SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A lot of good advice. And, it's almost like you guys are in my head.

So much here to even try and respond to.

Come to think of it, do any of these issues sound similar to your mid-life crisis associated with your children leaving home?

This in particular snapped something into place for me. Some of my fear is definitely this. I am not afraid of cheating again, I seriously would rather someone hook my eye with a fishing hook and remove it as slowly as they could. Seriously. But, this is a lot of change at once. Leaving a job I have worked for almost 20 years, Leaving our home we raised our kids in, and leaving my (albeit limited) support. It is very similar to some of the things that really spun me into that crisis that I didn't know how to deal with to begin with.

So, for those saying it's the fear of the unknown, I have to say that's probably the biggest piece of all of it.

I know you think you've got a handle on this shit and strongly suspect that you're just not willing to admit to yourself that understanding a journey and walking that journey are two very, very different things.

This is 100 percent accurate. I know the steps and I make them because I know what they should be. But, the logical and the emotional, no those will not line up for a long time. Sometimes I don't even post because when I try to go to the emotional, the logical takes over when I write. If I wrote only the emotional I am a car wreck, but when I do that I read it and I just know better. IF that makes sense. Doesn't mean I don't still feel it, but it comes out as non-sense.

There's no way to know HOW you're going to be feeling about your WH in a few years' time. If you're happy in your job, better to keep it for as long as it makes you happy. It's hard to find really good work as we get older. And in terms of giving up home and roots?... at six years out, I can tell you that there's no way I would do that. Sometimes, the love doesn't survive the betrayal... and it takes YEARS to die. That's not to say there's no love at all, or caring, or concern... just that it isn't enough to be together 24/7. With hindsight being what it is, I'd wait at least ten years to see how I felt.

Nope there isn't any way. My short temper with him right now isn't warranted by what he is doing or not doing. It's just there. It feels a lot like when you are growing up with your sibling and they want to be in your space and any attempt towards that gets thwarted with an over reaction. Can't give them an inch or they think it's cool kind of thing.

I don't understand the rush.

I don't understand making such a HUGE change so soon after a dday

I don't understand why you would become financially dependent upon your WH, with whom you are - understandably - PISSED at.

And - I don't have to understand any of that, it's your life and not mine.

I think it's one of those things where the train left the station on this a long time ago. We have been discussing this as a plan before my affair. It went away for a while, and then as things "calmed down" (well, at least it seemed like it was on the surface, obviously it was all just ramping up), we started re-engaging it. We purchased it at the end of last summer and really just never stopped and took a minute. The youngest is close enough to graduating college was a lot of the planned timing.

There are lots of things that go into this. One, I saw when he purchased the RV kind of as a new beginning. It was hard to let that idea go even after finding out about his affair. It was something I really, really looked forward to and I guess with everything else going on I have clung to that, but in the meantime, we've taken a lot of the big leaps already.

Don't make the mistake of thinking you're any different than the rest of us BS as far as healing from betrayal.

I don't. Early on I guess I was in shock, and there were so many emotions, some of the illogical things that you would expect - I deserved that being a big theme. I have worked through most of that. It was easy to require him the same things that were required of me, because it's easier to see the fairness of that. But, I have given up on "fair" because there is no way to temper your emotions around fair, where there is never going to be "fair".

The longer it goes the more I see all of this and am not blocked by feeling like a hypocrite. Yes, I know, I know. But, feelings aren't going to make sense. I can know all I know logically, it doesn't change the feeling of it.

Let's see ... you have a very high-paying job, you're financially able to leave it, you can buy a new house ... but therapy for 2 is sort of expensive? I guess you could be thinking straight, but it sure looks like you are missing something.... (Obviously, you wrote only about resources, not obligations. I'm asking you to think about the conclusion (that therapy is too much money). IMO, you have no need to defend it.)

I know that doesn't make sense, and that I really don't have to explain it. But, what is actually happening is a huge downsize. No mortgage, no second car, no utilities, we've paid off our debt. The reason I can leave my job is we are willing to give up some of our disposable income and this situation actually costs enough less. I can buy a house because there is a nest egg there. Some for roadside/RV emergencies, but also some for starting over when we are done. This is not expendable money.

Generally speaking, there are other things that went into my decision to go to once a month that I was a bit lazy about explaining. She also has been very encouraging towards me doing this because she thinks that some of these changes may be positive. For example, I can barely concentrate on work and that's not helping me feel better, it's kind of flaring up some shame (my last day is now near). She thinks that this will give me some air and time. She has been a good counselor over the years but I really wonder if I should have moved to someone else for this? She has treated me since early after my dday. (I had someone else initially who didn't want me to confess and I fired them) We would have to sell the house regardless. I don't want to deal with the upkeep any more and it's the scene of the crime which keeps it in my face.

What are your expectations of yourself and your wayward husband? Are you already out of the recovery stage? Has he had the time to truly change? Where were you 7 months out after you confessed? I bet you would have jumped at the chance to leave everything behind and start over. Possibly rugsweep?

Well, I do not expect myself to make a decision about the marriage any time soon. I told someone in PM's the other day that most days I don't think it's going to work. So much damage on both sides. It's not because I can dish it out but not take it. It's more because these are big things to deal with for two individual people and the idea one of us doesn't get there seems pretty likely to me right now. I would say the likelihood of me accepting his situation is probably higher than the other way around. But oddly, I think his commitment to a specific outcome is higher than mine.

At the same time, after having been married for decades and having a long friendship before that, it's weird but the friendship vibe is still there. We get along, we like the same stuff, it's familiar. I kind of think to myself that this is something we've always wanted to do, we can go experience it even if it feels roommate like. I say that because right now that's maybe the best way to describe the vibe at home. It's not that neither of us do romantic overtures but that feels a bit more like one of us deciding randomly on a day to try to get some of the water out of the sinking ship.

Okay I am going to stop and start another, I can't imagine what kind of novel this is going to be.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:59 AM, May 14th (Friday)]

Why are you uncomfortable being mad at him? Anger is very normal for a BS. Especially after the first few months. Why do you feel uncomfortable? You need to get very comfortable with your anger. You need to express it. Sit in it. Process it. And allow yourself to be a BS.

I am uncomfortable with anger in general. I always have been, it comes from foo. I lived in a house full of very emotionally immature people. In fact, I just watched my mom throw a tremendous childlike tantrum when my dad wanted to leave a greenhouse before she wanted to. She was ready to throw him out, she was bawling and catastrophizing. My sister was emotionally and physically abusive to all of us in her teen years. I have very negative connotations with anger and I can't stand certain tones of voice.

The things that created my people pleasing has really kept me from going to the anger place. The fact I can be mad and irritated with him is actually proof of progress.

It really has nothing to do with being a BS or a WS first, that part is just part of my personality. Someone else once asked me in one of my threads if I thought I was better than the BS here who threw plates, or yelled. I was a little taken aback that's what she was reading in what I was writing.

Can you either keep the house or arrange some other living space to return to periodically and reassess? I know that's an added expense, but you're investing in your future here. Whether you end up with R or D, it's not going to go better if things get acrimonious because one or both of you feels trapped. It's worth some outlay to take the pressure off

I think the hard part of this is once you are getting to the opposite end of the country, you kind of want to do the things you hoped to get done there while you are there. In other words, popping back by 2000 miles is a slow process. I have been building my travel rewards so I can fly back and see the kids and I guess for now that will be the kind of "base" that you are saying.

I hear a lot of the same things in the update, hiking, that I hear in my clients who are taking that step into retirement. They are getting ready to spend A LOT of time with their spouse/significant other that hasn't been done, well, ever.

There is the leaving of the job that has provided well for so many years. There is the downsizing of the home that holds memories of so many years. The getting rid of the "stuff" that has accumulated over those years.

There is a great deal of unknown and, as many have already said, that is the greatest of all fears.

Here's what I typically tell my new retirees: this is a scary and exciting new adventure. You've been planning for this. There is a reason that this was part of the plan. Allow yourself to see/feel that initial enjoyment from when the planning started. Give it a little time. If you find out that you don't enjoy it as much as you thought, we can come back to the table and make the adjustments to that plan. You've got this. And, you've got the next decision when/if it comes time to make it. I believe in you.

That is very comforting.

I think it is also true - this isn't something we've decided to do since DDAY this is something we've been preparing for (off and on) for five years.

In the end, I do think it's something I want to do, and its the sort of thing I can't see doing without a partner. There is a lot to it, and we both bring our own pieces to the table that makes it work. Someone else said talking through this gives me a chance to think about what I want out of this ahead of time, and maybe being able to put some parameters in place based on that.

And, so that kind of brings me full circle back to the Humantrampoline quote. This is very eerily similar to some things that brought about the crisis's I was in at the time leading up to me affair. The woman I was at that time did not have the self awareness to really be able to tell you what I want and need. Keeping an eye on that always from now on - that sort of vigilance and being awake - is maybe the thing I can put more confidence in. I was sleepwalking before, and pushing down the good and the bad. So, with what you all have said put together, that is maybe the thing I can focus and build on. I will give that some definite thought.

I plan to talk to him this weekend about all of it. I am going to ask for some specific things:

-If I need to press the eject button to take a trip back to visit family and get away from him, no guilt trips. He stays put, I get on the plane.

-I will stop if this becomes a horrible idea and I am not enjoying myself. I can choose that at any time.

-We need to make some plans in which we can get out of each other's hair some. I don't want it to become only when I am annoyed with him.

-I will think of what else and see what comes up during the conversation.

(And on a final note about the annoyed - someone mentioned telling him and talking about it when I feel that way. I do that some, other times it's just a nebulous "get away from me". Some of it is so petty that even I don't think it's an issue it just bristles me any way)

And at the same time, I am going to go in and give it my best shot.

Sometimes I don't even post because when I try to go to the emotional, the logical takes over when I write.

This really stood out to me, hikingout. It's something I noticed about you a long time ago. I've always been curious to know if you suppress your emotions just as much in your daily life.

It's hard for me to understand because I can be quite the opposite. In my earliest posts, I let all of my emotions spill across these virtual pages, raw and thoroughly unhinged.

Sometimes I get the feeling that you're going through the motions, taking all the steps you believe need to be taken, checking off the boxes, because you believe this will lead you to where you want to go. In general, that's a solid philosophy, applicable to many aspects of our lives.

When it comes to inter-personal relationships, however, there are far too many variables. Although we can try our best to apply logic to our relationships, we are not logical creatures. We are living, breathing, feeling creatures. Emotions are not our enemies; they are our friends. They exists to help us survive.

You need to get very comfortable with your anger. You need to express it. Sit in it. Process it. And allow yourself to be a BS.

You've read this before and not just from me or Hellfire. Your affair and his affair are two separate issues. It seems to me that you won't allow yourself to feel what most other betrayed spouses feel because you believe that as a wayward spouse you don't have that right. Whether or not that's true cannot and will not change the simple fact that you are human and because you are human you are bound to experience trauma much the same as the rest of us.

Life's nodes almost always catalyze deep self-reflection. You are choosing to engage on a rather unorthodox path for the next phase of your life. It's a giant change of paradigm for you. It is natural that you would consider other elements of your life at this time. Given the infidelity in your marriage, this reflection ought to include your marriage.

Reflecting on it, wondering about it, these are good things. You are a highly self-aware individual who lives an examined life. You are true to your process. You'll come out the other end in a place you want to be.

I hear you unhinged on staying logical in my posts. I don't suppress my feelings though. I talk about my feelings so much I actually get fatigued from it. And, I have been more open on my bad days in PM's here.

Generally speaking, when you are typing you have time to write it out and revise it. When you are talking you do not. You are not the only one to comment on this aspect.

The one emotion I am uncomfortable with is anger, but as I already explained above, that's always been there since I was a child. I grew up in a house with a functioning but emotionally absent alcoholic, a mom who didn't finish the 9th grade and still has the emotional maturity of a 13 year old, and a sister who has mental health issues and was disruptive, abusive both physically and mentally. I made myself very small in that environment, and have very negative feelings about anger, yelling, tones of voice, etc.

Feeling anger makes me feel like one of them. Being out of control makes me feel like one of them. I am way more back to the middle rather than on one side or the other than I have ever been in my life.

I used to have issues with crying as well, because any time I cried as a child I was cussed at and told to stop being a baby. The dam broke on that when I went through the emotional exhaustion. I cried all the time after maybe having cried once a year probably on average. After that, I kind of became a crier. I cried so much that first year that I sometimes didn't even have tears. I have gotten over not being able to cry, but the anger I am still working on.

I do not really feel like I have to be angry to get a divorce, or to protect myself or my boundaries, so that also may contribute to what you are talking about. And, I will never make a decision based on emotions moving forward. I have come to believe emotions are just extensions of thoughts, and many of our thoughts can be detrimental and untrue.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:29 PM, May 14th (Friday)]

Reflecting on it, wondering about it, these are good things. You are a highly self-aware individual who lives an examined life. You are true to your process. You'll come out the other end in a place you want to be.

Thank you.

You do not know how much hearing self aware and living an examined life is a really big compliment. Getting to that place has been a very big process and has taken me years. If I could say I had one goal it's to remember I am mine. I keep toying with a tatoo that says that. Until more recently, I have never really internalized how much this is my one journey of a life. It's mine to make whatever I want of it, and every decision adds up to the culmination of that. I think to myself, thanks for finally showing up.

It took me over 2 years and so much self destruction and therapy and books and SI to figure out what I wanted to do with my marriage. I still was hesitant about R when I finally decided to make the leap. I do think you are rushing it, but I understand already having all of these wheels in motion.

I like your plan of having escapes to get away. I think that will help tremendously.

One thing I want to mention as someone else who has struggled with the anger. At one point for me, probably around 6 months out from dday, I started feeling really hateful towards my WH. Everything he did made me angry. I mean EVERYTHING. I hated him and before he was my favorite person who I adored. I went to our MC about it by myself (I see him sometimes as an IC) and he basically got me to realize that a lot of my hate (besides the obvious) came from me feeling stuck and came from the anger I felt at myself for putting myself in this position. I was so mad and hateful towards me for not being pretty enough, good enough, being too blind to sign the signs, etc - and I was just really hateful to ME more than even my WH. I was mad at ME for causing myself to be stuck in this impossible situation where I wanted to leave but didn’t want to break up my family, was a SAHM, etc. The MC helped me to really realize that it wasn’t my fault, I was never in control of my WH, and helped me to forgive myself because if my daughter came to me in this situation I would never blame her for what her husband did.

Anyway, that’s a super long run-on sentence that may not even apply to you - but it helped me a lot with the anger. I really didn’t like feeling hateful. Ever since then, I’ve been mad at times, but I’ve never felt like that again. I’ve been much more at peace. I wish you the very best and I hope you have a wonderful retirement. 💖

HO you just have such insightful statements that really are amazing.

I made myself very small in that environment, and have very negative feelings about anger, yelling, tones of voice, etc.

Is that what is happening now? Do you feel like you need to be small because there is danger lurking around the corner in the form of change that while self-imposed, still represents enough uncertainty that it is somehow threatening?

I will say that packing up and disposing of a lifetime of "things" isn't easy. We at once realize they really don't hold the value we once thought and at the same time understand the change their disposal brings. I suppose we should take this opportunity to be hyper reflective (sounds like you are) to transition more effectively into a new aspect of our lives.

I don't blame you for being on edge a bit from all of this. I think as a BS, at least for me, there is a reconciling with ourselves about what we will and won't accept in our lives and about accepting the extraordinary change infidelity brings. You've got the latter in multiples. It is of course very difficult to navigate.

On this particular issue:

Lately everything he does gets on my nerves. That has never been the case our entire marriage. I hope that is just a phase, but it's concerning that I can't seem to control that feeling or do anything to divert it. I am really not sure what to even do with it.

My suggestion: Exaggerate and add humor.

Explain about a couple annoying things and then set a one minute timer and his goal is to annoy you as much as possible, for the next minute, with one of those specific things.

It brings the issue(s) out in the open, puts some perspective (ie, could be much worse), adds humor and a brief historical parody moment that you can both look back on and laugh about. AND you can critique him and get to complain that he’s not being annoying ENOUGH! Give him pointers on how to “improve” during his next 60 second annoy-fest.

Over time, he’ll get a pretty good idea of how to avoid being annoying but as the result of ongoing inside jokes between the two of you, but he won’t be counter-reacting or defensive due to complaining, accusing, etc.

It’s too bad nothing you do annoys him because that would give him an opportunity to set a timer and egg you on into ultra annoying levels of . . . Leaving wet towels in a clump on the floor? Chewing with food actively falling out of your mouth? Making sure no piece of dirty laundry is actually in a laundry basket? Proving that the best place for dirty dishes is in the sink, not the dishwasher (of course this includes bathroom sinks too)? Perhaps others have additional suggestions?

Perhaps you can reframe anger. Consider it a sign that something is going on in your life that you don't like. Really, that's all it is.

Some things you can change. If you're angry about something you can change, change it or decide to accept it.

Some things you can't change. You can decide to accept those things without getting angry.

Easier said than done, of course, but doable.

HO,

I haven't read this entire thread yet, so... that.

I've been thinking about this post for days now. When I first read it, I had two reactions. One reaction was that I was happy for you. You and I came to SI right around the same time, and so we've had the opportunity to see each other's progress as we moved through "the work" of healing, changing, growing. For five years now, we've both worked hard on ourselves, worked through a lot of personal shit that contributed to the affair and who we were, and worked through R with our spouses. I'm just saying, we've walked in similar shoes, and so I feel that I can relate to where you are at and what you are looking forward to.

ISSF and I just sent our youngest off to college last year, sold our home, moved across the country, and we are discussing our future, where to live, how to retire, what will we do with ourselves and together... it's the next chapter of our lives, and it is both exciting and scary. Doing so in the aftermath of infidelity brings its own unique challenges into play of course. And we continue to work through those. The thing is, we have better tools these days to discuss the things we avoided discussing before. It leaves me hopeful that we can continue to grow and heal and build something new. So when I hear you talk about life in a new paradigm where it is just you two... It sounds exciting, and you both deserve a nice change in life, and a new opportunity to redefine yourselves. You worked hard in life and in your relationship, there should be rewards for that.

That being said, my other first reaction to your post was a gut punch. And I don't get those very often. But I felt that "uh oh" in my belly. And I feel I would be remiss to not mention it.

I think that reaction comes from where your husband is at in his journey. And I'm not laying any blame or judgments here, what's done is done. The thing is, you know from personal experience, how much work and effort you've made in the past 5 years, to get to where you've gotten to. During that time, you've been faithful, and committed to R. You've grown a lot, and have self-respect for yourself and others that didn't exist before.

Your husband has also had 5 years to recover as a BS. But, and this is just my personal opinion, I don't think he really has dealt with it in a healthy way. He had a LTRA instead. So while you were committed to R and to personal change, he was living a double life. Which, to me, means that he is in a wayward pattern of thinking for now. Or at least he had been, for about a year and a half. So to me, that means that he just stopped (I hope) being a WS a few months ago.

Let me ask you, when you read posts from new WS's that are just a few months in and say stuff such as, "Wow, it's only been a few months and R is going great! This is easy! We're gonna move back in together!" how do you react? Is your initial reaction to want to scream, "Wait! No!"? I guess that's where that pit in my stomach comes from. I feel like he hasn't had the time to process what he will need to in order to recover as a WS, and I'm not sure how much progress he made in R from being a BS since he was having an LTRA. Again, no judgment here, the trauma of being a BS is severe and crushing. From what I've seen in my own wife's recovery process, the BS and WS take a similar path to recovery, part of which involves rebuilding one's self-esteem and trust issues. You can't be having an affair and working on self-esteem and trust at the same time. I think he may have work yet to do in those areas.

I can't really advise you either way. Infidelity sucks. Nothing is perfect going forward, there is no path without regret or pain or doubt for either partner. So we have to accept that risk in moving forward, and accept that happiness and even joy can exist in the absence of perfection. So my only advice is to discuss, discuss, discuss and plan out whatever you can. Go in with eyes wide open and ask yourself what, if anything, is being rug-swept. Also, ask yourself what isn't important.

I think your gut will tell you what to do. And just remember, nothing is written in stone. If things are not working out, then change what you need to so that it does. You get to write the story from here on out, so make it a good one.

Re the below, anyone have any thoughts? This technique has helped me turn fraught subjects into discussable things. I’ve found it to be a powerful tool to take the edge off and allow calmer exploration, etc.

But my description might have seemed flippant.

It is not meant to make light of the issues, and shouldn’t do that. Comedic exaggeration simply can allow easier dialogue from a place of humor rather than accusations in turn eliciting defensive responses, etc.

On this particular issue:

Lately everything he does gets on my nerves. That has never been the case our entire marriage. I hope that is just a phase, but it's concerning that I can't seem to control that feeling or do anything to divert it. I am really not sure what to even do with it.

My suggestion: Exaggerate and add humor.

Explain about a couple annoying things and then set a one minute timer and his goal is to annoy you as much as possible, for the next minute, with one of those specific things.

It brings the issue(s) out in the open, puts some perspective (ie, could be much worse), adds humor and a brief historical parody moment that you can both look back on and laugh about.

HikingOut,

A. Thanks for the perspective and wisdom you spend time sharing.

B. If you could provide specific examples of things that get on your nerves, I can provide a sample dialog to better illustrate my point.

It's mine to make whatever I want of it, and every decision adds up to the culmination of that.

So much this.

And this is why you will be awesome, regardless.

Hate to say this, but this is the reason why you don't cheat. Yup, it changed the marriage.

I'm not trying to smack you upside the head with a 2x4, but I have to say this. The day you stepped outside your marriage, broke your wedding vows, and MADE YOUR MARRIAGE AN OPEN MARRIAGE, is a result of how you feel today. Your spouse changed with the affair that you engaged in.

Ask yourself this, would he have gone to another woman to express his pain had you not cheated? Nope. He went there because he couldn't go to you. You absolutely destroyed him.

Now with that being said, ask yourself a couple of questions.

1. Do you want to stay married? If the answer is yes, control your anger, forget and get on with life. (Thats assuming BOTH of you want to stay married and BOTH of you NOW agree never to step outside your marriage).

2. Most marriages FAIL after an affair. Do you want your marriage to fail now? (Even though it was destroyed on the initial affair?). If both you want to work together at this point and stay together, then do so. Hate to say this, but being on this forum asking other people what you should do is the wrong thing to do. You should turn around, go to your husband and TALK TO HIM. Remember you stepped outside your marriage first because you confided in someone else other than your husband. Go to him in this time of need and talk to him. Make him the priority person you need to talk to. Yeah he cheated after your affair, but again it wouldn't happened if you didn't do it first. Go talk to him.

I know my opinions will not be popular here. Heck I go read these forums when I should give them up. Brings back a lot of pain sometimes but it keeps me sharp on watching for red-flags. Perhaps you may need to take a break from these forum, as they can become toxic. Work on talking to your spouse and trying to find away to get past the destruction that both of you have caused in your marriage.

From a guys point of view, if his wife goes to him first and foremost, it will boost your worth to him.

Heck, I'm not a doctor or anywhere close to it. I'm a chump who was cheated on, ended up getting a divorce and found someone else.

My advice for you Hikingout, is that you and your husband need to talk. If you want to stay together, both of you need to forgive each other and move on. Remember he was as hurt when you stepped outside your marriage first. Not defending his actions, but he them probably thought it was ok to step out because you did it first.

Heck as a outsider looking in, it would almost be better if BOTH of you agree to get a divorce to end the "First Marriage". Then if you want to stay together, get married again the say day. Both of you can look at this marriage as you starting over. Agree if that either of you two ever cheats again, you'll divorce. Make that statement mandatory.

Read the forums, you know what everyone says. When someone cheats they kill the marriage. Your marriage was killed when you stepped out and it was further killed when your husband followed what you did.

Re-create the marriage and start over. Both of you should know by now the dangers of seeing and confiding in others without going to the other first.

Wow long winded post by me.

My advice, short and sweet. Do you want to stay married? If the answer is yes, forgive your husband and move on. (Keep in mind after your affair, he was not in the right state of mind) Keep telling yourself he wasn't in the right state of mind and use it so that you can forgive him. If he's forgiven you, let it go. By harboring these feelings you two can never move on.

You want to move on right? You're posting here, everyone can see that you want to continue with him, so continue with him. Forgive him, let it go. I know it will be hard, but you gotta do it if you want to continue. Has he truely forgiven you and let it go also?

Ask yourself this, would he have gone to another woman to express his pain had you not cheated? Nope. He went there because he couldn't go to you. You absolutely destroyed him.

Complete speculation.

Bottom line... there was NOTHING inside that guy telling him 'no', as witnessed by the FACT that he went through with it. He's got no higher ground to stand on. Having integrity is like being a little bit pregnant, right? You either are or you're not. He's not a goddam jot better than his wife, and if you ask me, he's a good bit worse. Because HE KNEW the devastation and he still did it. And I'm going to stop now because I know HO doesn't like it, but I find her cheating H to be utterly sadistic, accepting her many apologies and all her hard work, her devotion to him and the marriage, all the while KNOWING that he was fucking around... and for like a year and a half to her six weeks. Knowing what I know about the trauma of adultery, I wouldn't inflict it on my worst enemy, let alone someone I claimed to love.

Look...I'm not saint but I didn't cheat on my husband...becuase I didn't want to feel disgusting.

I am not in the camp of " I love him so I wouldn't do it him". I most certainly do wish the pain of infidelity on OW and those who participated in my WH bullshit.

And I wish my WH knew how it felt becuase the maybe he would have stopped his bullshit long ago. I am not in camp of believing that WS don't know the harm they are inflicting...they just want there needs met above all. Whether is a A or an RA.... they know. That's why they lie and cover it up.

HO husband's made a CHOICE. No one forced him. And it's not even close to her fault that he made that choice.

She did her work to be a better person. He does not get a free pass to not do his.

HO...continue to move forward with dignity and honesty (as you always do).

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 7:00 PM, May 17th (Monday)]

Listen to the little voices. Can you put this off for a while. Can you not sell the house. Maybe take a leave of absence from work to try it out?

You need to heal first.

Wow long winded post by me.

All you had to write was "I advise you to rugsweep." Since you claimed three times that you hated to say what you were saying, it would have saved you time and angst.

Hikingout, I advise you not to rugsweep.

I want to give you another perspective to think about.

When HT decided he wanted to commit to R, he told me that in order for that to work we could not leave any stone unturned.

We spent every waking moment that we were not at our jobs, working through my A. Six months after DDay, HT ended losing his job. He was tired, he was irritable, and he was also coping with becoming newly sober. It was a lot. He struggled finding a job in a pretty horrible market that would pay him what he was worth. Our life seemed to be in shambles. Having nothing to lose, we sold our house and moved halfway across the country. I think at that time it was a good decision for us to make. It offered us something of a fresh start. It removed a lot of triggers. It didn’t fix our marriage…we had to do that. We found IC’s, we still talked every waking minute, we still struggled. We also built a new life for ourselves in the process.

I believe that selling your house is a good idea. I worry that despite the good memories you have there, the triggers will always make you uncomfortable in your home. I don’t look at you and your husband spending so much time together as a negative thing. It can force both of you to face your demons and each other. You won’t have distractions that life brings to help you avoid each other. You can remove those other stressors and commitments to figure out what and who the two of you really want.

Have peace of mind that you have your best egg and rental properties.

My advise is to not leave these stones unturned. Later in life you might be asking yourself. “What if we had done this?” If you leave your M down the line, don’t leave it with regret. If you remain together, know that you were willing to take risks to keep it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:13 AM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

Sorry everyone, life got busy. There is a lot here to catch up with. I will start with this:

I went to our MC about it by myself (I see him sometimes as an IC) and he basically got me to realize that a lot of my hate (besides the obvious) came from me feeling stuck and came from the anger I felt at myself for putting myself in this position. I was so mad and hateful towards me for not being pretty enough, good enough, being too blind to sign the signs, etc - and I was just really hateful to ME more than even my WH. I was mad at ME for causing myself to be stuck in this impossible situation where I wanted to leave but didn’t want to break up my family, was a SAHM, etc. The MC helped me to really realize that it wasn’t my fault, I was never in control of my WH, and helped me to forgive myself because if my daughter came to me in this situation I would never blame her for what her husband did.

Anyway, that’s a super long run-on sentence that may not even apply to you - but it helped me a lot with the anger.

I do think that some of my irritation is getting in this position, but probably for reasons that you didn't have. There is still the whole I cheated first, and all that set into motion. I also think that I am mad at myself for not seeing this all happening, and also just frustrated on all the gear changing.

Is that what is happening now? Do you feel like you need to be small because there is danger lurking around the corner in the form of change that while self-imposed, still represents enough uncertainty that it is somehow threatening?

Maybe? I will think about that. I don't feel meek with him at all, and I am very vocal. But, I do typically insist on talking when I am feeling calmer. I just don't like that feeling of being out of control? So when I feel overwhelmed, I shut down the conversation and move away until a better time. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know, but I would rather be more clear headed when I talk to him.

It's not that he doesn't see my emotions. A lot of times we are both crying and blubbering. But when I am in that rage-y feeling it's too much.