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Study: only 16 percent of marriages survive

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:40 PM on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021

Well, what came up for me from the suggested search argument was an article that said in one 'graph that 15.6% of Ms persisted and a few 'graphs later reported statistics of 70%.

If you're thinking straight, and if you look around for easily avaiable statistics, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that statistics on infidelity are, at best, specific to a sample and not reliable for extrapolationg to the entire population.

*****

If you don't see posts by people who are happy they've R'ed, you are probably filtering out a lot of what you've read on SI. There are numerous post by people who have R'ed.

Also, note that the R forum is specifically for posting about difficulties one encounters in R. The forum has a built-in bias.

*****

Of course people who have D'ed are generally happier after their Ds. R made me happier, too.

Taken4granted is right - D is the only sure way out of one aspect of the betrayal. But that doesn't mean it gets you entirely out of betrayal - I read of SIer after SIer who gets betrayed again, usually - thankfully - before M, by relationships subsequent to the D. Sometimes that's because someone's picker is faulty, but often it's because of too many possible reasons to list.

We know that a recent random sample survey found 20% of men and 13% of women who admitted to being unfaithful at least once before the age of, IIRC, 60. D may get you out of one infidelity, but it certainly doesn't inoculate you against future betrayals.

*****

If you're interested in R, what got me was Shirley Glass's statement that only 20% of the Ms she saw ended in D when both partners said they wanted R.

That is, if both partners want R, and if both partners do the necessary work, R is eminently possible, perhaps even probable.

The corollary is that R is unlikely to work when one or both partners does not do the necessary work.

*****

More important: D, in itself, at best get one away from one's betrayer, but often D doesn't even do that completely.

D does not necessarily deal with the emotional/psychological impact of betrayal on the BS. Resolving the emotional impact takes special effort by the BS.

It's unfair, but the BS needs to do that work to fully get out of infidelity, and without doing that work, one stays stuck.

D alone is insufficient to get out of infidelity.

[This message edited by sisoon at 10:53 AM, March 3rd (Wednesday)]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex apDDay - 12/22/2010Recover'd and R'edYou don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30967   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
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thatbpguy ( member #58540) posted at 6:11 PM on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021

There are so many studies it seems.

That said, I would agree with this one. So very few couples end up in a better place after betrayal enters. I have never ceased to be amazed as how WS & BS view R after a couple of years.

ME: BH Her: WW DDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I left; Divorced Remarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4480   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
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HouseOfPlane ( member #45739) posted at 7:50 PM on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021

From the study...

Another 30 percent tried to stay together but broke up eventually, and only 15.6 percent survived this break of trust.

So about 33% of those who tried to R succeeded in some form.

Sounds reasonable.

DDay 1986: R'd, it was hard, hard work.

“Tell me, what is it you plan to do
with your one wild and precious life?”
― Mary Oliver

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siracha ( member #75132) posted at 7:51 PM on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021

i think these depressing stats make alot of sense , very few marriages are truly worth continuing after major damage done - because most people just arent going to address the structural changes they need to make to themselves a whole new person .

On a more positive note - stats are not destiny , some people will absolutely beat the odds

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newlife03 ( member #56527) posted at 8:04 PM on Wednesday, March 3rd, 2021

I can understand that. After infidelity the trust is gone. And even when you try to rebuild, many just can't get passed it.

I also believe, however, that the efforts of the wayward spouse make a difference as well. If they show true remorse and spend their lives devoting themselves to the recovery of the marriage I think marriages can survive. I didn't have that experience (false R's, several OW's, etc.) but I know that many have.

Me - 50
Kids 25, 22, 18
1st DDay in 2006, 2nd in 2007
D in 2009
Happily Committed to SO since 2011

posts: 657   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: ID
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Carissima ( member #66330) posted at 3:51 AM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

How many divorces aren't being counted because they're no fault? After all the stats algorithms can't find what's not there to find. Also how long do they consider infidelity to be the cause of the divorce? Are they only counting those who split immediately or those who may split 5 years later because their WS isn't doing the work.

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id 8638910
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 Justsomeguy (original poster member #65583) posted at 2:35 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

Just read another post about BS who is reflecting after a good number of years. They are resigned to a meh marriage, something that is as good as it gets. Yet after 8 years, they would be considered R for the purposes of a study on infidelity. The regret for choosing to stay is palpable and it just makes me so sad to see someone so abused by their WS. I think the 95% failure rate is close to spot on.

I'm an oulier in my positions.

Me:57 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 2:44 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

So very few couples end up in a better place after betrayal enters.

I don't think that's too surprising. Waywards by definition are broken and selfish at the time of the A. So many of them are not willing and able to put in the work that true R requires. Some BS have very definitive deal breakers that automatically preclude R. Some BS are just too traumatized. You have to have the right BS/WS combination for R to succeed and that can be rare.

[This message edited by grubs at 8:45 AM, March 4th (Thursday)]

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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 2:54 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

It's rare that a person who commits infidelity was a paragon of a spouse in every other respect.

I can't count how many times I've known people who were married to people with substance abuse problems, physically and emotionally abusive, couldn't hold down a job, or were overall selfish people... but some reason, none of those things were dealbreakers until they fucked someone else.

BW, 40s

Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

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blahblahblahe ( member #62231) posted at 3:13 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

Just read another post about BS who is reflecting after a good number of years. They are resigned to a meh marriage, something that is as good as it gets. Yet after 8 years, they would be considered R for the purposes of a study on infidelity. The regret for choosing to stay is palpable and it just makes me so sad to see someone so abused by their WS.

This was my greatest motivation for executing my exit plan. To incur such risk and such burden for so a much a middling (at best) return with a proverbial hidden elephant in the room lurking is plainly illogical.

A WW is not your friend, not your ally they are at best a variable at worst a clear threat. The mental gymnastics that are required to justify horrid action before, during and after just to achieve a "meh" with the odds of more being that of a golden ticket to Wonka's factory.

I think the 95% failure rate is close to spot on.

It is a reasonable supposition, just look at the number of posters in the R forum thread about happy RC's and calculate by the number of members and however you slice it its less than a full 1 percent.

[This message edited by blahblahblahe at 2:47 PM, March 4th (Thursday)]

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Waggingthedog ( member #65793) posted at 3:41 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

The statistics…. It’s an area that I delved into heavily post DDay.

When we look at statistics, what we are looking for is a prognosis for the future so that we can make an informed decision on how to spend our most precious resources. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that there are statistics that can answer this question for any of us.

Key questions we may need to ask ourselves when making this assessment are:

1.) The “level” of the affair.

2.) The “investment” in the marriage now from the wayward spouse.

3.) The “fear of missing out” (FOMO) for either R or D

4.) The possible return on the investment of pain and heartache for either option.

The “level” of the affair is what most of those statics miss. A ONS while intoxicated is a tremendous breach of trust and possibly a dealbreaker for many. An LTA is a different story. With an LTA you are dealing with months or years of missing history in your own world. If there were multiple Aps perhaps that is also a different story.

You also have levels of depravity – i.e. were you in a dead bedroom, starving for attention, affection, validation or support from your spouse while someone else was getting those aspects of a relationship you valued. Did the wayward use your home, your finances, your children or anything you hold dear in their secret fantasy land? Did they make fun of you to their AP? Was the AP someone you both knew? Was the wayward spouse unkind in very substantive ways?

The statistics that I reviewed, obsessively, did not account for those differences in the level of an affair to a substantive degree. Any statistic on that end would likely be flawed because there is no way to gather that data other than to self report… and someone in an LTA or with multiple Aps would likely not self report those aspects of an affair.

The next thing that these studies/statistics cannot account for is an accurate gauge of how much the wayward is invested in the marriage after the affair. How could a study accurately gauge this when we are unable to do so? I can tell you, when I tried to reconcile the marriage I needed some tangible measure of knowing that my WW was interested in reconciling. I got that part of it, but her heart – truly – was not in it. Her investment was not in “me” but in our “family” and the life we shared. It was difficult to see those things as separate concepts at first. Any study that tried to qualtify these things would likely never survive peer review – the data would be dependent on self reporting and that, as we know, is not viable in this realm.

The FOMO aspect is perhaps the thing we are REALLY dealing with when we look at statistics here. Think about it like cancer. Imagine your doctor says you have cancer and you have to make a choice on a course of treatment. The doctor says that one course has a 10% survival rate, but that you will not suffer long term health implications, and another course has a 40% survival rate, but there are long term health implications… and only you can make the choice. There is no right answer, but I guarantee what you will ruminate on is the FOMO no matter which course you choose. (If you’re like me anyway.). R is a choice that comes with HORRIBLE side effects, but, on the balance, MIGHT be better than divorce depending on what you believe is important in your life. This might be children, finances, home, lifestyle, friendships, relationships with other people… if you lose the marriage then things will be impacted in those areas, so, on the balance, R might be the better deal to you (hence the ‘wait six months’ trope). But, it becomes circular when you bring statistics into this… you’re looking for confirmation bias to affirm you made the right choice to try R. If you go to D, then you look at statistics for R and sometimes regret your decision because of all you lost in the D (or at least some do, I think). Statistics here really only are used as confirmation bias when you start to go down the line on either option. The issue is that without taking level and commitment to fixing marriage into account, the statistics are particularly useless and lead to a more acute feeling of FOMO through the time period after making the decision…. “oh, if only I had stuck it out I would have been Red and it would have been amazing… like 10% of the people reporting for this survey.” “Oh, if only I had divorced I would be happy when I am not stuck in a ‘meh’ marriage and the kids are almost grown up.”

The FOMO angle is us trying to use statistics to be comfortable with the decision our heads already made, and sometimes kicking ourselves for the path we think we should have chosen. We should all give ourselves grace to think that we made the best decision with the information we had at the time. R might have been a nightmare with the level and commitment factors we observed. D might have been the wrong decision as we miss our partners.

When these surveys come out, the people that take them are likely looking to either justify the path they chose or the feel guilty about the path they chose. I think it’s nearly impossible to get to the root of such a complicated feeling with a questionnaire.

Then there’s the ROI for either course. This goes back into FOMO, to an extent, but when answering these questions I think that we all want to believe we came out “on top.” This could be the reporting of “I am happy with my divorce” or “I am glad I tried R and it worked after a long time.” It’s, again, likely a bit of confirmation bias in the survey response that there is no accurate measure for.

I’ll be brutally honest here with my own situation and how I navigated it. Statistics played a large part in how I looked at it, but I used them differently.

The backstory is that my WW had two LTAs that spanned years each. I suspected more. I desperately wanted to reconcile, even before DDay, because I valued my family more than anything else in the world. I said that I would give it a shot and gave non-negotable conditions to reconcile. I also offered R way, way too soon, because I was sure of my course. The conditions were:

1.) Cut all contact with AP. (I did eventually allow her to call him to have ‘closure’ without violating this tenant.)

2.) Agree to take a polygraph test.

3.) Post nuptial agreement – one that was fair and would have been how it would have turned out anyway in a divorce case. I wanted to make sure she knew I would not fight her on it and she could leave without worrying I would destroy her in court. I wanted to know she was “here” and with me because she actually wanted to be… that was important.

4.) A physical manifestation of her commitment to the marriage.

The terms of this were a logical attempt to gauge the feelings of a person skilled for more than a decade in hiding them.

After six months of trying to R, I found out that she was in contact with her last AP still. I gave her an ultimatum and she crossed the line. That meant I had to follow through with the promise I made her.

At the same time as I found that out, she refused to take the polygraph test. This was a physical manifestation that showed me I did not know what was going on inside her head, and that she did not have feelings for me.

I filed for divorce shortly thereafter.

The statistics that I used were not those ones reported on Google, but rather the statistics in my own marriage that mattered to me.

Could she have “loved” me when she was in an affair? No. What was the statistical relevance for me?

At first, I believed she had been having physical affairs for roughly 20% of our marriage. Well, I can work with that. Then, after a few months, I learned that it was more like 40% of the marriage. I tried to work with that because that was at least less than half. Then, I started to think… well, for at least 80% of the marriage she had been lying to me. I get why, but that’s rough. Finally, when she had contact with AP and refused the polygraph, I had to assume there was more and that likely pushed in infidelity past a statistic where I thought she could remotely have feelings for me. Statistically, there was no way I could continue. What I concluded is that she was in our marriage because she couldn’t figure out a way to get out of it.

And yet, even when I filed, I thought maybe that might change sometime. It did not. She went back to her last AP, and now has moved onto another man. Call divorce an experiment with hard data behind it that is relevant to you. How does the wayward act if you move for it? Does he or she run back to the AP? Well, then maybe that’s the answer. Watch what he or she does after divorce if you need assurance… if they start hopping around then you can rest assured that they really, really didn’t “love” you in the same way you “loved” them. It’s one of those hard evidence things.

There was a story I read that broke my heart. A young couple got married and the wife cheated. The husband divorced and remarried. The WW never remarried, never had boyfriends and waited hoping the BH would come back. She was dying of cancer and only wanted one more day with him before she passed. It really, truly, broke my heart. Honestly, I think that story, if true, encapsulates what love is even after an affair backed up by hard data through time.

Mostly though, I think that the wayward is more concerned about the optics of the situation and the practical repercussions. And, if you divorce, you will see this as the wayward mourning, and then moving on. They may create a better relationship with someone else, but it’s probably not the undying love that we all wish we had.

So, this is a long way of saying this: Choose the statistics that matter for you and define your decision by those statistics. You can’t rely on what other people did before you because the data is unreliable.

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:23 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

No, no, no.

The sentence that stated on 15.6% of the Ms - out of the giant-sized sample of 441 - is followed immediately by a sentence stating that another source reports 60-75% of couples who experienced infidelity stayed together.

There is no justification for accepting either figure.

Recovering from infidelity requires critical thinking and good logic. It requires evaluating what you read and what you're told against verified evidence. It requires questioning everything you think you know. If you don't, you run a giant-sized risk of jumping from a frying pan into a fire.

If you can't verify it, don't rely on it. If you accept either number in the article - 15.% or 60-75%, you need to ask yourself why you accept these numbers, because both are bullshit - one is based on a sample that is too small and unrandom, and one is based on nothing. Why would you base your decision on bad statistics????

And I'm not talking only about infidelity.

Here's what the article actually said:

Statistics vary regarding the percentage of couples who stay together after the heartbreak of infidelity. MSN reported on a small survey conducted by Health Testing Centers, saying:

The survey polled 441 people who admitted to cheating while in a committed relationship, and found that more than half (54.5%) broke up immediately after the truth came out. Another 30% tried to stay together but broke up eventually, and only 15.6% survived this break of trust.

Divorce magazine reports that 60-75% of couples who experience infidelity remained together.

Reread Waggingthedog's post for a great outline of hw to use numbers.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex apDDay - 12/22/2010Recover'd and R'edYou don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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KingRat ( member #60678) posted at 4:46 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

I just looked at a study that found, only 16% of marriages survive infidelity. I guess that 16% includes everything from "better than ever" to "just waiting for my spouse to die". So, if the rule of third applies, only 5.3% of marriage are good or very good after infidelity. That translates into what I figure is a 95% failure rate. Yikes!

That's something the affair recovery industry just doesn't tell you.

Thoughts?

Considering only half of all marriages survive in general, if we apply your rule of thirds, then ~84% of marriages fail regardless of infidelity.

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 5:17 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

There's not really any good longitudinal studies on infidelity with decent n #s with decent p values. Sociology is also considered a squishy science for a reason. Even if we had a decent long term study, do you think data from pre-internet days would be useful in todays world. I think it's safe to say, some survive. Many fail. It's up to the individuals, both working together, in each relationship to work out which.

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HardKnocks ( member #70957) posted at 8:36 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

I think it's safe to say, some survive. Many fail. It's up to the individuals, both working together, in each relationship to work out which.

What it boils down to. So much easier.

BW
Recovered
Reconciled

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id 8639052
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sewardak ( member #50617) posted at 9:26 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

I guess I feel pretty good I'm in that small percent. We're very happy.

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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 10:35 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

Took some digging but found the actual study; this is the quoted "methodology". Highlighted relevance.

We surveyed 441 people who cheated on their significant other and admitted to it. Out of these respondents, 44% were men, and 56% were women. Around 80% were in a relationship, and 20% were married. Our ages ranged from 18 to 70 with an average age of 35 and standard deviation of 10 years. We initially surveyed people on whether they cheated, but only continued to survey the 441 respondents who admitted to cheating on their significant others to explore this specific topic more deeply. Some limitations of this survey-executed campaign include telescoping, which may apply to those who are recalling many years, selective memory, and exaggeration. We also recognize that there is bias because of answers that may be more socially acceptable for our survey respondents to give. We did not statistically test our data nor did we weight our data in any way. This is an exploratory project about what happens to those who cheat and admit to it.

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 10:38 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

We initially surveyed people on whether they cheated, but only continued to survey the 441 respondents who admitted to cheating on their significant others to explore this specific topic more deeply.

Did you happen to catch the original n, that is, how many is that 441 out of?

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forgettableDad ( member #72192) posted at 10:42 PM on Thursday, March 4th, 2021

They don't actually say; the survival rate for marriages is significantly higher than those in a "relationship" though. 13% vs. 26% (for what's it worth with that survey). And, as they've mentioned, they only had a 20% representation of married couples. It's not really a good study on the subject tbh..

****

Just wanted to add. From my experience as a husband who cheated on his wife.. no marriage actually survived infidelity. People survive. People thrive. And People then build a new relationship/marriage if they can and if they want.

[This message edited by forgettableDad at 4:46 PM, March 4th (Thursday)]

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siracha ( member #75132) posted at 1:02 AM on Friday, March 5th, 2021

Well if it helps at all then - all stats show that we all die in the end because noone survives life

Even analytical studies which are powered and blinded and with hard objective end points can be wrong . Infact a key part of stats is the magic p value which is the likelihood of this finding being statistically true but actually nonsensical ( or random)

Here is a better way to see stats - what underlying phenomena could explain these numbers and how relevant is that to your case

For eg Cheaters are often majorly fked up people with long term addiction mood or personality disorders Betrayed partners are often codependents with Foo issues who chronically accept bad behavior patterns . If this isnt you or your partner then you are already the black swans in this scenario .

We live and die with rudimentary skills to even understand the past much less the future . The answer does not lie in finding that one perfect outcome but by being strong enough to be mostly ok across a range of possibilities

No study no martial arts no religion no maths no fortune teller can tell you what your marriage should be worth .

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