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Just Found Out :
Betrayed Husband Part 3

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Browsing41 ( new member #72237) posted at 12:42 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

Ah

Don't you think a polygraph would be better done now in order to help you decide weather or not to reconcile.

posts: 37   ·   registered: Dec. 6th, 2019
id 8591227
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 1:47 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

Poly is not out of consideration but only if I decided to reconcile our marriage.

Yet you have mentioned reconciling several times recently so it is puzzling to many of us why you would delay on a poly. A polygraph will help inform your decision one way or another. It is not everything. But it is one thing, an important data point. You need this information so you’re not trying to decide in a vacuum of important knowledge.

if she can give a convincing answer to this question I would forgive everything on the spot.

Please keep in mind a distinction between forgiveness and reconciliation. They are not the same thing. You can forgive and reconcile. You can forgive and divorce. Forgiveness is separate and it is for you and yourself.

She does talk a lot about “the family” - it’s pretty easy to see she’s talking about the children, thus the tattoo that doesn’t include you.

You’re about to hit empty nest stage in a few short years.

So let me share something: I don’t have as many kids as you do. Oldest is 18 in college and youngest is about to turn 11. I told my WW this summer I wanted a divorce and this was before oldest went to college, so it had not yet sunk in how different things would be with even one child essentially out of the nest (essentially).

It is very different. The sense of “busyness” around the house is drastically diminished and quiet.

In your case the house is about to completely empty of children and then they will be leading young adult lives. Much sooner than you think.

And if you reconcile, it will only be you and her. That’s why the need for her to strip bare all of the lies. All of them.

There is great urgency for this. It’s not something she can get around to eventually or avoid because it is painful.

Only radical honesty and authenticity and transparency will do.

And it must happen now.

Because it will be you and her looking across the kitchen table at each other every morning with no one else in the home.

The quiet of the house will sink in and the thoughts of what happened will be magnified tenfold.

I think this is part of why you see men showing up decades later in pain, with all of this raging back to the surface.

I think people who arrogantly dismiss these men for their pain and look down their nose saying things like “well you just didn’t process the pain” and the like are whistling past the graveyard, perhaps out of fear their own ghosts of adultery will arise to haunt them.

If she isn’t willing or able to offer up radical honesty on a platinum platter, you will begin to see very quickly for yourself why being with her then becomes unworkable.

And the more you try in such a circumstance, the more hollow it will feel.

Think about it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 7:52 AM, September 25th (Friday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8591245
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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 2:40 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

The issue is not binary. It’s not a question of polygraph now or at the time you decide to R.

You can drop the hammer any time you decide. That’s the beauty of it. You do it when you decide you need it. Especially if you get the feeling that WW is getting too comfortable in her narrative.

Get through the rest of the time line and then think about it.

posts: 1211   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 8591264
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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 3:32 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

she said may times that she is willing to answer any question she promised to be honest even if it hurts.

Honestly, how much is your wife's word worth?

She has already lied, minimized, and omitted after being busted - plus she told you she didn't tell you or doesn't want to tell you things because they will hurt you (Read: hurt her).

She isn't going to be completely honest polygraph or no polygraph.

Your best bet to getting the most truth possible is to proceed something like this:

1) Let her confess as much as possible based on general questions

2) Ask her as many very air-tight questions as you can in a second round, basically yes or no and she can "explain" after she answers if you decide to let her.

3) Then you polygraph her on the most burning specific questions and/or to just find out if she has lied to you in the "air-tight" round.

***

She will still get away with a bunch of lies, because there have been so many lies that you don't know to ask about.

Sorry, I know that is harsh, but cheaters will always get away with some lies.

posts: 960   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8591315
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 3:38 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

I agree with faithful man. I’ve always said the poly is one thing among many things that can HELP make a more informed decision.

It’s not a panacea, but rather more something like a prerequisite for getting you out of infidelity and into a better situation no matter what you decide.

Can you delay on a poly? Of course! It’s your life and your decision. But I wouldn’t recommend it. I asked for a poly early on, allowed her to drag her feet and then participated in rug sweeping with her. That’s the worst feeling, man, don’t do it.

Eventually I did get a poly three years after DDAY. Only wish I’d gotten it sooner. That’s all I got, brother. My own experience as a cautionary tale. It’s not projecting to share it with you.

Hope it helps.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 4:10 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

She can't answer your question about why you should believe she wants you now because she won't even be honest with herself in order to answer this. She is sticking to her narrative that she never wanted to leave, and it is completely and totally just not true. I think she thinks if she says it enough,it will become true. It is ludicrous given the information you were given that she would even think you're dumb enough to believe her. She is trying to downplay all of this because it makes her look really bad and minimizing the consequences for her are still her primary focus. From what you've shared, that is painfully obvious. She can't even be humble and selfless enough to give you space when you ask for it.

So based on this, I don't see a lot of hope for her being honest or wanting to find her true why's. She has had weeks to come up with an answer for you or just to summon the courage to be honest and she hasn't because she doesn't want to admit she did plan to leave you and would have if she could have. She isn't even being honest on the one question you want an answer to and it is likely just to save face. Again, not a great indicator or remorse.

posts: 309   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8591348
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ronjs ( member #51741) posted at 6:47 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

A.H.

I still don’t think she really gets what she did to you - betraying you, your devastation, pain and turmoil. The pain of infidelity is sometimes worse than the death of a loved one. She doesn’t get how she has gutted you.

Perhaps she has degrees of self entitlement/ego, arrogance and an almost patronising manner. It’s easy for her to be glib and says things to supposedly please and mollify you. Where are her actions? Where is her brokenness? Not broken because of the disruption of her family, but a brokenness of how she has hurt and damaged you.

I don’t believe a long term, successful reconciliation is possible, unless she fully confesses to her 5 year behaviour. Everything!

A.H. I truly think she has taken you for granted.

Give the pastor, the church friends and her the Biblical quote:

“the truth will set you free.”

She needs to own all this and everything related to it and confess it all to you.

She needs to be ACCOUNTABLE.

Cheers from Downder and God bless you and your children.

Take care!!

posts: 56   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2016   ·   location: Australia
id 8591435
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Westway ( member #71747) posted at 7:09 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

As it is now, your WW has failed to provide the basic necessities for a successful reconciliation... if that is really what she wants.

Transparency.

Consistency.

Honesty.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8591446
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 7:19 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

I kept asking myself, "Why now? You threw me away before, so what's changed?"

Yeap, I asked the same. I even asked her that question she has no answer. In my case, she contemplated an exit, she wasn't happy even before the affair and I'm the same person or even worse, at lease the old me didn't look at her as a damaged good. if she can give a convincing answer to this question I would forgive everything on the spot.

She'll need to sit with that in IC for awhile, but even then, many WS have trouble articulating the answer to that question. IME, the WS has been dissatisfied for quite awhile before they act out. There's some angst going on. The fun and excitement of life has dissipated. And yes, they can sit there for years, utterly conflict avoidant, viewing problems as unsolvable, and instead blaming us wholesale for not being enough rather than looking inward to themselves. They withdraw from connection with us all the while bitterly blaming us for lack of connection.

The cheating patches over all that angst. One would think that it would be uncomfortable for the cheater to live this dual life, that they would want one life or the other. But at that point, they're getting relief from agitation which caused the cheating, so their daily life is full. They still have their real life but they've patched it up with an additional source of external validation and excitement. There's no reason for them to give anything up. They have all they want at that point.

Still, many will engage the "future-faking" fantasy, like trying on new clothes. They talk about it, act like it's real, and it brings a bit more excitement to their encounters. Cheaters in romantic affairs do experience limerence. They think they're in love. But it's NOT real and we see very clearly how shallow the limerence is when DDay occurs and the cheater's real life is threatened. Some, but not all, of cheaters will see this too. Suddenly, there's nothing more important to them than losing the life they had with us. And yes, we come part and parcel with all the trappings of that life, but don't sell yourself short... NO ONE can replace YOU.

Within a month of DDay, my WH could no longer identify with the person he was while he was cheating. He couldn't think of the reasons why he did it and he couldn't imagine a life without me in it. And yes, like everyone else, I'm a package deal. He was about to lose everything; the respect of his children and extended family, half his worldly goods, half his retirement, and ME. I am irreplaceable, even though if you went by his actions and by his future-faking, it would seem that I am not. But I've been with him since he was a teenager. I know more about him than his own mother. I've been there in good times and in bad. I remember dogs we've lost and places we knew and all his inside jokes. I am the ROCK upon which he's built his life.

The problem after an intimate betrayal is that it hurts us at the ego. How could they forget us? How did they not think of us? We were right there in their face every day. How could they not SEE us? Our ego is destroyed. But the reality is that for some WS, they are so caught up in patching over their midlife angst, that they never conceive the fact that they can actually lose us. We have always been there. We will always be there. They're not stupid. They KNOW the potential cost. But it's like cancer... something that happens to other people, not to them.

And then suddenly, it does happen to them. And some, like my WH, snap back to reality like a rubberband that's been overstretched, with no idea what they were thinking and how they had got it all so twisted up. By now though, our egos are flattened. We can't believe that WE are important enough to cause that kind of instant change. Within a month of DDay, all my WH could think about was making things right and somehow keeping me from leaving him.

Of course, I had an absolute right to say, "too little, too late". And I wouldn't have been a bad person for not wanting him back. It doesn't matter what the WS wants at that point. It only matters what WE want. When the chips were down though, I did still want him. That's me, not necessarily you. I'm just trying to give you some info on what R looks like. In order to get past the injury, I had to address my flattened ego. I had to accept, and I mean truly ACCEPT, that his actions were about him and not about me. I had to realize that I really am important, not just as a package deal, but as an irreplaceable person in my WH's life. I had to value ME, and when I did, I could understand why he was so freaked out at the prospect of losing me. I have been his partner in life for more than 30 years. His imagination might have carried him off for awhile, but I AM HIS REALITY. It's the difference between watching a TV horror movie about world-ending earthquakes and actually being IN a really bad earthquake. Suddenly, his world was caving in. I am that world.

It's hard to come back from a flattened ego. It's hard to look at yourself, separate from the things you bring to the marriage, and realize that you have REAL VALUE. But the problem isn't what SHE sees in you, the problem is what YOU see in you. You're not Mr. Perfect, but YOU are irreplaceable. No one else can be you. It's okay for you to climb down off your own back and realize that the reason your WW wants to fight for you is that you are WORTH fighting for.

The ego can be a fragile thing. But she's not the one who can build it back up because she's not the one who destroyed it. We do that to ourselves when we're confronted by the actions of others which appear to spurn us. We turn that hurt in on ourselves and blast our own self-worth to bits. You didn't MAKE her cheat and you couldn't have stopped it. She did it for her own reasons which had nothing to do with you and everything to do with the angst and agitation with which she viewed her life. But nothing anyone else says or does can determine our self-worth. They keyword there is "self". WE determine our own value. Once you really understand that your WW's cheating wasn't about you, you can stop tearing yourself down and begin to see how truly valuable and irreplaceable you are.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7089   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8591453
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 10:32 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

Is this your best life, AHGuy? Is life with her the best you can really do, after all this?

Just think you should be asking yourself these kinds of questions. The answers will have to come from you.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
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 AHGuy (original poster member #74925) posted at 2:58 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

Is this your best life, AHGuy? Is life with her the best you can really do, after all this?

I guess you meant if reconciling with her would be my best choice for my life. right Thumos?

if that's your question, I would say yes, if we can be happy again and love each other again and if I'm able to forgive and move on and if she can be the honest caring wife she once was, I would rather be with her. because we share so many things. maybe I'm just not ready to start all over again.

the question is, Can I forgive and move on from the betrayal? can she be the honest caring wife she once was? and is 6 months really enough to have an answer?

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2020
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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 3:17 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

I think that trying is worth it in your case. And I do think 6 months, going forward from now, is enough time to decide what is what. If in that 6 months she has not deeply embraced the mindfulness, empathy, ownership, contrition, empathy and the things that you need to see and hear, you may still decide to stay, but it should be with the understanding that timelines for R may be less important to you than the hope and the journey to R.

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 3:24 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

the question is, Can I forgive and move on from the betrayal? can she be the honest caring wife she once was? and is 6 months really enough to have an answer?

Six months will give you some answers. And based on what you have written about yourself, will most likely be a long enough time for you to make your next move.

But guess what? Nothing has to be permanent. Yes, I am the type of person that believes that attempting reconciliation means that I am fully committing. I'm not leaving one foot out the door for a rapid escape. That is what this time is for----to see if she is a good candidate for R. Once I commit to R, I'm going to go into it as equal a partnership as I can allow. I'm not hanging the Sword of Damocles over her head.

And what if your wife reverts back to bad habits or poor boundaries? Then you ALWAYS have the ability to end your marriage at any time....as does she. If the marriage does not survive this, for whatever reason(s), what you lost is the time and effort that you put into reconciling. But at least you knew that from the very start.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

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Sharkman ( member #56818) posted at 3:31 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

AH - your most recent questions are the tough ones. They've taken a lot to get to this point and for that you should be commended. The answers for you are unfortunately something that you need to come up with. This is where things get murky, and why it's so critical to have a therapist. Therapy is really nothing than paying an educated person to be a sounding board, which is what you need right now.

You'll get some insight from us, to be sure, collective experience is a useful tool but it shouldn't be your only tool.

posts: 1788   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2017
id 8592101
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KingofNothing ( member #71775) posted at 3:42 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

I guess you meant if reconciling with her would be my best choice for my life. right Thumos?

if that's your question, I would say yes, if we can be happy again and love each other again and if I'm able to forgive and move on and if she can be the honest caring wife she once was, I would rather be with her. because we share so many things. maybe I'm just not ready to start all over again.

the question is, Can I forgive and move on from the betrayal? can she be the honest caring wife she once was? and is 6 months really enough to have an answer?

A viable response. I would caution you that it might be far too soon to tell if the leopard can change its spots yet. I would live apart from her until you can be sure of anything. One consistent theme I've seen from BS on here is that when they rush the reconciliation and treat it as the only viable way out of adultery, they usually regret it. There's a lot of work, a lot of growing to be done on her part, before you should even consider it. Just my .02, worth what you paid for it.

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
----------------------------------
“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 799   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8592109
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faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 3:56 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

the question is, Can I forgive and move on from the betrayal? can she be the honest caring wife she once was? and is 6 months really enough to have an answer?

Then it is probably a good idea that you know as much as possible, what you are contemplating forgiving. It appears to me that has been a big sticking point with you AHguy.

I'm not sure you really want the WHOLE story - and I get it. But not knowing as much of that story as possible is one of the main factors that lead to rotten reconciliations.

One of the other big factors that lead to rotten reconciliations are cheaters who never face up to the truth of their actions to the betrayed spouse, and don't truly reform their behavior.

I suggest you read up on those situations, there have been a number of threads about that floating around.

posts: 960   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8592114
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 4:03 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

I guess you meant if reconciling with her would be my best choice for my life. right Thumos?

That’s what I meant, yes. I also meant that I firmly believe you can have the same quality or better relationship with another woman who will love you back and as a bonus has never betrayed you in this awful horrific way.

That doesn’t mean you’ll want to do that, but I do believe that can be had for you if you want it.

I also meant that you should be asking other hard questions about what your wife REALLY brings to the table that is a value add for the rest of your life. What are the qualities that, absent her betrayal, you couldn’t get somewhere else?

Only you can answer this.

I felt as you do right after DDAY. Altho I also felt torn in two because my heart was also saying it was a dealbreaker.

Then my head cleared in the years after and I resolved that tension.

I’m hoping the best for you. A poster named “But for the grace” often asks you to imagine the person staring back in the mirror a year from now or ten years from now.

It’s a good framing device

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:21 AM, September 28th (Monday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8592116
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 4:16 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

One consistent theme I've seen from BS on here is that when they rush the reconciliation and treat it as the only viable way out of adultery, they usually regret it.

This is what I did, AHGuy, and it’s why I’m so passionate about warning newly betrayed husbands. I’m not saying you and I are the same people. I’m saying these various situations seem to follow remarkably similar patterns, so warnings and caution are in order.

If you truly think you can reconcile, then who am I to dissuade you? That’s your call.

But doing it with a WW who regrets her actions but isn’t remorseful, who hasn’t really confronted her demons and isn’t really rooting out the deep problems and is not sussing out the truth with you is a recipe for a failed reconciliation.

That’s limbo and it is hellish.

You don’t know the truth. You only know part of it. Like others I understand not wanting to know everything, but at some level you have to be asking yourself how you could really love in contentment with someone who lived a secret life apart from you for six long years — because you’re too smart and if you avoid the truth (of which you only know a fraction) it will come back to haunt you.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:26 AM, September 28th (Monday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8592119
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 4:18 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

This is where things get murky, and why it's so critical to have a therapist. Therapy is really nothing than paying an educated person to be a sounding board, which is what you need right now.

Good advice. You need a betrayal trauma specialist

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8592121
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Charliedeltabrav ( member #54068) posted at 5:24 PM on Monday, September 28th, 2020

AH,,

I’ve been following your story since day one.. You’ve gotten some great advice along the way and it’s all meant to get you out from under the crushing boulder that is infidelity .

I’m here to echo what Thumos is saying , being in Limbo is a hellish way to live and will rip at the very core of your soul and turn you into someone you won’t even recognize..

I was in your shoes 17 years ago, I stayed for the kids and I was comfortable giving it another shot .. It was by far the worst decision I ever made, I was back in your shoes 12 years later.

I was older and wiser and at 45 I was not about to give it another shot. But I have 12 years of my life that can never be replaced and that has been the hardest thing to get over ... Time is not replaceable .

Cheating was always a dealbreaker for me and I knew it, I just didn’t have the will to start over and fear of the unknown kept me shackled to a marriage that was over the first time my XW cheated .

It’s been five years since I divorced and I’ve not wasted one single minute regretting it.

I’m now remarried to a woman that loves me dearly and has helped to put me back together .. Time heals most wounds but the scars remain.

DD # 1 2003
DD # 2 2014
DS 24, DD1 22 , DD2 21
Divorced 8/15

posts: 201   ·   registered: Jul. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Tn
id 8592134
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