Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: TheFog

Just Found Out :
Betrayed Husband Part 3

This Topic is Archived
default

faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 7:00 PM on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2020

AHguy - here is my take.

If you are considering reconciliation and you might be haunted by detailed mind-movies of what your wife did with the sleazebag - especially considering she already stated in a note that she did sexual things with him that she did not do with you - then ask for all the details.

You need to know if you can live with "what she did" or the mind-movies will eat you alive.

***

If you are leaning toward divorce but you might still be haunted by mind movies OR you are on the fence because you you have doubts that she went so far as to make reconciliation impossible - then ask for all the details so you can feel comfortable that you made the right decision for you.

***

If you are the type of guy who can chalk it up like "they fucked and that's enough", then don't ask for the details, whether you decide to reconcile or divorce.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 2:57 PM, September 23rd (Wednesday)]

posts: 960   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8590731
default

 AHGuy (original poster member #74925) posted at 11:56 PM on Wednesday, September 23rd, 2020

Details?

I don't think I'm looking for the glory details of her sex, I just want to know how she acted and what she did during that time.

Today she had her first IC, the goal is for her to know how she feels why she strayed and what she wants.

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2020
id 8590789
default

thatbpguy ( member #58540) posted at 12:23 AM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

Details?

I don't think I'm looking for the glory details of her sex, I just want to know how she acted and what she did during that time.

Today she had her first IC, the goal is for her to know how she feels why she strayed and what she wants.

Stay the path. I wanted details from her first betrayal, but not the next two. I hope you're taking good care of you and trying to find time for some fun.

ME: BH Her: WW DDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I left; Divorced Remarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4480   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8590794
default

Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 12:54 AM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

Hey brother;

Details?

I don't think I'm looking for the glory details of her sex, I just want to know how she acted and what she did during that time.

Today she had her first IC, the goal is for her to know how she feels why she strayed and what she wants.

Hope it goes well for her. That way she can only help you heal as well. Remember: good for her means good for you! Bad for her may be a eye opener only.

One day at a time, god when do they get better?

Buffer

posts: 1318   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8590800
default

longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 1:59 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

How are your kids health wise?

So are you toying with R? How are you feeling about it? You say she is finally in IC among other things to find out what she wants.

I thought it was pretty clear that she wants you, her family, and for what you used to have.

Hope you are getting more sleep and beginning to find peace.

posts: 1211   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 8590899
default

 AHGuy (original poster member #74925) posted at 3:07 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

How are your kids health wise?

thanks for asking we are all doing very good. we feel normal no fever or problem breathing, except that my youngest son still can't smell or taste. we will go for a retest sometimes next week.

So are you toying with R? How are you feeling about it?

Yes I'm considering the possibility to R but not guarantying anything. I gave myself till the end of March 2021 to know for sure. there are many factors that will go into that decision and I'm working with a friend to determine a path to get there.

First, she has to want it and make sure that she wants me and the family , I'm not sure is this 6 months will be enough for her to prove that but we will see. Second, I need to see how I will fee 6 month from now. and the most important part is I need to make sure that there is such a thing as "recovering from an affair" some the stories here of people struggling 4, 10 and even 25 years later are scary. I'm limitting my contact with her to help clearing my head, if by march I decide to leave her I will file immediately. there other things that I need to figure out if I divorce her which I haven't even started preparing myself to it.

You say she is finally in IC among other things to find out what she wants.

I thought it was pretty clear that she wants you, her family, and for what you used to have.

that's what she says, she insists that she never wanted to leave the family. During my conversation with her in front of the pastor I asked how can she really love me if she had planned to leave me even before the A, how can I be sure that that's what she wants. The pastor said it will be verified by IC.

so she keeps saying that she wants to be with me, she even texted that she wished she had the COVID so she can quarantine with us.

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2020
id 8590922
default

faithfulman ( member #66002) posted at 3:51 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

that's what she says, she insists that she never wanted to leave the family.

The pastor said it will be verified by IC.

There is literally nobody who can verify this except for your wife.

And this information resides within her heart.

You? You only have her word to rely on.

I suggest you decide whether you were in her plans based on her actions and communications that you know of that she never wanted you to hear. Also information like the tattoo where you weren't included.

Everything she tells you directly will be have spin applied to achieve her current wishes.

posts: 960   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8590936
default

The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 4:19 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

AH,

Hopefully you are recovering from the dreaded Coronavirus.

I want to just add my two cents based on experience. My H planned to D me. Told me numerous times he wanted a D during his EA. His was a typical mid life crisis affair.

At dday2 however he had turned it around. That afternoon he walked in the door and out of the blue demanded a D. I asked him why. He refused to answer. 48 hours prior he admitted to our counselor he was committed to me & marriage. (I had no idea he was still cheating so obviously that explained everything).

The point is that at the time he ended it (later the same day - dday2) it was too late. I was curious and decided I needed to save myself and my own sanity. So I told him that I was D him.

We survived it. Somehow he managed to make amends and we are happily reconciled. Do I get bothered by him every so often and want to punch him for what he put me through? Yes absolutely every so often that thought comes to mind.

It took me years to truly forgive him however.

But it took me standing up to him to make him realize HE needed to change. HE needed to turn this around on his own.

Luckily for him he did. I think your decision to give it until March 2021 is very fair. And she hopefully is thankful for the opportunity and use that time wisely.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 11 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 14633   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8590945
default

ramius ( member #44750) posted at 9:50 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

The pastor said it will be verified by IC.

Unless her IC is a human lie detector, there is now way they can confirm that.

Of course she wants you and the family back. Her rich life raft drifted away.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1656   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8591043
default

Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 10:04 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

that's what she says, she insists that she never wanted to leave the family.

And what else would she say NOW? I mean, come on.

The fact is you know what her actions and words were for TWO YEARS before this and they were consistent: she wanted the OM and she wanted and planned to leave you for him.

Her words now are meaningless. She can insist all she wants; liars insist all the time. They are still liars.

Aristotle said “we are what we repeatedly do.”

If you do something consistently for two years then that’s who you are.

And you don’t even know what she was up to the four years before the affair you do know about — because you really haven’t asked, nor have you asked for a polygraph.

So you only have her words to rely on, which are not reliable.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:15 PM, September 24th (Thursday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8591050
default

Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 10:05 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

some the stories here of people struggling 4, 10 and even 25 years later are scary.

And most recently 40 years later!

You should be scared. Pay attention to what they are saying closely.

And just a reminder because it needs to be repeated: the ONLY reason you know about your wife’s true nature now is because the OBS hired a PI and forced it out in the open.

You knew nothing about it.

Otherwise the affair would still be going on, she would still be cuckolding you and laughing up her sleeve about it, and she would still be putting plans in place for leaving you.

The ONLY thing that changed was NOT HER, but the circumstances that enabled her to delve into her true nature.

That’s the only difference between then and now.

Do you see this? Her true character has been revealed and unmasked under significant pressure.

Otherwise, there is no difference between when she was concealing her true nature and when it became known.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:58 PM, September 24th (Thursday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4598   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8591052
default

steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 11:42 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

The pastor said it will be verified by IC.

Why is the pastor answering for her? How can he know the IC can verify that? Can the IC do a test that confirms that now I love my husband? Then why didn't you love him before? Is that a fluid condition that you can flow to love, not love, love, not love, love?

There's been a discussion on the various types of love from eros to agape. Even if the various levels of love are accepted it's still questionable to me if, as some claim, the cheater loved their BS in some way even when cheating. I don't care if someone loved my as they were cheating (and I question the premise). What kind of love is that? You protect and care for what you love. The cheater didn't.

BH(me)72(now); XWW 64; M 42 yrsDDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW 4 years; "dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, liesSeparated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4720   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8591071
default

Westway ( member #71747) posted at 11:56 PM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie."

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's PR man said that. And this is exactly what your WW is doing. She thinks that if she keeps saying that she never intended to leave the marriage or you, and is she says it enough, that you and the counselors and pastor will eventually forget that she had planned to leave you even before her affair started.

She is rewriting history, and this is another tactic that cheaters use to manipulate their spouses. She is still deep in the fog.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8591074
default

Kaliber ( member #74046) posted at 2:24 AM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie."

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's PR man said that. And this is exactly what your WW is doing. She thinks that if she keeps saying that she never intended to leave the marriage or you, and is she says it enough, that you and the counselors and pastor will eventually forget that she had planned to leave you even before her affair started.

She is rewriting history, and this is another tactic that cheaters use to manipulate their spouses. She is still deep in the fog.

She keeps saying that she never intended to leave the marriage or you.... A polygraph can help here?

[This message edited by Kaliber at 8:25 PM, September 24th (Thursday)]

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

posts: 145   ·   registered: Mar. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Germany
id 8591115
default

ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 4:25 AM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

Second, I need to see how I will fee 6 month from now. and the most important part is I need to make sure that there is such a thing as "recovering from an affair" some the stories here of people struggling 4, 10 and even 25 years later are scary.

People can and do truly recover after infidelity. That's not to say recovery just falls into one's lap. It doesn't. We have to work for it. We have to be proactive in our healing. We have to reach a state of acceptance for what happened and we have to also accept that it was never about us. For me, somewhere between year four and year five, I realized I was okay. As hard as my WH's betrayal had been (and man, I was wrecked, bug meets windshield wrecked), but still, it just came to me one day that the pain of infidelity wasn't a part of my daily life any more. I had other problems, but they were garden-variety, everyday, solvable, life problems.

I'm going to re-post something I wrote for another member and maybe tweak it a bit, but it'll give you a bit of a look into some things which helped me...

Typical healing from this kind of intimate betrayal is two to five YEARS, and actually, I found the second year a bit harder because by then, the limerence of HB begins to fade and depression can settle in. The grieving process is very much akin to grieving a death, almost like your spouse had died. The person you knew is gone, at least in terms of how your brain recognized her. Now there's this new person, still the same but different too. It's weird and hard to describe, but the Five Stages of Grief demand their due... denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. They don't always come in order and they repeat themselves over and over until finally some stage of acceptance will stick.

In terms of the relationship, you'll most likely find yourself back on the fence at odd times, wondering what your life might be like if you just pulled the plug on the marriage. Ride that out. Give it its due. You CAN still change your mind, and there's FREEDOM in knowing that. It's important that you take ownership of the space you choose to live in. Whether that be R or D, or simply "trying" to accomplish one or the other, you can let go of that horrible sense of victimization by realizing that right now... YOU have agency. You are in charge of your choices. You've planted your feet where you want to be (at least for the moment) and that choice was a CONSCIOUS one. When you own it, you feel your freedom.

Nothing you did (or didn't do) could cause your WW to cheat on you. This truth MUST be accepted. A cheater cheats because she has a defect in character, a hole where her stated values don't align with her actual deeds. Not everyone can throw their values aside and say "yes" to that kind of perfidy. That's on her. It has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Part of a healthy reconciliation is allowing your WS to take full ownership of their transgressions. They can't fix what they won't accept, right? Makes sense?

So why are YOU internalizing something you had no control over? You didn't do it. You didn't cause it. It was ALREADY there, always lurking, because the beliefs she thought she had in her core values were weak and permeable. You have no influence on whether another person truly accepts and protects the things they claim to believe in. If she truly valued her beliefs in things like honesty, fidelity, friendship, she would have built boundaries around those things. When a person really honors their own core values, you can't make them cheat with a gun to their head.

Here's the thing though, by continuing to try and take ownership of someone else's choices, we are subconsciously attempting to control them. If we can make it about us instead of them, we have sway over it and can maybe prevent the hurt from happening again. We can make changes which will guarantee outcomes, right? Wrong. It's just a subconscious control mechanism that our brains default to when things are truly beyond our ability to manipulate. We can't MAKE other people honor their own values.

I kept asking myself, "Why now? You threw me away before, so what's changed?"

For the truly repentant cheater, it's because they FINALLY understood that they could really lose us. This goes back to earlier in the post where we accept that it's not about us. Nothing we did, nothing we said, caused the cheating. It wasn't in response to us. We're non-entities in the cheating choice. And THAT is what's so hard for us to contemplate. How can they look us in the face every day and not be reminded that we exist? How can they twist up their thinking until we're merely an impediment, or worse, someone who doesn't deserve better treatment? And the answer of course, is that there is nothing in their character which disallows mental gymnastics and compartmentalization to get what they want. It always tracks back to character, hers and not yours.

Of course, the unrepentant cheater is just crying crocodile tears to keep their home sitch going. The difference can be hard to spot, but ultimately is revealed by what exactly the WS is willing to do to remediate that broken character and whether they get it done. Time reveals the truth.

People will argue this point, but I think the truth of the matter is that when we take our WS back, they do indeed "get away with it"... and we have to let them, because that's part and parcel with the decision to take them back. Some will say that the difficult, introspective work a WS must accomplish, the pain of carrying the weight of their sins, knowing the anguish they've caused, means they aren't "getting away with it". But nothing they go through equals the pain they've caused to their BS. This is often an existential crisis, an abandonment which makes us question EVERYTHING in lives, the nature of love, the strength of relationship, even the existence of a caring God. They aren't traumatized by their own chosen actions. Maybe they experience some kind of partial trauma at the realization they aren't who they thought they were, but it's NOT the same.

The WS has no ability to pay us back for what we've gone through. No coin with value to equal the cost of their transgression. The best that we can do, once we've determined that the WS is truly repentant and willing (as well as capable) of remediating their broken character.. is to "write off" the balance of the damages. We can treat it like an accounting problem. Some of the WS's actions will mitigate their debt, things like accountability and character remediation, and those things can knock down the balance. But because NOTHING they can ever do will eliminate the debt, we MUST eventually release it in order to normalize the marriage. In marriage, we want two healthy, EQUAL partners. That's the goal... but it's a long time in coming. This concept of "writing off the debt" is for later, once you're sure of the personal healing she's accomplished and the changes in character she's made... and also once you're sure that you really want to stay. You're still early days. Right now you're still at the "trying for reconciliation" stage. It's not here yet.

Anyway, there are some things to think about. Again, not so much for influencing as educating, so you know what worked for someone else and can make determinations about what might work for you.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 10:30 PM, September 24th (Thursday)]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs); Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 10

posts: 7097   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8591135
default

ramius ( member #44750) posted at 6:22 AM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie."

Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's PR man said that. And this is exactly what your WW is doing. She thinks that if she keeps saying that she never intended to leave the marriage or you, and is she says it enough, that you and the counselors and pastor will eventually forget that she had planned to leave you even before her affair started.

She is rewriting history, and this is another tactic that cheaters use to manipulate their spouses. She is still deep in the fog.

Spot on.

Actually she has probably already re-written her affair history in her head. She may actually believe, now, that she was not going to leave, despite all evidence to the contrary. This is what makes good liars so convincing....they believe their own bullshit.

Cheaters are capable of sincerely believing, whatever is in their own best interest, at any given moment. If their circumstances change, and consequences are looming, then viola, they can switch beliefs/positions on demand. With zero conflict. Zero cognitive dissonance.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1656   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8591159
default

DictumVeritas ( member #74087) posted at 6:37 AM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

Cheaters are capable of sincerely believing, whatever is in their own best interest, at any given moment. If their circumstances change, and consequences are looming, then viola, they can switch beliefs/positions on demand. With zero conflict. Zero cognitive dissonance.

I agree with this 100%. I have to add, that switching from a position where they can discard you to you being central to their very existence to being ambivalent to your impact in their lives, back to blame-shifting and possibly back to needing the or another AP is par for the coarse.

I am thinking of starting a new thread of my own because I have just suffered a tremendous setback with my own WW and that is just the impact of a short-lived EA, but highlighted character traits that makes me wonder if staying after that is even worth it.

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

posts: 285   ·   registered: Mar. 22nd, 2020   ·   location: South-Africa
id 8591160
default

ronjs ( member #51741) posted at 9:57 AM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

hi A.H.

You are dealing with a huge unknown - I sadly think, you are in denial.

Her change in life occurred 5 years ago. There are many significant warning signs, that you appear to not want to know. Serious warning signs! It’s your right to know. To know what you are really dealing with.

Would you give a quote/make a decision about a large job, without knowing important facts?

Don’t listen anymore, to the pastor’s ignorant advice. Part of my 40 year professional career, included intensive counselling of people, with a diversity of problems. The cost of getting it wrong - could involve a person’s life! The more facts, the better. Also the ability to read body language, closely and accurately.

If you don’t want to make a very serious mistake, in your final decision, you must know as much as you can!

Consider polygraphs, also a voice lie detection test (please look this up on the Internet).

God bless you and your children A.H.

Cheers from Downunder.

posts: 56   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2016   ·   location: Australia
id 8591204
default

Browsing41 ( new member #72237) posted at 12:30 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

She insist she never wanted to leave the family.

I think this is partially true. It appears that she wanted to leave just you, and she could not bring herself to do that only because of the children. Those are her words that you were never supposed to hear.

Even after DD a lot of talk revolves about what she did to The Family. I do get that, but the thing is that your children are very close to moving on and having families of their own. I just think it should be more about what she did to You and you only.

In her mind leaving you would have been the same as leaving the family. This is going to change really soon and you have to wonder if her feelings will suddenly change when she realizes that she can leave just you without having leaving the rest of the family.

I'm not trying to steer you away from reconcile. Just pointing out some of the things that I would be most concerned with and would want figure out before reconcile.

[This message edited by Browsing41 at 6:36 AM, September 25th (Friday)]

posts: 37   ·   registered: Dec. 6th, 2019
id 8591222
default

 AHGuy (original poster member #74925) posted at 12:33 PM on Friday, September 25th, 2020

the ONLY reason you know about your wife’s true nature now is because the OBS hired a PI and forced it out in the open.

You knew nothing about it.

Otherwise the affair would still be going on, she would still be cuckolding you and laughing up her sleeve about it, and she would still be putting plans in place for leaving you.

Thumos, that's just the sad truth. the PI exposed the A and although they ended it then, I'm pretty sure it would have resumed if OBS didn't let me know. Because she had tried to break it off with him but only for few days before he easily was able to convince her to start it back up.

ChamomileTea, like always your input is so valuable and appreciated.

I kept asking myself, "Why now? You threw me away before, so what's changed?"

Yeap, I asked the same. I even asked her that question she has no answer. In my case, she contemplated an exit, she wasn't happy even before the affair and I'm the same person or even worse, at lease the old me didn't look at her as a damaged good. if she can give a convincing answer to this question I would forgive everything on the spot.

You are dealing with a huge unknown - I sadly think, you are in denial.

Her change in life occurred 5 years ago. There are many significant warning signs, that you appear to not want to know. Serious warning signs! It’s your right to know. To know what you are really dealing with.

Ronjs, Thank you for this, I, too, sadly admit that I've always been in denial. it hurt me when I realized that I ignored all the clear signs during her affair. I was denying that we had problems, denying that we grew disconnected. denying that she was acting different. Maybe I was too arrogant to admit that I was loosing control. my sister in-law once told me that she couldn't believe that I didn't see it and she was right. So denial isn't something new to me. but I'm trying to change that. Lot was said here about asking the tough questions and polygraph, just to explain my stand on this. I don't fear asking the question I just haven't had enough occasions to do so. she said may times that she is willing to answer any question she promised to be honest even if it hurts. Poly is not out of consideration but only if I decided to reconcile our marriage.

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2020
id 8591223
This Topic is Archived
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20250404a 2002-2025 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy