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I get needing/wanting the validation, but that's a lost cause it sounds like with your wh. All it will do it continue to hurt you if you expect him to provide it. Totally understand - I did it with my exdouche too. But the more distance I got from him mentally, the more clearly I saw his behavior for what it was. And that was pathologically selfish. He was incapable of validating anything but himself. Kinda sounds like yours is the same.

I know I need to stop relying on him. DD (15) is getting frustrated with me because she keep telling me to wake up & realize WH isn’t going to change.

Your daughter sounds like a sharp cookie!

I just finished my first IC appointment. I really like my counselor. There is a lot that I need to work thru. I told her everything, she didn’t really focus on WH or the cheating at all. She lasered in on my childhood. She gave me some homework to do until our next meeting. How was I taught to express my feelings, when I expressed feelings as a child, how was that met. What is the relationship between my parents like etc. I could have spent all day talking to her. She didn’t give any advice this time, just listened, asked questions and then asked me to do the homework and that we will explore next week.

And of course WH just had to ruin it. He asked me if I liked my session and if it made me feel better. I told him yes, I enjoyed it and I could have talked to her all day. Then he said for someone who enjoyed it, you don’t seem like it. I mean wtf? I’m in a reflective mood. This dickwad can’t handle the sadness he put on my face. I mean wtf??!!! I’m supposed to jump for joy everytime I see his ass? 🙄

[This message edited by TheThunderRolls at 2:01 PM, January 8th (Friday)]

He was incapable of validating anything but himself

These are very wise words.

One IC session and I can already see what a dismissive selfish jerk I married. WH does not like the mood I’m in nor when I try to explain something important an insight he asked me about btw... I get how weak I am and that I’m on a witch hunt to feel sorry for myself & that he’s giving me tough love. I need to be stronger etc. this shit he says is astounding. He knows better than the counselor 🙄 I can’t even sit back and be reflective of the session without him getting an attitude because I “look” miserable.

I see exactly where this is headed, now I just need to find my strength to GTFO.

And another argument added. Boy we are on a roll tonight. Apparently I’m never satisfied with anything and all I want is to be coddled. I told him I can’t believe how dismissive he was being and that if he wants to talk about never being satisfied to look in the damn mirror. He finds flaws with everything and has admitted so in the past so I threw it in his face. Now I’m “acting” like someone in TikTok and was told to go back to watching videos. The insanity of this crap. How I could ever even think I could try to make this sham of a marriage work with someone who only thinks of himself. So much for wanting me to get better right? As long as it does t change his situation. 😡 I’m so FURIOUS right now. IC has unlocked my anger.

[This message edited by TheThunderRolls at 7:27 PM, January 8th (Friday)]

I think you said that your WH is a Covert Narc? Might be another thread...

Anyway, if he is he's not going to be able to handle you going to IC very well because he believes you are talking about him. I wouldn't talk to him about IC at all. I wouldn't tell him you are going to sessions, how you feel about them, what you learn about yourself...

Yes a normal person would want to know all of these things. Would want you to get help and be excited that you are.A Narc sees something like IC as your way of talking bad about them behind their back. Teaming up against them. Remember it's all about them...not you.

He is not going to change. He does not want to change. He doesn't understand that he needs to change. So until you divorce I'd keep the IC on the down low. IC will help you to get stronger and see him and the marriage and yourself more clearly. It might be that added push you need to divorce him with cofidence.

I'm glad you got a good counslor and are enjoying your sessions. Don't let him ruin that for you.

FreeMe- I’m not sure if WH is a full blown narcissist but he does have narcissistic traits. Nothing, I mean nothing is ever his fault. Even his cheating was about the state of our marriage, not his lack of character or morals. Nope, he wasn’t happy so he looked elsewhere without informing me. He is VERY selfish. Me finally standing up for myself last night made him livid. We are not speaking to each other at the moment. Last night threw me over the edge. After all the shit he has put me thru wtf am I trying so damn hard. His actions show how he really feels. He feels superior, that I’m the one with the problem. I can never focus on the positives and wtf is wrong with me? Why can’t I just be happy? Why do I need to explore deeper instead of just focusing on why I have a hard time completing tasks. Those are statements I heard coming out of his mouth last night. He even took the IC about wanting to focus on my childhood as proof that that’s where our problems come from. My childhood. Not his cheating or treatment of me. He also was furious I told my sister about his cheating and got very defensive because it was a year and 1/2 ago, why bring it up now? He sent her a text apologizing to her. She sent it to me. His exact text; hey there, so I just wanted to reach out to sincerely apologize for hurting your sister (she told me you all talked and told you everything. Regardless of my reasons for doing so, it was wrong. I can’t take it back all I can do is ask for your forgiveness. I wouldn’t blame you if you never wanted to speak to me again but I hope that you will forgive me”

Again it’s ALL about him. Dr Jekyll and Mr. Hyde at home but in public he’s just the funny guy everyone wants to be around.

Why don’t you tell Mr Wonderful that you are in a very reflective mood. Contemplating an affair b/c as HE stated in the past the reason he had his affair was b/c he was unhappy with you / marriage.

Tell him you completely understand.

You see where he is coming from. And you feel the same way.

That will give him something to get enraged about.

Anyway, if he is he's not going to be able to handle you going to IC very well because he believes you are talking about him. I wouldn't talk to him about IC at all. I wouldn't tell him you are going to sessions, how you feel about them, what you learn about yourself...

Yes a normal person would want to know all of these things. Would want you to get help and be excited that you are.A Narc sees something like IC as your way of talking bad about them behind their back. Teaming up against them. Remember it's all about them...not you.

Yep I never told my narc what I discussed in IC. After I left it became blaming me for going to therapy, them brainwashing me and forcing meds on me all the while paying them to do this. That I became a different person from it and how sad that is that they turned me against him. Mine is one sick mofo.

I wouldn’t discuss the IC either. It’s not worth it. And he will probably blame you in the end anyways because they are always the victim. It’s sickening!

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 3:29 PM, January 9th (Saturday)]

I have no doubt he will tells his friends and family I’m the reason why we D. I have issues and that he was tired of dealing with them. I can already see how this will play out. When in actuality he only has himself to blame. Only one person knows about his cheating, my sister. No one on his side knows because that would make him look bad ya know. I can’t decide if I will expose him or not when this is over. I’m sure he would convince his family I deserved it and that it’s my fault he cheated. That’s his narrative now anyway so why would it change. He took a good, loyal, rare woman with a heart of gold, forgiving to a fault for granted. He does not deserve me. I just need to work on becoming repulsed by him and how to let him go.

[This message edited by TheThunderRolls at 4:26 PM, January 9th (Saturday)]

thunderolls, expose him now to his whole family for the PA

AND not doing his share of the work to recover the marriage.

Thunder- DO NOT discuss the contents of your IC visits to him. It is not his business. And I guarantee he will take any tidbit you reveal to him and throw it back in your face. Maybe not right away but he will at some point.

If he asks about your appointment - your response needs to be some version of "I'm still processing" or "I'm just processing". A version of gray rocking is necessary. During IC you will be unpacking a number of boxes, so you should expect to be in a reflective state after appointment.

I suspect he is just worried that he is being discussed in a negative light - just like he was texting your sister after you told her about his actions. Your IC appointments are your private business and not something he should be privy to. And it isn't his business what you tell your IC.

And it isn't his business what you tell your IC.

Amen!!

Old truck- if I were to tell his family now about everything he would still spin it to I deserved it. His family thinks the sun rises and sets on his ass. He has a way with words & is very good at spinning things. They won’t understand & I don’t want that added stress right now. After the D, I won’t care. I just need to focus on getting strong again.

Rat picker- this has already happened. He instantly focused on IC wanting to focus on my childhood that confirms his belief our problems stem from that trauma. Instead of looking at it as my childhood is what taught me to allow certain behaviors etc. I will immediately start grey rocking. I go to IC every Friday so I won’t tell him anything about future sessions. I suspect you are spot on about him worrying about being painted in a negative light. My sister grey rocked him. He sent her that text last week & she didn’t respond to him. She’s furious.

1stWife- LOL!!! I love your nickname for him & saying that would really set him off.

On a side note, the need to move out of state to get away from everything gets stronger everyday. AP lives 5 miles from me & I pass the road to her house everyday. So not only do I have that constant reminder, I’m now always on the look out anytime I go to the store. This is not good for my mental health. I want to take both of my girls & move 1/2 way across the US. I’ve already selected the state & city. So that is definitely one of my long term set goals.

[This message edited by TheThunderRolls at 11:12 AM, January 10th (Sunday)]

Here’s an update. WH comes to the store with me because I needed something from a bad area of town. We both have off work today. He starts talking about what’s wrong with my family. Yes, they have issues but I got angry with him and said I forgot your family is so perfect. Then he says he never said that and that I’m too sensitive and take things The wrong way and that one thing is clear to him... we can’t spend more than an hour together with me taking something the wrong way??!!! How the F do I get over this man & why does the things he says cut me to my core????

Let me add to my story about other things that were said. He joked about moving into an apartment and then asked me if I still had my demands the girls & my dog. We got into a debate about demands vs ultimatums. He starts going on and on about how he sees me sister as sneaky and deceptive and he wouldn’t be surprised if she cheated on her STBXWH. She never cheated. Like does this man hear himself? Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

[This message edited by TheThunderRolls at 1:03 PM, January 13th (Wednesday)]

I'm sorry you have to deal with that. The best advice you can have is the 180. Don't have any contact with him. Next time you need something from a rough part of town, take someone else with you. Or try to have it delivered.

The best way to avoid those situations is to avoid your WH completely.

Late to this, but ...

She also pointed out some hard truths. I sounded ridiculous and stupid when I explained everything to her. Dumb for trying to make things work with someone who has treated me like garbage. The excuses I was making, saying them out loud sounded ludicrous. It’s hard to let go of 23 years history and the father of my children and my family unit.

I'm really sorry. It IS very difficult to let go of so much of your life.

But if you get a good start on your plan for IC, and if your IC is competent,you'll start to see your value and find your strengths. You will be amazed at yourself, in a happy way.

How has it improved yourself beyond realizing your self worth, self esteem and finding yourself? Did you become more demanding and bitchy with your WS as a result?

I think you'll find realizing your self worth is a lot more rewarding than you think. I wouldn't call myself bitchy, but an observer might.

That is, if someone makes their desires and flexibility clear, that someone may appear to be bitchy even though they're a lot easier to deal with - if you know what a person wants, you can decide to provide it and be with that person or not provide it and not be with that person ... no mind reading necessary.

I feel like it would be easier on me if I was the one who walked away instead of if he did.

I'm not sure 'easier' is the best term, but 'better' might be. I agree with you wholeheartedly that figuring what you want and taking honest actions to achieve what you want is empowering. And I think that finding and using one's power is great, especially after living with someone who wants you not to use your power.

How is the IC going?

*****

I agree that minimizing your contact with your H is a good idea. The fewer contacts, the fewer the opportunities he has to drag you down.