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To which she replied?

She said " I Know, I am working on it"

My comment was in the context of a conversation about tearing her old self down, understanding why she did what she did and and building up a new her without the old issues. I little simplified, but the basic idea.

At this point, you are pretty deep into dealing with this...40+ pages.

You have gotten a ton of advice, some good, some maybe not applicable...and you made some decisions.

This is a good time to stop and look at what worked and what didn't. In reading your words, I can see a lot of things that didn't work and you don't seem to be addressing it...specifically, a very soft hands approach to your WW's actions, both prior and after the A. She is clearly dragging her feet and not showing 100% remorse or any true concern that you will actually D her. She fakes it...well...but I don't see true concern on her part.

Why does she have no fear that you will D her or blow up her life? Does she see you as too weak to do it or too unwilling? It can only be one of two things- Capability or Willpower...she things you lack the ability or the willpower.

Thus, why should she step up? What is her motivation? Love...not hardly.

Self examination is a hard pill but you are deep enough in it to see it clearly. Good luck.

WH,

I am deep, very deep, both in thought and this thread.

I did everything wrong after I found out, absolutely everything. WW also did everything wrong.

I have gotten all kinds of advice, some I take to heart and try to apply, and some I ignore. I have been fortunate to have PM's with people I respect and it has helped me tremendously. I am doing a lot better.

Just last week I shocked the MC by saying the brutal truth is I can leave at any time if I feel WW is not where I need her to be. She asked WW how she felt about that and WW said she agreed with that.

As far as self examination, I know I am a flawed person, I will never do everything right, but I am learning and getting better, as is WW. We are not there yet and to be honest, I don't know if I will ever get there. I often wonder if I can truly get to a place where I forgive her. I know I will never forget. I am still willing to give her a chance as I see progress in her. It's not perfect and we still have issues, but there is progress. I will wait and see. If the progress stops or doesn't get to a point I can live with, I am gone. I am progressing in my own way and am now comfortable with it. I am not the lost soul I once was, took me a while, but my eyes are wide open.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 8:42 AM, January 8th (Friday)]

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 8:42 AM, January 8th (Friday)]

Sorry, I want to know how to tell when she is remorseful

I want to know how to tell when she is remorseful

One of the markers of being gaslighted is the feeling of wondering. "Is she? Is she not? What is real?"

The heart knows what it knows. If you're asking yourself this question, then she's not remorseful.

So is there any hope? Am I just pissing in the wind?

I went and looked at the starting date on this thread and considered possible nuanced answers, blah, blah, blah. I decided that in your case, the kindest and most honest answers imo are:

So is there any hope?

No.

Am I just pissing in the wind?

Yes.

You may not think these answers are kind at all, but knowing all that I know, I think they are.

What triggered your question?

Sounds like you’ve been living on hopium too long.

You are the only one keeping yourself in limbo.

What’s it getting you?

So is there any hope? Am I just pissing in the wind?

Hope, there is hope for you, yes, Your future is what you make of it.

Hope for your wife, no, she is honestly an awful human being. I seriously doubt she cares about anything outside of herself.

So is there any hope?

Sure. You can hope as much as you want, for as long as you want, no matter what your wife is or is not doing. That's not a healthy approach, and will certainly lead to more pain, but it is your life, and you can do with it as you please.

Personally, I think once you truly accept your self-worth, your path will become clearer. If you accept less of yourself, you will accept less from your partner. If you accept your real value, then you will not accept less-than from your wife. She will either satisfy your needs, or she will not---and your decisions about moving forward at this point will be easier. I don't know what level of work she has put in since leaving here. Only you know that.

What triggered your question?

I think probably the slow and uneven nature of any progress. I think I unrealistically expected some revelation on her part that would undo longstanding emotional issues caused in part by her not completely addressed CSA.

She has made progress, IC is helping a lot. It is just slow and I get frustrated.

Your entitled to feel frustrated. There is no easy cure here. That you have stuck it out is amazing. Most guys would be long gone by now.

Look, she has spent less time seeking a fix than she did in the “affair.” She has a long long way to go. And she is never going to be normal in your eyes. The question is what you can accept. That you struggle with that central question is understandable. No point in self flagellation. You will get to where you need in your own time.

Nothing is easy in life. I learned that a long time ago. Life is what it is and you deal with it.

That you have stuck it out is amazing.

I don't think it is amazing, it's stupid? Loyal?loving? crazy? or something else. I know why I am sticking this out. It probably doesn't make sense, it doesn't to me from a rational standpoint. But I do it,

What I can accept seems to be fluid and changes daily. When it solidifies I will know my course. Until then I ride the wave.

It is amazing to us outsiders in the sense that you have absorbed so much for so long and still are willing to keep her in your life.

I know this doesn't make any sense to outsiders looking in, hell it doesn't even make sense to me.

Without going to much into it, I knew what I was getting into when we got married. We were very open about our past lives. I knew what she had gone through and what she had done following as a result. I knew what she was all about. Which also means I should have been able to predict what happened and I actually did. I fell in love with her anyway. I thought she was worth it. Our highs together are incredible, our lows obviously are terrible.

I guess I think I owe her since I knew what I was getting into.

Now before everyone nuts up, I believed in her and think there is a good person in there trying to come out. Yeah she hurt me in the worst possible way and I may not be able to get over that. I struggle with that all the time. I see something in her. I get the whole rose colored glasses and all that, so if you are just going to hate, save it.

Anyway that is the short story.

Unless you explicitly agreed to put up with cheating and emotional abuse when you married her, no, you did not sign up for this. If she couldn’t remain faithful to you or be a loving, committed partner because of whatever issues she has, then she shouldn’t have taken vows that couldn’t keep.

What you are doing to yourself is textbook victim blaming. Ask yourself if you would be as cruel to your best friend as you are being to yourself.

You decided you should marry her despite red flags? That was your choice. You decide to stay married to her despite all she has done and all she has continued to do (or not do)? That is also your choice.

But what she does of her own accord and her own free will, or fails to do, even if it causes you pain and endangers the marriage? HER CHOICE, NOT YOURS! Do not take responsibility for it. Most importantly, do not chain yourself to this situation because you feel you *should* have predicted this outcome.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 9:56 AM, February 6th (Saturday)]