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Rambler

In order for us to help people we need to encourage them to address these rather than convince them they do not exist.

I think the safest starting point is to assume it was better in some way (come up with your definition of what that means) and deal with that.

Sex has many, many, MANY different aspects, and in a real relationship has lots of other stuff dragged into it beyond just physical pleasure. It is the thousand-sided polygon. It can be looked at and experienced from infinite angles. The odds that the affair sex wasn't better in at least one aspect is pretty much zero. It may well have sucked in all others.

So start from there, is my recommendation.

By the way, the same argument results in the fact that sex within your relationship is also better in aspects. Better than anything you've ever had with anyone else. Put your attention there.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 9:36 AM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

To me, in that case, it wouldn't be about whether the A sex was better, it would be that the WS tried harder for the AP than he/she tried for me. People tend to try harder when they want the thing more.

Again I think this comes down to what CT is saying. When the WS chose to cheat, they already chose the AP. Right? If we were choosing the BS, it wouldn't have happened in the first place. (Truth is we aren't picking either of you, we are picking ourselves and whatever we are selfishly trying to extract from the affair)

In all things in an affair, it's usually not that the AP has better skills, looks, more to offer. It's the WS is in love with their own reflection in their AP's eyes. They think the AP sees them as better than they are. They aren't the spouse that sees us first thing in the morning, or when we are hungry, stressed, tired, etc.

So, in other words, I think CT explained that the WS is preferring the AP during the A most of the time. Understanding that in fact usually has little to do with the AP themselves is a big factor. It's a fantasy world, not a sustainable reality.

I just don't think there are magical people wondering around with special sexual skills that you as a husband can't do. I do think that people try harder for things that they don't know if they can obtain or not. So, really it comes down to the unavailability of the affair partner more than sexual prowess or having more desire based on the AP. It's all situational rather than based on the AP being such a stud or a find.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:52 AM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

...Whether it was for a day, a week, a year, or forever, the abandonment HAPPENED and in that space of time, the AP was preferred. I can't speak for anyone else, but IMHO, THAT's the source of the pain and where the focus should be.

We generally can speak only for ourselves, but in this case, CT, you're speaking for me.

Like you, I think abandonment is a big part of the issue. Whatever the issue, though, I think the focus on quality of sex, penis size, etc. is a way of avoiding the real issues.

It's pretty normal, but I surmise that many people would rather attribute an A to externals than ask the big questions about themselves. What if my WS abandoned me because of something I caused? What if I deserved to be betrayed?

I think it's pretty normal to dodge existential issues, because existential issues can be (and often are) terrifying. Doing so may not even be conscious, though sometimes they are.

There are a lot of people. I'm sure some women and men have cheated because of physical characteristics. I'm sure some people have cheated in the hope of better sex. I'm sure some of those hopes have been satisfied.

But a BS's healing is a result of the BS's facing themself. The WS is irrelevant to the BS's healing (unless the BS contemplates R. Even then, a BS should probably stay out of R unless the WS supports the BS's healing).

Comparing oneself to the ap is a terrible waste of energy in which the BS cannot win - because at least for some moments, the WS chose the ap over the BS.

The issue isn;t whether or not the ap was better. The ap wasn;t better - they always affair down.

The biggest issue is whether or not the BS wants to spend the rest of their life with their WS. If so, the issue becomes whether or not the WS and BS will do the necessary work. If R is not on the table, the WS becomes a non-issue. The ap is always a non-issue, IMO.

Comparing oneself to the ap is a way of avoiding the pain - the grief, anger, fer, shame - that comes with being betrayed. And the comparison helps avoid working to get rid of the self-doubt and self-hate that comes along with those feelings.

If you want to stop asking if the sex was better, if 'different' is better, process your pain out of your body, and process away the self-talk that you use t attack your self.

The problem isn't out there, with the ap, where we have no control. It's inside, where we do have control. We just have to learn to use our strengths....

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:12 AM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

I had sex with other partners before marriage. It's not hard for me to understand the explanation of "different". That said, it doesn't make sense to me why people get so hung up on whether their cheating spouse's sexual experience with an AP was "better" or "worse". Either way, the WS has rejected what s/he had at home in favor of what the AP is offering, even if that rejection was a temporary one. "Better", "worse", or "different" won't change what happened. Whether it was for a day, a week, a year, or forever, the abandonment HAPPENED and in that space of time, the AP was preferred. I can't speak for anyone else, but IMHO, THAT's the source of the pain and where the focus should be.

Yep!

oldtruck, I think this is one of those "why me?" rabbit holes. Was the sex "better?" with the AP is a BS wondering what they could have done differently to have prevented their WS's infidelity. The betrayal hits so hard and so deep that we are left questioning ourselves.

I can understand the idea of "different." I was in my early 30s when I met my wife-to-be. In the 15 or so years before that, I had a lot of failed relationships and some that never really got off the ground (or the bed).

They were all very different women. Sex with each of them was as unique an experience as they were unique themselves. The only thing "better" about any of the sex I had with any of them had to do with how comfortable we were with each other. And even that often changed over the course of a relationship (and usually did).

My FWW and I had a good sex-life in the early years of our relationship. By the time she cheated, our sex-life was virtually non-existent. I didn't doubt for a moment that that sex with the OM was probably the best she'd had in years. After being run over by the Hysterical Bonding Express Train, our sex-life was back to good again, even great upon occasion.

Different.

I never asked her too many questions about sex with the OM. She said it was "awkward." I've had awkward sex, too. I left it at that.

Truthfully, brother, I don't give a fuck if was the worst or best sex she's ever had or anywhere in between. She betrayed me. That's all I really need to know.

Sex with different people is different, flat out. I don't know about y'all, but I don't rank every single sexual encounter I have. That's pretty gross thinking. I have sex with people. If I'm just looking to get my rocks off, I can masturbate just fine.

I have my husband and my boyfriend. If you put a gun to my head and asked me which one was the better sex, I couldn't answer you. And neither one of them is reading this so I'm not worried about hurting their feelings. They're DIFFERENT. In terms of technical skill? They do things differently. One might be better at one thing, one might be better at something else. Even the energy feels different when we have sex because we connect differently.

I've had amazing, mindblowing sex with both of them (separately, we don't usually have threesomes) and I've had mediocre sex on occasion with both of them. That's the reality of ongoing relationships.

But thinking you can always rank sex? I think that's a pretty awful way to think about it.

I do think that people try harder for things that they don't know if they can obtain or not. So, really it comes down to the unavailability of the affair partner more than sexual prowess or having more desire based on the AP. It's all situational rather than based on the AP being such a stud or a find.

I think it has a lot to do with this. My W enjoyed the sex because the AP was aggressively Pursuing her, it’s hard to match that when your dealing with family, work and real life.

PSTI

Sex with different people is different, flat out. I don't know about y'all, but I don't rank every single sexual encounter I have. That's pretty gross thinking. I have sex with people. If I'm just looking to get my rocks off, I can masturbate just fine.

I have my husband and my boyfriend. If you put a gun to my head and asked me which one was the better sex, I couldn't answer you. And neither one of them is reading this so I'm not worried about hurting their feelings. They're DIFFERENT. In terms of technical skill? They do things differently. One might be better at one thing, one might be better at something else. Even the energy feels different when we have sex because we connect differently.

I've had amazing, mindblowing sex with both of them (separately, we don't usually have threesomes) and I've had mediocre sex on occasion with both of them. That's the reality of ongoing relationships.

But thinking you can always rank sex? I think that's a pretty awful way to think about it.

I think you are representative of most women, hell most men too. I cannot say my exWW was the best sex I ever had, but then again I can't remember any woman being the best. Some were more acrobatic and uninhibited than my exWW, but that doesn't equate to "better".

I dunno... I'm a guy. I guess I'm just not that discriminating. A vag to me is a vag. It is the person said vagina is connected to that makes the difference and determines whether I remember the sex with her fondly. I've been with smokin' hot women who were absolute starfishes in bed, and then I have been with less pretty women who were enthusiastic and very willing partners. I always manage to get off and enjoy both types, and with diligence and paying attention to what they want, I can make either type orgasm nicely.

It depends on the person, but to say someone is "better" than another? I don't know the criteria for that.

Better", "worse", or "different" won't change what happened. Whether it was for a day, a week, a year, or forever, the abandonment HAPPENED and in that space of time, the AP was preferred.

Amen....

As I said on the other "better sex" thread, heroin may be a "better" high than alcohol, but that doesn't make it OK, at least not with me.

And wow, CT - that "abandonment happened in that space of time" kind of slapped me upon my noggin. Realizing that the entire M was basically abandonment is something I'd not really seen before, so thanks (I think )

I had an affair over 25 years ago and well before marriage when I was 23 I believe. Up until SI, I thought the affair sex was the best I ever had. Being on this site made me revisit my affair and rethink whether or not it really was. I had to think quite a bit, but the sex is still so vivid in my mind, my memory of it was nearly 100% recallable.

My conclusion: It really wasn't the best I ever had. It's the circumstances that surrounded my affair that elevated it to me thinking it was better or perhaps THE best. My AP was the opposite of my girlfriend who was prim, proper, well educated and a prospective wife. AP wasn't any of those things. I saw her from a pure sexual nature. From the time I saw her, sex was my goal. That's how I was in my early to mid 20's. Didn't touch married women but relentlessly pursued unmarried females, in a relationship or not, provided their boyfriends weren't friends or acquaintances of mines.

With AP, it was never anything else but sexual to me and because of it, made it dirtier, raunchier and in my mind, better........but it wasn't. I'm 100% certain of this. When I imaginarily replaced my AP with my wife, removed all of the extenuating circumstances and viewed it from a pure sexual performance perspective, I realized the AP wasn't better. Not one bit.

To further this point. I ran into the AP 2-3 years after our 5 month affair ended. Our situations were very different. I was no longer with my betrayed girlfriend and had moved to another city, where I ran into AP. My immediate thought was let's restart the sex. We did. It was unbelievably disappointing and I couldn't for the life of me understand why. We hooked up a number of times, and it didn't come close to matching the sex from years prior.

In retrospect it was because the circumstances were different. The raunchy, dirty part was missing and as such, greatly reduced the sex quality. I didn't understand how it could have gone from extraordinary to below average with the same woman in such a short period of time.

I came to realize it was never exceptional to begin with. It was the mirage that I placed my affair in that made the sex seem to be extraordinary, but in actuality it was ordinary. As a man, I read the WW's here and often doubt their claim .........however, it's hypocritical of me in a sense because I can attest to what some or even many of them are saying because I was once them.

The sex was just terrible.

I kept going back hoping it would get better.

That explains why they kept going back.

My immediate thought was let's restart the sex. We did. It was unbelievably disappointing and I couldn't for the life of me understand why. We hooked up a number of times, and it didn't come close to matching the sex from years prior.

In retrospect it was because the circumstances were different. The raunchy, dirty part was missing and as such, greatly reduced the sex quality. I didn't understand how it could have gone from extraordinary to below average with the same woman in such a short period of time.

I came to realize it was never exceptional to begin with. It was the mirage that I placed my affair in that made the sex seem to be extraordinary, but in actuality it was ordinary. As a man, I read the WW's here and often doubt their claim .........however, it's hypocritical of me in a sense because I can attest to what some or even many of them are saying because I was once them.

YES.

For me, I didn't think the sex at the time was "the best ever" I was excited about it, yes. But, it was more because for me it was an opportunity to elevate myself in his eyes so I could "win". I wasn't cognizant of it at the time.

A lot went into my affair, but for simplicity someone else stated that often it's a frumpy middle aged woman who wants to be seen the way she was in her youth. So, for me the sex was more part of the role of who I was trying to present myself as.

Without the need to prove that, it would take the air out of the tires, just like when it wasn't illicit any more for you it lost it's edge.

The construct of affair sex isn't often based on true physical attraction and desirability. It's whatever construct in the WS's head that they are trying to live out.

I actually saw video of my WH having sex with one of the OWs.

And yeah... it did my head in Thank God for EMDR. EMDR is tough to get through, just like any immersion therapy, but it really reduces the visceral reaction.

Anyway, I saw, and not just a single incident either. And... it was boring. I read their emails. They gushed about how wild and exciting it was, how thrilling their video was to watch. But when I stepped back from my horrified emotional response and looked at it objectively, it wasn't even interesting amateur porn. Just a fat, pimply ass getting humped repeatedly. Most of the sex they had was in cars or in the fucking bushes out some old dirt roads. On DDay when I asked him how it was, primarily just to watch him squirm in discomfort, his response wasn't unexpected... "it's always good for me", meaning he got his nut so case closed.

Bottom line... there was nothing extraordinary going on. The only thing that was "addicting" was the thrill of the hunt and the risk of getting caught. Adrenaline and dopamine. Their banter and protestations of undying love were juvenile, like what you'd see from a couple of teenagers who just discovered sex, and the sex itself, unremarkable and somewhat awkward... like a couple of teenagers who just discovered sex. Nothing I saw in over three months of communications could hold a candle to what my WH had experienced within our marriage.

So yeah... I know what it is to go down the rabbit hole over this issue. Been there, done that. But when you come back to the surface and you really look at what happened objectively, it's easy to see that APs aren't special. They aren't sex gods. They're just emotionally stunted people out looking for validation.

The very best sex I had with my (now ex) BS when we were in love was better than the affair sex. Even the good sex with BS was better than affair sex.

BUT my AP enthusiastically wanted me, didn’t reject me, kissed me, did things that my ex-husband made me too ashamed and embarrassed to ask for after years of him saying no. Affair sex lacked the anxiety and self consciousness and all the negatives that were present in my marital bed. It also didn’t include the day to day reality of married life. I didn’t have to deal with his dirty socks or go to his annoying brother’s house or get woken up by his snoring.

When WS say it’s “different not better”, it may be that it’s incredibly complicated to explain all of the mental, emotional and physical elements that go into sex. It’s not as simple as holding up a scorecard like an Olympic judge.

Poppy704,

You are one of a handful of WS on this website that say sex with their BS was better than sex with the AP even if your comments are qualified. Why is that ?

I would think all the WS on this site including the lurkers would chime in on this topic to help all the BS that agonize about this subject.

It would be nice to see a spreadsheet of all the WS on this site who say sex with BS was better than sex with AP. The third column of the spreadsheet could be comments/qualifications.

I suspect almost all WS would admit that sex with AP during the affair was better than sex with the BS.

For the record Username123, It's my wife by a mile.

Jorge,

Were you married to your wife at the time of your affair? Didn't you say you were 23 at the time of your affair?

Well , I have nothing to lose either way. My BS and I divorced. I’m not generally well liked on this site so I speak very freely. Being authentic to me is more important than getting approval.

The qualifiers I used are very important. We talk a lot of the thrill, the element of danger, the ego kibbles. But there’s very little discussion about the fact that in most relationships, the best sex you’re going to have together happens early on before real life happens, when you still make out, before someone gets lazy, and someone gets resentful, when BOTH parties legitimately want the other to get off.

Of course, you should want that with your spouse, and not having it doesn’t justify cheating. And after the affair, having open, honest, exchanges of thoughts and feelings is that much harder.

I would also say that my husband by far is my best sexual partner. I have had sex with him at times that was nothing short of transcendant. I 100 percent would say that there was no comparison. And, considering I just found out in October he has been cheating on me, I really have no reason to hold back when it comes to sexual comparisons because I have been pissed at him way more days than not over the last 3 months.

It's also worth noting that Poppy did eventually divorce her BS, so she would be another that would really have no reason to hold back. (I guess we cross posted Poppy)

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:04 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

Different people have a different body. They feel different to touch, they taste different, they smell different, they make different sounds and enjoy different things done to them and by them. Sex includes all those elements. So sex with different people's gonna be different between them.

That said; I had amazing sex with my wife. I had terrible sex with my wife. I've never managed to actually have sex with my AP because of anxiety and shit but the other stuff was alright. Some good, some bad.

I don't know about other people but that's what I would mean if someone asked me what does "different" mean.