SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I deleted my earlier post about my situation, but I want to ask for more help.

To recap: My wife wants an open marriage after being caught having affairs. I have now agreed to try it out, on condition that we discuss the arrangement and set ground rules.

I discovered at the end of September that my wife had 3 affairs starting a year ago, including one that is ongoing with a man. After I discovered the affairs she told me she has long wanted to discuss open marriage with me, but was afraid I would not accept it. She wants an open marriage now and refuses to break it off with the man she is seeing for the last two months. They have not had sex, but she sends him sexting photos and communicates with him by text or phone nearly every day.

Initially I told her I do not want an open marriage. But as we have gone back and forth over this for the last month, I recognize that she is not willing to end the affair and she will not accept a return to a monogamous marriage. It's clear that if I want to stay married to my wife, I need to accept an open marriage arrangement and accept her sexuality (she is also bisexual and had an affair with a woman) as well as allowing her to continue exploring a relationship with the current "boyfriend" who is married in an open relationship.

Now I am willing to give it a try, because I feel it could rejuvenate our stagnant and sexless marriage and give me an opportunity to rekindle our love. Since I told her I am open to this, she has opened up to me in ways I have not experienced since we were first dating. She is loving and sexual with me. She is open to rebuilding our relationship despite years of feeling I did not meet her needs, emotionally.

It's a trade off I am not sure I can accept. But I want to see where this goes before I go down the path of divorce, which is my last resort.

My questions are mainly for people who have experienced similar situations of infidelity being turned into open marriage or a request for an open marriage, and for people now in Poly or non-monogamous relationships, or anyone who has tried an open marriage whether successful or failed.

- What was your personal experience?

- What makes an open, poly or non-monogamous relationship work or not work?

- How can I get over my insecurity and work with my jealousy as my wife builds an emotional and sexual relationship with another man?

- What do you think I will need to know or feel in order to decide if this is right for me and us?

Thank you.

(I was upset at some of the more obnoxious comments I received on my previous post, which is why I deleted it. Those referring to my wife's "holes" or inferring she is a whore are not acceptable to me. There should be a level of respect even for a WS. There were others who were very helpful and supportive, so I thank you. Please be respectful and compassionate. Thanks).

your WW is lying she has been having sex with this OM.

next lie is your WW is telling is that the OM is in an open

marriage.

Ask your WW to invite the OM and his wife to dinner.

your WW should not object because you want to make sure

that you are safe with the OM.

and being that the OM and his wife are in an open marriage

they should not have anything to hide and be willing to

meet with you.

I think you should do what you want to do.

Do YOU want to be in an open marriage? Mapping out your life plan, is this where you want to be?

Your direction, your destiny. Nothing to do with being a current husband of this woman you are married to.

Your wife has no respect for you whatsoever as you have not given her a reason to. She know she can do as she pleases with no consequences, so why should she stop ?

For lords sake man the marriage is dead, its like giving the kiss of life to a corpse. Stand up for yourself and file, and possibly gain some self respect back before you die gradually every day.

You need to stand up for yourself, and what you want out of your life. If you want to be in an open marriage then, well, who am I to judge. But if you are being strong-armed into this, then it is just the latest example of disrespect your wife is showing you, and your continued choice in being a doormat.

[This message edited by Atrowspark at 2:31 PM, November 2nd (Monday)]

- What was your personal experience?

My xwh tried this line with me too. The problem is - having an open relationship was never something I wanted or was interested in and he decided unilaterally that this is what our marriage was going to be - of course this only happened after he met his 'true love'

What makes an open, poly or non-monogamous relationship work or not work?

Honesty and open communication. Just IMHO, but your ww is not capable of the kind of honesty a successful ethical non-monogamous arrangement requires.

How can I get over my insecurity and work with my jealousy as my wife builds an emotional and sexual relationship with another man?

If you are not open to and all-in with a non-monogamous arrangement, you probably will not be able to do this.

What do you think I will need to know or feel in order to decide if this is right for me and us?

Do you want to share your wife with multiple other people? Do you want to go and date and have romantic relationships with other women? If the answer to either one of those is a no, then chances are very high that an open marriage will not work for you ultimately.

Look, obvs I don't know the particulars of your exact situation, but just my 0.02, you are setting yourself up for some serious hurt here. There is not a thing wrong with being a monogamous person. Being monogamous does not make you less than or unenlightened or boring (all things my xwh accused me of when I refused to 'get on board' with him dating and fucking other women on my dime). Not saying there's anything wrong with people who choose to live non-monogamous lifestyles, but from what I know, people who choose to explore that are people who are very honest with themselves and any potential partners from the very beginning. Your ww is patently dishonest and non-communicative. Be honest with yourself - do you really truly believe she is going to start being honest with you now?

Now I am willing to give it a try, because I feel it could rejuvenate our stagnant and sexless marriage and give me an opportunity to rekindle our love.

As much as you can right now, really think about this logically... so you're saying that the only way to stay married and rediscover love with your wife is... by introducing another man's penis? Does that make any sort of logical sense to you? If you had a friend saying this to you, would you agree or would you tell them that's some crazy-talk borne of deep emotional trauma?

I recognize that she is not willing to end the affair and she will not accept a return to a monogamous marriage.

Then are you willing to continue to live with a cheater who has shown you she has no respect for you or your feelings and does not care about how badly she has hurt you?

I had similar struggles in my situation when I first showed up on SI. I received some hard truth that pissed me off and that was really difficult to choke down. The general rule around here is 'take what you want and leave the rest'. Just saying, you will still get some responses you might not like, but please remember that everyone here is on different spots in the infidelity shit merry-go-round and that some posters are also dealing with their own struggles too. If you get a response that gets your hackles up, my advice is to first really look at why it's bothering you so much and second to disregard if it is ultimately unhelpful. I just don't really see any SIer encouraging you to try an open marriage with someone like your ww. I thought about it too with my xwh, but I got the same kind of answers you probably will and that is that there is NO path to a successful open marriage with a proven cheater.

Some of the posters that said things that irritated me in the beginning are ones that I have come to really admire and that ended up helping me the most.

I don't have personal experience with what I'll call (somewhat sardonically) consensual open marriage. My ex did use the excuse that SHE considered HERSELF in an open marriage as some form of excuse after she was caught, which frankly had me speechless for many minutes. Not easy to do.

I can only tell you my experience as an onlooker. We've PM'd a little, I told you what happened in that social group I gave you the details of, and what happened to each of the open polygamous marriages in that group. Each one. I'm not judging how two (or more) people find love in this world, really.. I just know what seems to work and what doesn't, although it didn't (directly happen to me). So my experience is only observational. Our marriage had already been destroyed without my knowledge, as, I think, yours has, but I respect your desire to keep ahold of the remains at any cost.

My question back to you is simple: how is this "marriage" any more?

It sounds like she just wants to date (and bye extension, have sex with) a lot of men and you just happen to be one of those men. What is in it for you, Anxious, personally? Will be enough for you? Wouldn't it be fair to you to divorce her and then just date her as one of her many guy friends? If she loves everyone the same way she loves you, then how are you that special to her any more, as a husband ought to be?

I mean, a husband ought to be special to a wife, right? Or how do you define love for yourself? Something that can be intimately shared with lots of people? This seems like a great idea I guess, but this is the important thing for me. Not everybody is objectively wonderful to every other person. Your wife is not an angel, she's a real woman, very different from what you originally married, and she is quite capable of preferring another man over you in this arrangement. In my observation, this is how open relationships fail. When you are establishing a group of people who are bound together by artificial rules and boundaries, it seems like those rules and boundaries quickly become an early casualty to day to day life. She might want to go stay over at the other guy's house for a couple nights in a row, even if it's against the rules. Maybe for two nights this week. Maybe for three next week. And so it goes, and so it goes.. and someone is suddenly on the outside looking in again. I know you already think there is a risk entailed in this arrangement and you need to enter into it understanding that it might fail and likely will eventually. Who knows, though, you might beat the odds. I wish you luck.

My xwh tried this line with me too. The problem is - having an open relationship was never something I wanted or was interested in and he decided unilaterally that this is what our marriage was going to be - of course this only happened after he met his 'true love'

Wow! Deja vu. I found out I was involuntarily in an "open marriage" after the fact, myself. Imagine my shock when I was informed of the fact.

You mean nothing to her. Maybe less than nothing emotionally. Something to be tolerated, presumably because you bring stability, income, or some other utility.

She is basically asking for retroactive permission to cheat.

She is going to set boundaries with you. Guess what is going to happen? She is going to blow through those boundaries like they mean nothing.

No sex in our home, she won't think twice.

Must use protection, good luck with that.

Has to tell you about it, nah that will just hurt you more.

Can't get caught up emotionally, ok, she already has a boyfriend.

You don't have a wife right now. You have a parasite. You are worried that cutting it out means you won't have it anymore.

I have now agreed to try it out, on condition that we discuss the arrangement and set ground rules.

I'm glad you're back. You'll continue to get good advice and unvarnished truth here.

As I said before, determining ground rules for an open marriage has been likened by many therapists as like trying to set ground rules for an earthquake.

It's even more perilous once someone like your wife has unilaterally opened the marriage by being a dishonest broker and shattering your vows.

It's unlikely to be successful and much more likely to result in emotional, mental and physical harm to you, the faithful spouse.

Now I am willing to give it a try, because I feel it could rejuvenate our stagnant and sexless marriage and give me an opportunity to rekindle our love.

The odds of this are extremely low. Open marriages account for less than 4 percent of the married population, and that's open marriages that were open in an honest way -- not as the result of an underhanded unilateral ultimatum.

It's also true that research shows most open marriages die out. About 92 percent of them.

Now look at those empirical odds please. You'd have better luck running out in speeding traffic.

The much more likely outcome is that it kills off what's left of your trust and stamps your love out for each other.

You will come to be repulsed by her and loathe her -- and it will happen sooner than you think.

Is that what you want?

You can't nice someone back, brother. You can't negotiate attraction.

Your wife is not acting in a loving way. She's acting in a hateful way, and you're letting her do it.

I never referred to her in derogatory terms in your previous thread, but I certainly don't feel a need to respect how she is behaving or treating you.

What she is doing is a moral transgression that violates the basic objective moral law you will find common to nearly every human culture on the planet, past and present the world over. It is actually perhaps the worst moral transgression among humans because it wraps up other moral transgressions within it -- and it is also physical and psychological abuse.

Your wife is abusing you. What should we respect about that? What would we tell a woman who was being abused by her husband?

It is wrong. It is not right. It cannot be sugarcoated or excused. It cannot be reasoned away.

Wow! Deja vu. I found out I was involuntarily in an "open marriage" after the fact, myself. Imagine my shock when I was informed of the fact

KoN - riiiiight? Mine also tried to tell me how 'inflexible' I was being when I wouldn't let the little tart move into my house. Yes.... he really honestly wanted his AP to live in MY HOUSE and sleep in the spare room. OH and I was 'close-minded' because I wouldn't even consider going on a date with her (see, she was bi and the two of them decided together during one of their fb sexting sessions that if she slept with me too then all would be well).

Looking back on it now, I am to be commended for not doing him serious and grievous bodily harm for all the utterly insane drivel he had coming out of his liehole during those early months. I am 98% okay with things, but there's still that 2% that just screams "dafuuuuuuuuq??"

Anxioushusband:

My wife wants an open marriage after being caught having affairs. I have now agreed to try it out, on condition that we discuss the arrangement and set ground rules.

Anxioushusband, Are you allowed to seek other women?

I know you don't want to hear what people are posting here. That much is obvious by the fact that you have posted yet again. But please take heed to what people here are saying to you. They are trying to help you.

There is not a thing wrong with being a monogamous person. Being monogamous does not make you less than or unenlightened or boring (all things my xwh accused me of when I refused to 'get on board' with him dating and fucking other women on my dime).

And I would go even farther and say that there's everything right with being a monogamous person. I'm not one for the constant multiplication of "lifestyles" as insisting on a new civil rights struggle every time we turn around.

This push on polyamory is frankly just rebranding of free love concepts from the Romantic era that 19th and early 20th century Socialists later embraced. Now the push is just for it to be more "ethical" -- but I doubt it will work for most people and the statistics don't and won't lie.

There's actually as much scientific evidence that monogamy is natural for humans as polygamy.

Being monogamous is counter-cultural and very punk these days.

I'm proud of it!

And Anxious you should be proud of it too! Don't turn your back on your core values or you'll find yourself hollowed out. The person you thought you married isn't this woman. This woman is someone else, but she's the only one sitting in front of you.

Give her what she wants and she'll probably be inclined to work on a favorable divorce for you bc she's in her fantasy world of how great her single life is going to be. It won't be.

Move forward now, please, for your own sake and your sanity.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:58 PM, November 2nd (Monday)]

Let's say he's allowed to see other women.

Most dudes that don't want this arrangement can't make themselves get into it. However, let's go one step further and say he can get into it.

If by some stroke of luck anxioushusband here is attractive enough to pull significant tail. I will bet you his wife will start setting limits on "number of partners" or something else, because she really just wants to have her boyfriend. This will be done under the guise of some reasonable restriction. COVID, STDs, etc... This then limits his pool of women to those that want repeat meaningless hookups with a married man. Very small pool there.

Actually I think you're back here on SI because you KNEW we wouldn't support this. You knew we'd give you tough love. You knew we wouldn't advise on how you could successfully navigate this, because none of us believe you can.

There's an old saying "The beatings will continue until the morale improves."

You will continue to allow your wife to abuse you until you wake up from your shock and find your inner integrity and identity as a man again.

I am hoping that won't be long and that you will assert your autonomy and independence as a worthwhile human being.

Please stand up for yourself.

The problem is a cheater who cant handle monogamy certainly wont be able to handle a polyamorous marriage . You have to resolve the cheating situation before you can go on to an open marriage

Your best bet is to get a lawyer and a therapist . You deserve love and respect and honesty - you should not settle for less. You do not at all sound like a man happily embarking upon a polyamorous journey , you sound like a man heartbroken that he has lost his wife to another man , no matter how you spin it thats whats happened to you and without your consent.

Hope you can beat the odds and find a happy ending here but i greatly doubt it

OH and I was 'close-minded' because I wouldn't even consider going on a date with her (see, she was bi and the two of them decided together during one of their fb sexting sessions that if she slept with me too then all would be well).

The olllld "I'm bi and so are you because that's my jerkoff fantasy" routine. I just told my wife that I'm very happy remaining close-minded (or words to that effect). I was very fortunate that her grandiose sexual plans actually didn't include ME in them.. I think she knew better than to bring that up. I'd pass out from laughing at her.

Thank you, Ellie, for adding "Liehole" to my vernacular. I wish I had that one in my vocabulary about four years back.

One of the key factors in having a good, open marriage,is honesty. She has already proven to be incredibly deceptive.

Have you actually spoken to this man's wife,and verified that she is aware she is in an open marriage?

To recap: My wife wants an open marriage after being caught having affairs. I have now agreed to try it out, on condition that we discuss the arrangement and set ground rules.

Your wife has not respected the ground rules or boundaries of the marriage, why do you think she will respect these rules now?

She had made it clear to you she will do whatever she wants by refusing to consider either your feelings or the health of your marriage in not giving up the OM. She knows you will do nothing and is treating you like a doormat.

I know you think this will keep your marriage together but it’s only pushing the hurt and eventual break-up down the line.