally saw remorse. Not just what she said, but I could see it in her face.

Is it possible she is finally letting him go?

These contradict each other. First, because remorse is not a moment. It's a state of mind. Second, the fact that you need to or are asking this question suggests you are not living with a remorseful spouse.

I agree with OIN. She still has a long way to go but this could be the beginning.

Is it possible she is finally letting him go?

While the AP needs to be fully dropped as step 1 on the road to R, I don't think this is your biggest issue right now and will definitely not be an issue once she changes jobs. Your WW has been very comfortable in the victim seat. She's going to need to give it up and accept her role as the perpetrator before R can begin. I hope for your sake this is the start of her doing that because it would be a much bigger asset to R. If OM is still in the picture even in her heart and mind at this point, R would be going no where.

remorse is not a moment. It's a state of mind.

I understand this, I just felt like she was finally letting her guard down and letting me in more.

Your WW has been very comfortable in the victim seat.

Could you expand on this please?

She says she hates AP. When I asked her why, she said because he minimized his role in the affair and told his wife that everything was my wife's fault. I had to point out that she did the same thing to me.

I want to be optimistic, but am still leery of getting burned again since she kept going back to him during the affair.

I don't think I've posted on your thread. There are a lot of posts by you, but almost no meat. Most of your posts are simply short responses to questions of other posters, or a report of things your WW said or did. What stands out to me by far the strongest is that there is almost no coherent statement by you about how you feel. Either you don't know how you feel or, my opinion, you don't want to admit to yourself the truth about how you feel.

To me, the most salient thing you've said in this entire thread was this, in April:

She has commented about nobody knows what she is thinking or anything about her.

Big picture, your WW is obsessively focused on the idea that if you would understand her perspective of the A, that somehow things would magically get better. She is pushy and intrusive, taking you to MC (which the overwhelming weight of opinion here on SI is not a good thing to do in the wake of Dday) and the woods, always intruding, always pressuring YOU to see things from HER perspective. Always trying to draw your gaze away from the forest by obsessively explaining to you each detail of each tree.

I see almost nothing in your thread where SHE tries to understand YOUR trauma. Dude, for about 25% of your marriage (notably, the last 25%) she had a boyfriend at work whom she blew (or more) on a semi-regular basis. How many times did she come home and talk to her children and/or you just an hour or two after having his dick in her mouth?

How many times did she give you and afternooner NSA blow job during that same time frame?

I point that out because the sheer audacity of her underlying assumption -- that the path to healing is YOU understanding HER -- is so utterly narcissistic. The CSA is not an "elephant" in the room. Maybe a mouse. Thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people suffer childhood abuse without blowing another man regularly at work for the last 25% of their marriage.

Yes I get that divorce involves a big financial loss for you and, frankly, I perceive this is your biggest issue. You're trying to twist yourself into an emotional pretzel to stay with her because of the financial hardship if you divorce. If that is your thing, fine, be honest with yourself, detach from her emotionally, and coast through the rest of your life. It's not necessarily a wrong decision, IMO. There are a lot of old married couples doing the same even without infidelity as a factor.

No matter what, I think your issue is that you need to find your own truth and stop trying to understand hers. Your path to healing does not lie in memorizing the details of each tree in the forest of infidelity she decided to plant over the past 5-6 years.

BFTG,

That stung, which I assume was your intent. I am fully aware of what happened during the affair that you so bluntly pointed out.

If you really are interested in how I feel, here it is.

I am crushed that she did this to our family. I am staying, at least for now, because despite the hurt I still love her and that is the biggest consideration for me. I could work out the financial part of divorce.

What I need is for her to understand what allowed her to have the affair so that it can be dealt with and I can be confident that an affair won't happen again. She needs to fix herself. If she can/can't do that, I will have a much better idea of what I want to do. Even if we end up in divorce, I want her to fix herself if she can. She will always be the mother of my children.

So the bottom line is, as coherently as possible, I still love her and am willing to see if it can work.

She says she hates AP. When I asked her why, she said because he minimized his role in the affair and told his wife that everything was my wife's fault. I had to point out that she did the same thing to me.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Victim of the OM. Victim of you when you express your anger. Victim of other people's opinions. Victim of circumstance. There's still very little ownership happening. I doubt OM initiated each and every time and part of his intiating was because your WW was sending off heavy vibes that she wanted to go further.

I am staying, at least for now, because despite the hurt I still love her and that is the biggest consideration for me.

It is common for BS to say this, but in my opinion this is a weakness, not a strength. I do not feel it is healthy or mature to profess love for someone who could do this; it lacks a healthy amount of self-protection that is necessary to make good choices in life. I think it is something to explore.

Loving people and staying with people are entirely different things. We often need to leave people that we love if they are not good to us. You need to remember this.

Love is the absolute bare minimum. See my signature.

Respect, trust, mutual understanding. This is much harder to have and achieve post affair.

Of course she feels fine. She got to have her affair and now you are offering reconciliation. She probably feels like a million bucks. Finally out of her affair and back to her loving husband.

What is she going to DO to make you feel better?

That's what matters. You should lean on her. Tell her your needs for R, and see how high she is willing to jump. In my case it was always just barely off the ground. "Look at me I'm jumping". That should not be enough. You should say jump and she should be out buying a book on how to high jump and taking personal training classes to jump as high as she fucking can.

Love is the absolute bare minimum.

To add one more quick thing, in my view this is why most reconciliations suck. The BS professes love and a longing to keep their spouse, and the WS knows this. The WS does just enough to be deemed acceptable but never enough to create a strong M, and the BS accepts just enough from the WS to enable them to stay married, never pushing for all they need because of fear of losing the M.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 1:50 PM, June 17th (Wednesday)]

Tell her your needs for R, and see how high she is willing to jump. In my case it was always just barely off the ground. "Look at me I'm jumping". That should not be enough. You should say jump and she should be out buying a book on how to high jump and taking personal training classes to jump as high as she fucking can.

Spot on! A good WS isn't just attempting to pass the class. They're striving for a 4.0, going to tutoring sessions, and doing extra credit.

I am fully aware of what happened during the affair that you so bluntly pointed out

Are you? Personally, I think she's lying, even now, about that specific thing. Lying to you, and repeating her lies to us on SI to reinforce them. When have you ever heard of two sexually active adults engaged in a long term sexual affair whose sexual conduct has been limited to intermittent quickie BJ's at work. Like never. This never happens. It defies common sense.

Since I'm being blunt:

She started an EA in 2014 and a PA in 2015 (supposedly)

She lied to you every day for 4+ years about this. 1,500 days (plus or minus) of consecutive lying.

In 2019, you became suspicious, gathered evidence, and confronted. She admitted only to what she thought you knew: one act of fleeting sexual contact, and some period of EA.

In other words, even after you confronted her and demanded answers, she lied. She continued lying for almost another year. 300+ more days of heightened lying.

You reached out to the OBW just a couple of months ago and learned that the A started way back in 2014/2015 and has been ongoing PA pretty much the whole time, with a few lunch breaks. You learned a few more details as well.

You confronted your WW with this and -- surprise -- she has admitted to exactly what she thinks you know. Not a skosh more.

In light of her surgically precise admissions which correspond exactly to what she thinks you know, why on earth would you believe that now, after 2,000+ days of making lying to you her normal, her habit, her accepted reality, she has suddenly changed and is now transparently honest. 2,000 + days making you Plan B. Loving another man first. Instantly, she has an epiphany and all of those deeply instilled emotional patters reverse? Bullshit.

What I need is for her to understand what allowed her to have the affair so that it can be dealt with and I can be confident that an affair won't happen again. She needs to fix herself.

So why are you participating in MC now, even though she's not in IC? What you are doing is the diametric opposite of what needs to be done if that is truly your goal.

The reality of what is happening to you is that she is forcing her agenda, trying to get YOU to see things HER way.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 5:33 AM, June 18th (Thursday)]