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Don’t tell your WW you contacted the OBS. if your WW complains, then they are still in contact.

She is being very sneaky,

You can’t reconcile with sneaky. She needs to rebuild trust.

I suggest you ask for a full written timeline of all her affairs and explain that what could break the marriage is the lying and sneakiness.

If she has children from a previous relationship, do you know why that relationship ended?

This bothers me when people say someone either had an emotional affair or a physical affair. An affair is an affair. It means they took time, energy, love and attention away from you and put it somewhere else. You need to be very clear on what you can and cannot live with. I don’t mean to be negative but I have seen so many marriages break up because one of them really connects with a high school sweetheart. It really is an interesting phenomenon. It’s also tragic because often their children are left in the wake of this and the bs are completely blindsided. If this is been going on as long as she says it has this woman is very connected to this man. This was not some little fun thing she did as a hobby this is a genuine love for another person. It might be difficult for her to consider breaking up the family because she’s comfortable but she will do it if she wants to. That’s what you need to deal with. I am so sorry to be so negative because I hate it when people come here talking about the pain they are living with. I don’t have it in my past. My husband just had some out of town “things” years ago. I confronted years later. He admitted but we had moved on by then. It alters our perceptions of the people we love. We can never look at them through rose colored glasses again.

To some people it does matter if it’s emotional vs physical. I agree they are both wrong. But we have all seen here at SI the varying degrees of affairs.

For some the physical affair without any emotion (like prostitutes) is something some people can live with.

For others emotional affairs without sexual contact is something they can live with and choose to reconcile with the cheater.

For some any type of affair is a dealbreaker. There is no reconciliation.

Regarding the HS romance thing. I don’t get it. I really don’t see it as “the-one that got away.” It’s delusional FantasyLand thinking. My graduating HS class has a page on FB. It’s fun seeing where and what everyone is doing. But there is not one guy I would be interested in romantically (even if I was single). Not a chance.

It’s fun to reminisce. Nothing more.

Actually that was my first impression that OM intercepted

I agree with your conclusion. The OBS' resonse reads exactly like what a paranoid OM might type in as his first response to cover his ass and make the problem go away. Which means he's reading through his wife's FB messages. So.. that opens up other speculation. Let's assume you can't take this message at face value and he's intercepting communication. If he's hovering over his wife's FB account (or whatever method you used to contact her) he knows he had a reason to do it. How did he know to do this? Because someone warned him. Who would warn him? Your wife, apparently. How, though, if she deleted FB? A million other ways-- texting, email, a burner phone. Some secure texting service? A replacement FB account with a different name?

Who knows? It might just like it says, and she responded to a life changing revelation from you with a life changing decision without any proof at all or even questioning who you are. Shrug. I suppose, but I really doubt it. I was sent proof of my wife's antics with another man at a certain event. I didn't believe it at all-- I had to do my own forensic deep dive before I could even consider coming to a conclusion like the marriage was over.

If she you are on FB, her profile might list if she works. If it does, that location might have a work number listed in google. You can call her at work easily enough. It might helpful fo you just to hear her voice say "Yes, I'm X's wife and I got your message" one time.

I wonder what a deep dive into her phone records would look like?

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 10:37 AM, May 14th (Friday)]

Listen to Bigger. You need to start drawing boundaries with your WW.

Your W has issues that she needs to address why she did this. If I had to guess it is likely partially tied to a desire to "turn back the clock," to simpler time where she had whatever she feels she lacking.

It explains it, but doesn't excuse it. She still has to take full responsibility for her choices. After all it was several choices she made. She doesn't get points for any mitigating factors. She did this for over a year ? Yeah plenty of time to at least ponder what she was doing was wrong. I mean if she thought it wasn't wrong why did she hide it ?

She communicated with an old boyfriend and continued to escalate that over a long period of time.

The meet up ? Hoe does she know she wouldn't have slept with him ? Clearly she had many moments that felt wrong yet she decided to do them anyway. Why was this time different ?

As are about opportunity as much as anything. HE is from out of town. He likely has a hotel room. . .It doesn't take a genius to figure out what the implications of such a meeting are, right ?

You need to set some boundaries with your WW. Not to punish her, but to protect yourself from further hurt. If she can't take responsibility then you have to do what you need to do to get out from infidelity. Keep all options on the table, but make it clear that she destroyed the M with her choices and actions that followed those choices. Don't accept any responsibility for her choice to have an A.

I know you get this, but, "It did not mean anything," is damage control bullshit. If it meant nothing then obviously it did not need to be hidden or would have carried on for such a long time. If it did not mean anything why did it keep escalating ? She made a moral choice to accept the risk (however minimized in her mind) about your life, without involving you in the process. You did not get a choice. Your choice is to continue the M or end it without her getting a say.

Her words and actions do not line up. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. She is still lying to you.

I am sorry you are here, but I am glad you found us. I am a fully reconciled BH. It takes two people committed to fixing themselves and then the M to get a chance at R. You've experienced enough already that you are justified if you want to leave the M. It is a very confusing time and I think an IC is the best resource for you to be able to get at what you actually want.

Numb, she did it because she wanted to. There are very strong bonds formed in hs. This man means enough to her to throw away a marriage. I know of several cases where the 35/40/45 year old reconnected with their hs sweetheart and dumped a perfectly good family. There are several articles about this. It’s almost imprinting.

I just want you to be very aware of this to help you make rational decisions about your future.

Also, I feel that when a person gives attention to another without the knowledge of their spouse it’s just as painful as a physical affair. Secrets, lying kill marriages.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 10:44 AM, May 14th (Friday)]

Right now you are in a difficult situation because you only have part of the story. Did they ever meet? Was the message intercepted by the AP? Maybe. Maybe not.

Although I agree that an EA is just as much an affair as a PA (so don't let her minimise it, because there was also intent), personally if you've caught it before it became a PA then that can only be a good thing. Dealing with the physical side is another hugely hurtful and difficult thing, and one that hopefully you won't have to deal with.

Connecting with an old flame/sweetheart is just hugely dangerous. Affairs are largely based on fantasy (which is why so few survive if the Wayward and AP run off together) and what could reflect 'fantasy' more than meeting someone who reminds you of your youth, carefree days, young love?

Funnily enough, they never seem to remember the reasons they split up in the first place! Like because the AP was an arsehole!

My advice would be to be hyper-vigilant right now. Look at timelines, try and recall times if you or she were away. Ask her directly. Interrogate technology. Make her aware that the consequences of not being open are worse than the consequences of telling the truth (or as near as you are going to get it).

And work out your own dealbreakers. At the end of the day, this is about what you want and she needs to understand that.

Ex partners are very dangerous, as I know to my cost, as is social media. Things can go from 0-60mph every easily.

So true. I also learned this fact the hard way. Social media is indeed the devil’s playground. For people with an external locus of control and poor boundaries, a flirty private message from an old flame can be the spark that ignites the EA; the EA can fan a ridiculous fantasy into a PA. My FWH had a year long texting EA topped off by a brief PA with a HS GF who fished him on Facebook 43 years later. Playing marriage police can be exhausting and make you ill, and if she wants to take it underground she will. But you can still insist on a social media moratorium to demonstrate your resolve. My H deleted ALL social media accounts immediately following D Day. I realized surveilling him was a fool's errand BUT I had the full story and consciously made the decision to not play marriage cop. You're not there yet, so she should do whatever it takes to help you feel safe. Her willingness to go cold turkey on social media, at least for a while, could be a litmus test.

You've received excellent advice here; I don't have much to add. Just wanted to reach out and add my voice to the chorus that, yes, affairs with a HS flame years later are all about fantasy. Texting/Instant Messaging are blank screens onto which your wife could project whatever she wanted to. Texting someone is not the same as being in a real, live relationship (duh). They don't have a CLUE who the other person is anymore. Hence, fantasy.The quickest way to pop the fantasy bubble is to drag the A into reality. Contacting the OBS was a great start on outing the A. Hope there's a way to verify the OBS contact. Work phone? Registered letter?

Funnily enough, they never seem to remember the reasons they split up in the first place! Like because the AP was an arsehole!

Also true. My H's AP wasn't a long lost first love, they weren’t kept apart by cruel fate. Their high school liaison ended when she cheated on him and dumped him for another guy! Figures, right? I don't think they’d spared each other much thought over the last 43 years until she fished him. Interesting that he so easily discounted his direct experience with her poor character when he willingly took that first step over appropriate boundaries. The OM here does sound like a POS. He needs to be exposed as such.

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this nightmare. Keep posting! It will help. Do figure out what your deal breakers are, and start drawing boundaries with your wife. As Chelsea9 said "at the end of the day, this is about what you want and she needs to understand that."

PS:

How did both of your former marriages end? Knowing this information could be helpful.........

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:31 PM, May 20th (Thursday)]

Sorry this happened to you. You don't deserve it. The very same thing happened to me. My wife said the same things and dismissed it all as nothing.

Please read up on narcissism, specifically covert narcissism. It probably applies to your wife. This is a disorder and her lack of empathy seems to indicate she is on this spectrum.

I will tell you, after separating from my wife, she finally has agreed to go to counseling. We have 3 kids and our marriage may survive. If we did not have kids, I don't think it would have.

She needs to now make it right. She needs to put effort into the relationship. She needs to earn your trust back. If she can't do that or is not willing, then, you likely know the right steps forward.

Please get counseling - you are going to need help and guidance. Please read up on CPTSD as you likely will experience some of those symptoms if she is a narcissist.

Take care or yourself. Please get help.

Regarding the HS romance thing. I don’t get it. I really don’t see it as “the-one that got away.” It’s delusional FantasyLand thinking.

Aren't most affairs like that?

Everything looks better with 20 years of rose colored glasses.

And another thing, I am about 75% sure that it was the BF who replied. Is there another way to contact the OBS? Check her FB to see what it says about their relationship.

Aren't most affairs like that?

Absolutely! But ain't no FantasyLand quite as fantastical as affairs with former HS or first loves. Brutal to be the BS in this scenario - where WS is obviously chasing sparkly rainbows and unicorns in a futile effort to recapture that old feeling. Willing to risk a marriage and destroy their partner in a cliched, patently ridiculous attempt to relive the past. WS in this version of FantasyLand allow rose colored memory of the past (and the fantasy of a possible future?) to interfere with the present in such a way as to jeopardize the lives they have now.

Dragging the WS back to reality (assuming UsedTaCould wants to do this) could be a potent way to neutralize this type of A. Out the A. Expose the AP as a POS, etc. Tear down FantasyLand.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 6:34 PM, May 20th (Thursday)]

I did hear back from the POSOM's W and it was strangely a short message basically saying "Sorry this has happened to us, its over between me and my H I wont put up with his cheating A**.

Hey @UseTaCould I have a question. Did you tell your wife that you contacted the OM spouse? If not if she says anything you will know that they are still in contact.

I really appreciate the support and advice from everyone. I am so still in shock about it all. I wake up every morning dealing with it as mornings really make me think. There is a part of my W that I do not know, a part of her who I never knew, thus the shock of this whole thing. A piece of me is gone now that piece that made me feel whole our entire relationship. At times I feel like there is a stranger in my house ( remember the old Ronnie Milsap song?)

As for being a marriage cop, yeah I get it, its too exhausting and will drive one insane. Its not me and not who I am. I do starve to know information and I do starve to try to make sense of this whole thing. I do know in my heart of hearts that it will never make sense unless I just chalk it up to thats how all humans are. I know that isnt true because its not how I am. I have been 100% faithful and 100% committed to my marriage all of these years.

As for the POSOM and his wife, yeah I am almost 100% sure it wasnt her responding to my message chat to expose the whole thing. I think POSOM responded to it. It just doesnt add up. I do not have any other info on her without doing extensive background checks. Is it worth it? Maybe if I knew for sure that she knew. I still suspect there may be contact between my WW and POSOM, I dont have any concrete evidence but just a gut feeling. This all was too powerful to just stop IMO without one of them giving in. But who knows I could be totally wrong. I do know and do feel like this EA was very strong given what I do know about my W and her nature. If im wrong about that then Ive been living a lie my entire marriage, but hey, maybe I have.

I havent responded much just due to the shock of it all and trying to work on the marriage. She tells me she loves me and I tell her I love her too because its true I do still love her so very much. She also told me more than once that its over and she wants me vs him or anyone else. I want to believe that I do but when someone who betrayed your trust is asking you to trust what they say, how do you know? Im also hesitant to post here if in the event she finds this site and has read my posts. I wish there was an underground part of this Forum to post without the public seeing it all. So I post conservatively. Some of you have PM'd me and thank you your advice is very helpful! I am seeking counseling for those who have recommended it I have an appointment next week. Thank you all again! Use-ta-Could

She tells me she loves me and I tell her I love her too because its true I do still love her so very much. She also told me more than once that its over and she wants me vs him or anyone else. I want to believe that I do but when someone who betrayed your trust is asking you to trust what they say, how do you know? Im also hesitant to post here if in the event she finds this site and has read my posts. I wish there was an underground part of this Forum to post without the public seeing it all. So I post conservatively. Some of you have PM'd me and thank you your advice is very helpful! I am seeking counseling for those who have recommended it I have an appointment next week. Thank you all again! Use-ta-Could

It's possible for someone to think they love you, but do things to you that bring great harm.

Be careful not to project onto her what you feel. We know objectively that her description of love does not line up with your actual understanding, because she already betrayed you.

-Have you asked her to take a polygraph?

-Has she scheduled a full STD panel, which she should have no problem doing if no sex happened?

-Has she written out a detailed narrative timeline for you?

-Has she turned over all social media accounts and worked to forensically restore her conversations with him and turn that over to you?

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:24 PM, May 20th (Thursday)]

Most people haven't been doing a lot of traveling by air.

What excuse did your wife give for the old BF (who lives in Florida) visiting Colorado?

Were you able to confirm that the primary reason for the OM's trip was not to meet your wife?

Talk to his wife. The circumstances behind his trip is something his wife could provide.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:22 AM, May 21st (Friday)]

My WS was dumb enough to ask if I minded if she went to dinner with her old BF who was coming to town in a few day

s.

Seeking your approval is a common cheater tactic.

Seeking your approval was not stupid. On the contrary seeking your approval was very bold and is evidence of how strong her determination was to meet this guy.

She intentionally created a narrative that this relationship was harmless. For months, she intentionally lead you to believe that he was just a harmless old BF from HS. All the while deleting texts and covering up a secret sexual relationship with this guy.

Seeking your approval was intended to reduce any suspicion you had. She anticipated that you'd agree outright (which you did) or if that didn't work, she could eventually guilt you into agreeing to the meet.

Seeking your approval also provided a cover story to justify spending time with the OM and being seen in public.

She also told me more than once that its over and she wants me vs him or anyone else. I want to believe that I do but when someone who betrayed your trust is asking you to trust what they say, how do you know?

You have no basis to trust her yet.

It's important that it's over. But that's just the start of a years long difficult process for her to rebuild your trust - which includes fixing herself so she doesn't repeat.

Many cheaters don't intend to exit the relationship. Especially if the OM isn't financially capable of supporting her and/or interested in leaving his own family?

Therefore in order to prove to you that she's a safe partner going forward (and will not cheat again), she needs to do more than say she chose you, or loves you, or is embarrassed, regrets hurting you and will never to it again ... etc.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 8:19 AM, May 21st (Friday)]

I havent responded much just due to the shock of it all and trying to work on the marriage. She tells me she loves me and I tell her I love her too because its true I do still love her so very much. She also told me more than once that its over and she wants me vs him or anyone else. I want to believe that I do but when someone who betrayed your trust is asking you to trust what they say, how do you know?

This is the classic conundrum in trying to reestablish trust with someone who casually betrayed your trust at the deepest level. It's just foolish to regard the word of the one person in this mess who was MOST invested in lying and cheating on you as being trustworthy, just because he/she says so. Trust doesn't work like this. Trust can get destroyed in an instant and it takes literally YEARS to build it back. So, no.. I would believe her word right now, no matter how she phrases it. Watch what she DOES, not what she SAYS, if you want to rebuild trust

She tells me she loves me and I tell her I love her too because its true I do still love her so very much. She also told me more than once that its over and she wants me vs him or anyone else. I want to believe that I do but when someone who betrayed your trust is asking you to trust what they say, how do you know?

Words in these situations are meaningless because all cheaters lie a lot. Most want to believe so bad they will swallow the lies because the alternative is so unbelievably hard to take.

Actions are all that count.

IMO the only way to try and end the affair is contacting the other spouse. It sounds like you tried upfront but it’s doubtful. Put the effort in now or you may pay later.

Hard to tell from your posts, but has your WW given you full access to all of her electronics and social media with all passwords? If not why not? And no, privacy is no excuse. She had privacy before and used it to cheat. If she can’t accept that as a consequence she’s going to have to (gasp) be open with her betrayed husband that tells you a lot.

Has she read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald?

Has she written a timeline including any inappropriate actions since you’ve been in a committed relationship?

Has she agreed to a polygraph to verify the timeline?

What is she doing to make you safe in this marriage?

[This message edited by asc1226 at 9:43 AM, May 21st (Friday)]