SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Devastated Dee-

I really can't argue with anything you've said. I'm probably normalizing it. I've not heard the dark cloud term before but the way you describe it, it makes sense.

After reading this, I do feel somewhat foolish.

I did confront her a little bit ago and I felt empowered for doing so. I asked to see what was in there. Initially I was gaslighted. I explained how important it was to not gaslight me and then she told me what was in there.

I felt good because I expressed my emotions and my feelings, which is something I do struggle with. I'm not used to sharing emotion all that much.

So in a small way it was an important win, but also I have normalized this way too much.

Thanks for the perspective.

DC, I'd like to throw in - there is no way that you can be the best dad that you can while you're spending all of this time and energy on your WW and her problems. 50% is not ideal but that 50% gets to be all focused on the kids. Count the hours in a day you see your kids now. How many of them are spent with your FULL attention on them? Not thinking about WW. Not thinking about the As. Not on down time you're using to help distract yourself. Are your kids getting 50% of your attention now? Doubtful.

Your WW is going to do what she's going to do. She will continue to implode whether you're right next to her, in the next room, or 50 miles away because YOU have nothing to do with it. It's all a struggle within herself. If she's still imploding even though you're doing everything you can to help her, your best course of action is to get the hell out of the way. If you're disarming a bomb and things aren't going well, you wouldn't stick around to see if they get better, would you? You wouldn't stay on the Titanic because it might stop sinking, would you? Save yourself. If afterwards she gets the help that she needs and improves, date her again. Marry her again.

DC, I'd like to throw in - there is no way that you can be the best dad that you can while you're spending all of this time and energy on your WW and her problems. 50% is not ideal but that 50% gets to be all focused on the kids. Count the hours in a day you see your kids now. How many of them are spent with your FULL attention on them? Not thinking about WW. Not thinking about the As. Not on down time you're using to help distract yourself. Are your kids getting 50% of your attention now? Doubtful.

This is an accurate assessment. I don't think I've thought of it this way before.

In your situation, snooping is not only good but essential for your well being (you need to know what you are dealing with here).

What I don't understand is that she has had many affairs and each time you confront, nothing really seems to happen. Why are you doing this? As others have said it is better for your kids to see you healthy and happy but apart than you being miserable in the same house and also telling them that her behaviour is acceptable in a marriage (you are setting the wrong model for them).

After reading this, I do feel somewhat foolish.

Don't, you aren't foolish. You're in a very very hard marriage and we don't get a handbook on how to deal with this stuff in high school. You've been surviving and coping in an impossible situation.

You're in a very very hard marriage and we don't get a handbook on how to deal with this stuff in high school.

There really should be a mandatory relationships 101 course.

DC, sorry you had to find this site

DC, I'd like to throw in - there is no way that you can be the best dad that you can while you're spending all of this time and energy on your WW and her problems. 50% is not ideal but that 50% gets to be all focused on the kids. Count the hours in a day you see your kids now. How many of them are spent with your FULL attention on them? Not thinking about WW. Not thinking about the As. Not on down time you're using to help distract yourself. Are your kids getting 50% of your attention now? Doubtful.

This is an accurate assessment. I don't think I've thought of it this way before.

Stick with us as there are, unfortunately, a lot of people experienced in this subject who can help you look at your situation in a way you may have not at this point.

Has your wife been diagnosed by a CSAT?

Where are you with working your steps?

Is your therapist helping you to detach? Are you seeing the right kind of therapist? Meaning one that is a fit for you AND is experienced with working with partners of SAs?

I would assume by now, that you should be on the road to acceptance of how your wife is choosing to behave-and knowing that she is not interested in changing.

I think snooping wouldn't even be an issue if you were solidly on your way to acceptance in your heart of hearts.

At least, that's how it worked for me. It took me three years to understand my husband isn't reconciliation material, in a way I need him to be. (My husband is also a diagnosed, SA..but he's working his recovery ..but isn't interested in repairing our marriage.)

Once I got that, really it was like the lightbulb flipped on. Even something like "trust but verify" didn't even matter anymore. I can't even get to trust.

but a sick person. She is bulimic, more now than I've ever seen her. She is depressed and anxious. She is a recovering alcoholic (far enough along that I can occasionally have beer in the house). She has a lot of childhood trauma she is trying to work through with a councellor

And??? So what. It is HER responsibility to fix herself. You're asking the wrong question, "to snoop or not to snoop?"

You should be in here asking how to find a good divorce attorney and how to find a good therapist to help you dig deep for your self worth.

Soooo, if a person had a traumatic upbringing and became a serial killer or a serial rapist, their traumatic upbringing prevents them from consequences??? They're really a good person,, but.... Bullshit. Anytime there is a "but", it's a contradiction.

Either her cheating is acceptable or it isn't. Is it? She isn't going to change until she wants to. You can stick around and remain the doormat, or you can love yourself and value yourself enough to find a better life without infidelity.

FWIW, it's not "snooping" when you're married, especially if she's cheated in the past.

You're living for someone else's potential, not for who and what they are. That's just a recipe for disaster. Real change is rare and the WS has to really WANT it, more than the status quo, more than the marriage, more than anything. Change happens when the WS just can't stand the person they've become.

There are LOTS of people who decide to "stay for the kids", and that really is an acceptable choice as long as you can accept the consequences of it. But when your WS isn't doing the work, when they're not "all in" on the marriage, you're butting your head on a stone wall trying to have a REAL and loving relationship with that person.

My advice to you is that if you choose to "stay for the kids", be comfortable with that choice and don't ask more of it. Let her go do what she wants and don't bother checking up on her. Stay out of her bed, do your own thing. But if you're staying for the relationship, DEMAND real change and accountability. That means your WS living life TRANSPARENTLY for as long as it takes to restore REAL TRUST. In that case, you would check whenever you felt like it and her reaction should be "Great. This is an opportunity to prove my commitment". If she throws a fit or doesn't comply, dump her on her ass and go find a woman who treats you better and can model a loving relationship for your kids.

ETA: Think about the excuses you're making for her. Do ALL bulimics have the RIGHT to cheat? Does EVERY depressed or anxious person have the RIGHT to betray their mate? When you put it in that context, it's easier to see how hollow those excuses are.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:50 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

Has your wife been diagnosed by a CSAT?

Where are you with working your steps?

Is your therapist helping you to detach? Are you seeing the right kind of therapist? Meaning one that is a fit for you AND is experienced with working with partners of SAs?

She has not been diagnosed with a CSAT. I'm actually through all twelve steps. I started last April going to Zoom meetings. Where I was then and where I am now are two very different places. I am very much detached now.

She is not going to a CSAT. I think whatever is going on is more deeply rooted then that and closer tied to her bulimia.

I know. I know. I'm very much in the rescuer position. I've always been the rescuer and she has always been the victim. It used to worry me and make me feel trapped. But I feel like my limit is either here or coming very soon. It's almost like a baseball player feeling for the wall in the outfield. I know I can't go too much farther like this; I'm at the warning track so to speak.

My advice to you is that if you choose to "stay for the kids", be comfortable with that choice and don't ask more of it. Let her go do what she wants and don't bother checking up on her. Stay out of her bed, do your own thing. But if you're staying for the relationship, DEMAND real change and accountability.

This is an important distinction. I might be a little straddled between these two worlds right now. Thanks

Yes, there is something really bad about snooping; being in a marriage with cheating spouse that will require you to snoop.

You discovered five years ago that she was cheating on you, and she keeps cheating. And you still waiting her to heal? Moreover, what you expect healing is not her infidelity, but her sicknesses. Do you really think she will stop cheating on you when her bulimia is over?

Why do you think that she is not a bad person?

Is she a good mother? Ok, let's say she is good to your kids. Are you the reason why she is good to them? Will she stop being good to them if you divorce?

Is she good to the other people? Let's say yes. So what? Does this have anything to do with you?

And the final question; leave others aside, is she good to you? By cheating serially? By not caring and respecting your feelings and dignity?

[This message edited by guvensiz at 7:00 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

I'm very much in the rescuer position. I've always been the rescuer and she has always been the victim.

If you search "Karpman Drama Triangle" online and study what you find, you'll see why she always bites the hand that rescues her. When people are caught in the triangle, the positions shift. Note that she doesn't remain in the "victim" role. She moves to "persecutor" as she cheats and betrays and puts YOU in the victim role. Then, once shit has gone sideways, one of you will come to the "rescue" in order to preserve the relationship. Thus, the cycle repeats with each of you taking turns in each of these three roles.

Once you've read the information, you'll note that the drama triangle is an unhealthy state of being. It's like a game you can't win, and the only healthy way to cope with it is NOT to play.

dogcopter

This is a very good point. I am worried about the model I am portraying.

Suppose your kid gets cheated on. What are you going to tell them?

After reading this, I do feel somewhat foolish.

Trust me, the bulk of us BS feel foolish for some of the bullshit that we try to rationalize and accept. Don't beat yourself up - but don't commit to foolishness.

I did confront her a little bit ago and I felt empowered for doing so. I asked to see what was in there. Initially I was gaslighted. I explained how important it was to not gaslight me and then she told me what was in there.

I felt good because I expressed my emotions and my feelings, which is something I do struggle with. I'm not used to sharing emotion all that much.

Is this because of years with her or is it something systemic to yourself? I'm with a new woman now and the communication we have is intense. We can talk about our emotions and feelings - there's a freedom I didn't have previously. There are other women out there, good women, who won't cheat on you.

nekonamida

DC, I'd like to throw in - there is no way that you can be the best dad that you can while you're spending all of this time and energy on your WW and her problems. 50% is not ideal but that 50% gets to be all focused on the kids. Count the hours in a day you see your kids now. How many of them are spent with your FULL attention on them? Not thinking about WW. Not thinking about the As. Not on down time you're using to help distract yourself. Are your kids getting 50% of your attention now? Doubtful.

This is probably one of the most important things - it's true and very important.

I know. I know. I'm very much in the rescuer position. I've always been the rescuer and she has always been the victim. It used to worry me and make me feel trapped. But I feel like my limit is either here or coming very soon. It's almost like a baseball player feeling for the wall in the outfield. I know I can't go too much farther like this; I'm at the warning track so to speak.

When it happened to me I had a similar mentality - my ex had a lot of important people die in her life. I thought she was hurting and confused. She just needed to see reason.

What I came to is that it doesn't matter. She did her damage to me and what was broken between us cannot be fixed. I could never trust her again. I could never rationalize the awfulness she put me through. So she may have been the one that was drowning originally but she pulled me off the damned boat and I had to save myself. I couldn't do it while trying to pull her up with me. I just continued drowning.

I told my therapist that this is a source of shame for me. She thinks I should just stop because of this.

I have been going to an S-Anon group as well. They seem to think snooping is bad for me.

I dragged my spouse to a marriage counselor several times. He thought it was good. I questioned him about it and he said most people don't know what the f*ck they are talking about and that I should trust him; it was good to do.

Some counselor’s are really bad. From what I’ve seen you have less than a 50% chance of getting a decent one.

Don’t snoop? She needs her privacy to cheat. Really?

Google serial cheater so you know what you’re dealing with.

Marriage Counseling in this situation is worthless. It’s not your marriage that’s broken. She is.

Bud, STD’s happen. What if she’s infects you with something that is incurable?

What are you teaching your kids?