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These are indeed good questions to ask her. Thank you! She claims she purchased the choker on Etsy but from everything ive been reading, this sort of thing is given to the submissive by the Dominant. So possibly another lie.

Count on this being a lie. I don't know much about the subculture of BDSM and don't care to know much, but it simply strikes me as a lie. Test the logic here: she just randomly bought a submission choker necklace? Really?

UseTaCould,

It really seems like you're jumping to reconciliation prematurely. You state

At this point im still working towards reconciliation but often wonder many things. I cannot imagine my life without her and I hope that she is as committed to fixing our M as she says she is.

She is NOT committed to fixing your marriage since she is still lying about the extent of the affair. You stated

Lately I have struggled with the BDSM thing big time. This came to light not by her telling me about it but about me finding out.

Hoping she is committed to your marriage is not a sound plan. Rather, you need to set boundaries and consequences, then observe her behavior. Since you cannot "imagine...life without her", she knows she can continue to lie and obfuscate without penalty.

You need to understand everything that happened so you can decide if this is something you can live with and/or forgive. To do that, you really should have her write out a new timeline (with the BDSM activities recently discovered) and explain you'll be scheduling a polygraph to verify completeness and truthfulness. If you don't do this, bank on more trickle truth and ONLY if you discover evidence. The polygraph can also help you understand if she continues to communicate with the OM.

Good luck.

You will find out the details of the BDSM relationship through questioning and poly.

But remember the nature of such a partnering is that “he owns” her. And she got off on it. So while you were living life with her as husband and wife, she was thinking “I’m owned by another, not my husband”. It was a secret shared by them. And through it all she was fine with it making a fool of you. It’s as if she got a tattoo near her privates saying “I’m his, not my husbands”.

That is why I said she needs lots of IC. She needs deprogramming. She actually may still be thinking this way. Ask her how she can prove she is not. He may still be sending signals. Instructions.

It’s impossible to say. This is major trauma you need therapy for. Please don’t ignore that.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:15 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

BTW who is the other BH you mention?

KETRIgHc

I checked Etsy and there are a number of such pieces of jewelry and a few of them match your description.

I did a little reading and discovered that the first step in every master/slave relationship is the signing of a contract. Sample contracts are available on line. Just Google - Submission Contract pdf. Who knew?

Every version of the contract requires the wearing of a collar 24/7. Collars can be made to look like jewelry to keep the relationship discreet but any member of the BDSM community would recognize it immediately and know she is submissive to a particular master.

I bring this up because if she has signed such a contract, it may explain the way she communicates with you. The contract limits communication and requires the protecting of the master under all circumstances.

These contracts are lengthy, detailed, and quite specific, what is agreed to is astounding and actually scary.

I don't know if her specific contract limits what she can say. If you ask is she has signed such a contract, she might be able to answer you. Regardless, it might help you understand what you and she are facing.

Ask her for her copy of the dom sub contract, but the dom probably has the only copy... and if Etsy is like every other thing on the web there will be a record of her buying it. Tell her show you where she got it and don't accept I don't remember as an answer.

All her dom has to have done is get on a plane to CO to consummate the vows, do you recall any over nights or all day "work events" that your WW went on in the last 2 to 3 years?

There are lot of layers to your wife's affair. It will take a while to unravel, is it worth it to you to spend 2-4 years recovering then the rest of your marriage keeping an eye on her.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 8:22 PM, July 10th (Saturday)]

The contract limits communication and requires the protecting of the master under all circumstances.

These contracts are lengthy, detailed, and quite specific, what is agreed to is astounding and actually scary.

Gross.

Good grief if this is the case, ditch her and move on with your life.

Let her wallow in the mire and dirt of the existence she has created for herself.

If there are kids involved see an attorney about whether you can use this to get sole or primary custody. Court discovery could compel the revelation of the contract under penalty of perjury and favor your custody of the kids.

In my view there's probably very little point trying to reconcile with a woman this lost. Cut your losses. Don't succumb to the sunk costs fallacy.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:44 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

She tells me she loves me and I tell her I love her too because its true I do still love her so very much.

I understand how painful the shattering of illusions can be.

But you might consider that what you really love is the wife you thought you had, as opposed to this duplicitous creature who has donned a submission slave collar for another man and then lied to your face thousands of times.

Read the short book “No More Mr. Nice Guy” and ask yourself if there's some of this tendency in yourself.

[This message edited by Thumos at 7:35 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

I used to work with a guy that was into that stuff. Once you know they like that stuff it changes your perception of them.

Haven't talked to him in over 20 years. He liked women walking on his back wearing high heels.

Evidently it's very popular with local group 'parties' plus multiple conventions around the country where vendors sell equipment and costumes. And where people can match up.

There's a nationwide club called the "Black Rose".

Is she a member? IMO dealing with a fetish complicates things (it won't go away just because you R).

Maybe it would help to read their web site. They claim that it's not about sex. And maybe it's not about sex for your wife - but you don't know the OM's motives and how far your wife would go in her role as his sub.

This stuff is also discussed in psychology studies. Maybe you can google their research and findings.

They claim that it's not about sex. And maybe it's not about sex for your wife - but you don't know the OM's motives and how far your wife would go in her role as his sub.

Even if it is “not about the sex” (which is kinda odd considering BDSM is saturated in obsession with sex) do you want to stay with a woman who put on a slave collar for another man for who knows how long?

Let's say it isn't about sex at all (but your WW’s illicit relationship with this man - men? - is almost entirely sexual in nature). Set aside the sex: your wife considers another man her master.

You cant nice her back and boy, that truism rings out strongly here. You can't negotiate attraction. Why try to dissuade a woman so far gone?

Give her exactly what she wants and let her wallow in the filth of the bed she has made.

That's what you are dealing with here.

Can we be clear on one thing? This was a sexual affair. The distance and that the sex was virtual only defines what type of sex took place during the affair.

If your wife and OM had been in the same room but in opposite corners and said the things shared or shown the actions in the images… would you still be calling this an emotional affair?

The moment any of the content is designed to create a sexual tension or emotion… it’s sexual. Emotional affairs are of a completely different nature, and although they often lead to sexual affairs then are not so by default. Your WW and OM had interactions of a sexual nature, therefore a sexual affair.

If you were to send someone a text saying “I want to f@ck you” that person could file for sexual harassment – not emotional harassment. Content matters. It defines what it is.

Those that are into the BDSM lifestyle insist it’s not only or even about the sex, but about the trust, the dominance, the power, the lack of power… I once even read an interview with a housewife who – once her husband left for work (and with his acceptance) started receiving her paying customers that simply wanted to be dominated. Since she never took off her clothes and there was no “sex” (as in penetration or direct touch) her husband was OK with things. The customers paid good money to be tied up, spanked, made clean the house… whatever. I can tell you from personal experience that there is no sexual arousal from cleaning a bathroom or doing the dishes for me!

However… With all that time since they broke up then for him to have this hold on her… She needs to go real deep to realize what she wants. If shes into the BDSM lifestyle and needs that in her life… well… for me that’s like when a partner turns out to be gay. Time to accept reality and cut losses.

Trickle truth is a bitch, but truth is needed to get some resolution.

I would seriously consider setting her some boundaries. Like give her 30 days to fully realize why she so eagerly jumped back into the passive role of being dominated and controlled by her ex. What is it in that life that she missed? Why did she go there? How can she convince you she’s taken back the control he had? Does she want YOU in that role? Are you into that? Could that work out? Can she be without it? Is this something you two could act out behind closed doors, or is this best left in the past?

Make it clear that IF she needs this lifestyle and IF she can’t convince you she’s free of OM dominance then the honest and best next step would be to end your relationship. No threats, no drama, just simple consequence of incompatible sexual and emotional requirements.

As usual, Bigger has some great advice. I would only add that the term “lifestyle” was coined by 20th century psychology. Before then it's dubious as to whether anyone considered themselves as having a lifestyle. It seems a softer way of saying “worldview” or “life philosophy.” When you put it in these terms things become a little more clear.

BDSM isn't a hobby. I like board games. It's a hobby. It's not a way of life. BDSM is a way of life that reflects a worldview, a way of seeing the affairs of mankind, the state of the world, the nature of men and women, the way that people should relate to each other.

It reflects a philosophy. It goes deep. It isn't a game when your wife decided to immerse herself in a slave-master relationship and donned an outward symbol of this every day, all day.

Then the question becomes is this life philosophy compatible with your life philosophy and worldview? Does it comport? Or are they diametrically opposed?

In other words your wife has a lot of splainin to do and writing it off as a lark or an impulse purchase on Etsy simply won't do. Your brain simply won't allow it.

Do you have the patience to see if a woman so deeply immersed in a life philosophy is able to change her very character, the fundamental drivers that make her who she actually is, rather than who you wish she was?

If you look at my tag line I believe that pressure reveals the fundamental nature of a person. Your wife's fundamental nature is being unveiled. Do you like what you see? Do you want it in your life?

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:57 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

How are you doing? Hope you are doing ok.

Thank you mod for waking up my post. I'll have an update here in a few. Stay tuned

Hi all, its been awhile and Im still healing ( aren’t we all?). Been through a lot of counseling since my last post. Ive hesitated posting here for fear of my WW reading it but Ive found no evidence of her visiting this website like I originally suspected. (I monitor her internet traffic) So here I am and wanted to update you all. Looking back through my posts I found where the collar necklace was indeed purchased by her on Etsy, it was not given to her from the OM,not that it makes much of a difference. (she showed me the transaction for proof. ) She also wrote me a letter of commitment and read it to me word for word of her commitment to me and only me and to our marriage. She has shown me that she is working hard and is committed. I got my timeline, although I realize there is probably a lot in that timeline that runs deeper than what I got but I got a timeline. I have been happy with that and have tried to move on.

It got hot and heavy in Oct of 2019 and there was lots of disgusting video sex that took place. My wife did things with her body that I never thought she would do. And yeah he would tell her he owned her time and time again. He would command her to do things with me when her and I were to get intimate. He would continue to command pics from her too. When Covid hit in 2020 I started working from home. She had no way to video sex with him anymore, at least from the house. The video sexting would all take place after I would leave for work, there was about a two hour window before she had to get ready for work after I left. Since I have worked from home she said the video sexting had come to a stop but I know she still continued to sext him pics when she got a chance. I do know that she still had a strong relationship with him even though the video sex slowed down. And that damn collar necklace! I found selfies of her that she took and just about every picture she was in during family gatherings etc. from 2019 to D-day 5/2021 she was wearing it. It almost never came off of her neck! The affair is bad enough, the video sex is bad enough, but her wearing that collar necklace was the worst part of this whole thing! I also found selfies of her that I never got, so Im sure he got them.

Fast fwd to now.

We are still together and have had some good quality time together, however as of late things have been hitting my gut and I realize this is all part of the process too. I have scoured everything from internet logs to devices and to date have no evidence of any further contact between the two of them. She has gone out of her way to show me she is sorry and I can see that she is remorseful, we have worked a lot in counseling. However I still feel in my gut that they may have had contact since D-Day. I have found no proof but why is this feeling in my gut. Is it a premonition or paranoia or is it real? I do not know but I still wonder.

The one big thing that still hits me hard is the loss of the Love Joy. They say Joy is being happy for no reason at all you are just happy. Well with my wife before D-day I had that with love. I was in Love for no reason at all. That was lost after D-day and even though I still feel love for her, I do not get that joyful love. Its gone and I may never get it back. I wrestle with that because it was great. When I think about what would my life be if I decided to leave if I could ever find that joy again. I dont think that I ever could with anyone else again. I have learned that humans are human and what I had was a fantasy. It was false for me to ever have that with her but I did. I was a fool to live in that Joy although it was pure bliss and I miss it. I often look at her and realize she is not the person I believed her to be, she never was and probably will never be. Can I live with that? I still dont really know but Im pushing forward. I feel like im still in the early part of this thing even though its been 5 months since D-Day. I do desire to spend the rest of my life with her, but I wonder if something will get in the way, along the way. I realize this want comes at a price. I know I will always feel this. I do know that if there was ever communication again between her and the OM that I would be done for sure. It would be the answer to my unknown destiny in this marriage.

As for the OBS if you have read my previous posts I never believed that I actually was in contact with her and that it was the OM who was responding from her FB account when I reached out to let her know. After some digging I could never find her phone number but I did find their address. I typed up a letter and included some of the chats and sent it to her. I did this just today so Ill keep you all posted if she gets the letter.( that is if she responds to me after getting it) Hopefully it won’t be intercepted too but even if it is and that POS reads it he will know this hasn’t been swept under the rug on his end. He thinks he got away with it and maybe this will scare him. I take a little pleasure in that fact. Her FB post are full of how proud she is of her husband, blah blah blah so I KNOW she still doesnt know. Maybe now she will and I feel bad for her to get the news but IMO she NEEDS to know.

[This message edited by UseTaCould at 1:23 AM, Thursday, November 18th]

I'm not a violent guy at all, but I feel like I might have made an exception in this case with a trip to the other state. I just read through this and can state that you're a better person than I am.

I hope things continue to get better for you.

Good for you to keep trying to alert the other BS. Keep it up until you hear back.

Your wife seems to be actively working to become safer and to help you heal. That's a good thing but it doesn't work overnight or even 5 months... but you hopefully will continue your healing and feel better bit by bit.

The fetish thing is a double sided blade. What could be good about it? Well it may not actually be "good" but it is at least a definitive reason why she sought out what she did. You may not fully understand it but at least it is something concrete; plenty of BS never really get an answer they believe.

The downside is that if your WW actually has a fetish, which it sounds like she does, that isn't usually an itch that can be scratched just once. So what's the plan for that? Is IC adressing it? Can she work to relate the underlying feelings to something else in your sex life? The trauma she's caused you will probably be all she needs right now but in the future, who knows.

Good for you for trying to inform the OBS. It is the honourable thing to do. She should know about the things in her life that could affect her. I hope very much that she gets your message. At any rate, you've tried.

Your gut is bothering you about whether there has been any more contact between them since DDay. Have you considered a polygraph? I didn't read back through all of the posts and don't remember since it's been quite some time since you last posted. Consider it. If it's something that is affecting you it won't go away until the itch is scratched.

I know what you mean about the Love Joy. The deep, committed love decision that isn't returned. It's devastating. I don't know if it can ever be reclaimed after such a betrayal. I'm sorry but you should know that I'm divorced and determined it never would be.

Best wishes, sir. Onward and upward no matter what your path.

So what has kept you with her UseTaCould?

It really sounds like you are just treading water whilst she is doing what she does and are in that weird limboland - afraid to move forward and unable to move back.

Quite a few folks here have commented that you leapt to R very quickly, even given the strange relationship she had/has with her ex and I'm in agreement with them. There is much, much more here that appears to be going on and that Dom stuff is something that gets ingrained with people.

So have you checked for things like burner phones? Do you have access to bank accounts and can see what she is spending money on? Does she have a portion of pay split off into a secret bank account that is allowing her to fund her now better hidden secret life? Are you absolutely sure that her dom doesn't still have control over her?

Doms are very, very reluctant to give up control - it's part of their psyche after all and they can and will sit back until the smoke clears and jump straight back into it again. This guy plays a very long game after all and a FB post and a mailled letter is just going to be fuel to him. And sadly your wife, regardless of what she says or what you think, is hooked.

Sorry to be a pessimist but I've always been of the opinion that when the gut is uneasy, things are happening just out of sight.