SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My original post is here: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=642505&HL=72159

So,today my wife goes into work in the morning. She calls around 11am to ask how the Zoom went with nursery, then messages around lunch to tell me she's leaving work. About an hour later, she messages again, telling me she's been held up at work. Well, as it happens, she hadn't been held up at work at all -- a friend was coming by the house to pick up a power tool I'd borrowed and, he'd gone via the local drive-thru McDonald's. Who did he see arrive there while he was waiting? You guessed it -- my wife (who was supposedly at work). My friend has my back (he knows about the affair) and, hung around to see if she was alone. It seems she stayed the whole time by herself and, just ate her lunch.

I've confronted my wife and, told her how I know. She says she's ashamed of sometimes craving junk food and, didn't want me to know. I've read the riot act given her past indiscretions and, the need for trust.

I really don't know what to do. How can I trust when my wife can't even disclose what she wants for lunch and, where she is?! I already knew this about her (which she knows!) because I trawled through her bank transactions for the time period around her affair. Right now I'm thinking,if it weren't for my own selfish need to be around the children as much as possible, I'd be gone...

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 2:50 PM, October 2nd (Friday)]

Is she in IC? She needs to get to the root of why she lies - even about little things. It's likely due to shame, but unless this gets addressed, she will never stop - it's part of who she is unfortunately.

Hey, thanks for the response. No, she's not in IC. I said today that she should go, specifically to address the lies. She's been to IC in the past but, not for this. Sadly, I fear you're right. I sometimes wonder if it's inherited in a way -- her mother (to my horror) advised when my first son was born -- to shut him in a room and let him cry if it will allow my wife to get some sleep! I've seen this in her sisters too...unless it's confirmation bias on my part.

This has triggered so severely that I don't want to sleep in the same bed as her tonight...

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 3:18 PM, October 2nd (Friday)]

The lies are the worst. I have no advise except that you need to set your boundaries and what you need for R. If that is she goes to IC and no more lies, then so be it. (It’s a learning curve for her, but you need to see progress and correction when she does lie). But don’t set boundaries you aren’t willing to hold.

The lies are as bad as the A— it points out how flawed our spouses were and how much we tolerated. Some of the WS in the wayward forum have tackled this head on and have changed and no longer lie— so it can be done if the WS wants to address this in themselves.

Sorry Pheonix, I know it hurts.

I would not say it is inherited as much as it is a generational/learned behavior. She probably had to lie as a child to not get in trouble/not get shamed. Her parent(s) likely did this as well.

The shame cycle is awful - I hope she gets the help she needs.

Yes, I didn't mean inherited from a strictly genetic sense ;-)

Given the context, it's obviously not cool to lie about it.

But I do have to say, fast food is one of my guilty pleasures, too, and I'm ashamed to admit it at times. I can identify with her being ashamed to tell you she's eating McDonald's!

If she hadn't cheated on you and betrayed you, I guess this little lie would seem different.

But then again, that's not the context is it?!

You have every right to be concerned and upset.

Someone who is deep in the trust hole needs to do everything -- EVERYTHING -- they can to stop digging and start filling that hole up.

The problem isn't that she wanted a Big Mac and didn't want to tell you about it. It's that she is carrying out the same deceptive behavior that led to her adultery in the first place.

I find myself wondering if this is the tip of a larger issue. I get you are upset, but you seem so angry. To the point of contemplating ending the marriage.

Is there some other dynamic in play? Like maybe you regret giving her R?

Or are there other triggers in play?

Are you holding in pentup frustration? Is this a one time event or one of many examples of disrespect?

What is bothering you the most? Her lie, or something else?

Thanks all.

Lying is the issue. When we discussed this last year, I couldn't emphasise more clearly that lies were a no-go, not even little ones. She agreed and, we had several discussions about integrity and, authenticity.

As a result of this incident, I have numerous questions, for example:

- How long has she been doing this?

- Where is the line? (does she lie in order to do other stuff? What is a permissable lie to her? What isn't?)

- Was she supposed to meet someone? (couldn't they make it?)

- If she can lie about this then, how can I trust what she told me about the affair?

- As promised, will she tell me if the AP makes contact or, if she sees him at work? (they don't work in the same building but there's a chance they could meet at a future training event).

Some time ago she told me she was going to be the 'best wife possible' (something I didn't ask for) but, I really don't see the effort and, wonder if she's sticking around for familiarity/comfort or, the children. She says she isn't but, again, what to believe?

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 3:53 AM, October 3rd (Saturday)]

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[This message edited by BSPheonix at 3:52 AM, October 3rd (Saturday)]

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[This message edited by BSPheonix at 3:51 AM, October 3rd (Saturday)]

The fact that she called to lie is interesting. Why go to the trouble? This is a woman who keeps secrets. It usually is part genetics and part FOO. If she felt powerless as a child this is how she hangs onto power as an adult. Btw, are you sometimes critical? What we think is constructive conversation might be felt by the other as criticism. No one reacts positively to it. I am not saying you are...just wondering. My husband often thinks it is perfectly ok to tell me every little thing he thinks is wrong that I do. I have a pretty healthy sense of self worth so I usually let it go but if it’s petty he hears from me. I call it nitpicking. He feels he is just letting me know the error of my ways. Uh, yeah.

Okay, so you've made it perfectly clear to her that lying is unacceptable and yet she continues to lie. Why does she do it? I'm not asking you to speculate, btw. I'm wondering if you've sat her down and challenged her on why she lies.

- How long has she been doing this?

It's a learned behavior, man. Where do you think she learned it? Or, more importantly, where does she think she learned it?

Yes, why does she do it?

The problem isn't that she wanted a Big Mac and didn't want to tell you about it. It's that she is carrying out the same deceptive behavior that led to her adultery in the first place.

If she has been a pathological liar for a majority of her life, how does she feel that she is going to correct this? By trying REAL hard?

It takes a ton of work to undo habits that are hardwired into us. Her actions will tell you how committed she is to correcting this. And it is only logical to think if she isn't willing to do this, what else isn't she willing to do to be a safe partner?

Lies big and small were a big issue between CH and I. As a condition of attempting reconciliation I made it a condition that he spend his time in IC getting to the bottom of the issue. He struggled with wondering what the big deal was with “little white lies”. His work has revealed that he is extremely conflict - avoidant (funny, since he had no trouble with behavior calculated to enrage anyone.) He also grew up in a family that had “lying up”, or telling fibs to make yourself look better, down to an art form. It’s a behavior that goes waaaaay back with him. He also had very fuzzy beliefs about the difference between privacy and secrecy. His therapist has worked patiently with him these last 2 years and he is really a new person in this area. There is hope for this kind of behavior, but it took expert help in our case.

As always, thanks for the constructive input. We spoke this evening and, she claims it's all about shame. Apparently she doesn't want anyone to know that she -- predominantly when stressed with work -- will sometimes eat junk food. I was too exhausted to talk at length with her and, wanted a night off from it all so, didn't come to any kind of resolution about how to manage this going forward (which, to me,includes her getting a handle on lies). I was mindful of the fact that not once did she ask how I'm doing -- it was all about her. But then, that may have been guilt, shame or some other emotion. We'll have a proper discussion tomorrow.

In response to the question about being critical, no, I'm not but, I do wonder if self-esteem issues are at play and how my other half may perceive herself and the world around her. For what it's worth, my wife knows I've always championed her...this includes encouraging her to start -- and supporting her through -- her PhD in Psychology.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 3:56 PM, October 3rd (Saturday)]

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 3:55 PM, October 3rd (Saturday)]

As you talk to your wife .. she did tell you she was leaving to head home .. did she have that impulse as she passed by to stop at MickeyD ‘s and decided to go in and eat .. the lie is that she told you she was still at work .. why did she lie? Why not call you and tell you she was stopping.. or call you and say I want a burger do you want me to get you one too .. so simple .. I can agree with all that your WW has a problem.. and that is something she needs to be working on .. FOO issues causing the lies ? Is it a fear that she should not spend the money 7 dollars ., just wanting a few minutes for her self , and has guilty feeling a for taking the break .. my guess is that she wasn’t planning to meet anyone or she wouldn’t have called you to begin with . I know that we ( especially women ) all get guilty feelings doing something just for ourselves..or taking time for ourselves to just be .. or daydreaming etc .. just a different take on that particular lie ..

sorry started this post before you posted .. and just read your reply ..

[This message edited by dancin-gal at 4:15 PM, October 3rd (Saturday)]