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Ok so it sounds like your IC was really sharp (unlike a lot). Maybe it would be a good idea for your husband to see the same one you did.

Your last post shows you have a good grasp of what’s needed and why. That is the biggest battle.

One thing I learned in business is most didn’t have a damn clue what the problem is. So you sure as hell can’t solve it.

I would push to get this resolved. Stringing this out won’t help.

I know these things take time but….

I would not do a major life change like you’re contemplating with this flapping in the breeze.

[This message edited by Marz at 8:12 PM, May 18th (Tuesday)]

Good luck.

Well it’s not contemplating it. This has been something we planned since before my affair. When we bought the RV last year we kept planning it. Things were a mess and we kind of just kept going with the plan. In retrospect I am not sure why. I think I have been keen on moving since he had his affair in our house and I can’t keep living here. My job is something I can’t seem to refocus on. So this other aspect of actually leaving on the trip is the least bothersome part. It’s just the only trigger we haven’t pulled.

I think this will be a long time before it’s resolved. I don’t want to sink the money into another house right now. My trepidation was probably more coming from feeling things I hadn’t expressed, I posted this to get clarity over what it was that needed expressed.

TXquail- I do follow what you are saying but unfortunately he made some very unhealthy decisions regardless of how he got there. He needs to heal or at least figure out if he can do that with me. And for the record women fee the things you are talking about when they are cheated on too. What would it say about my feelings for him to really just be fine with what has happened? It would mean I don’t care much for him. That is not the case. I can move forward with him and not require him to have introspection but then what assurances am I left with? It’s simply impossible to follow your advice. I would be suppressing resentments again which is how we got here in the first place. Staying married is not my goal. My goal is for us to both be happy and healthy and whatever that looks like is okay with me. Of course I hope that means we would be together and do it together but I don’t have any desire to hold him in a marriage he will never be happy in or Vice versa. Love means wanting the best for that other person. As I said before - we need time to grow and get to a good place.

ON TOPIC: Respect the original posters' intent and avoid threadjacking. Feel free to start new topics to discuss general subject matter in other threads, but do not refer to specific topics or threads outside of their original location.

Txquail, please get back on the original topic or bow out of the conversation.

HO

It is good to see you stand up for yourself. Nice to see a little justified anger too.

I forgot this happened in your home and agree it needs to go.

In recovery from affairs too much change can be a bad thing. My fear is this change is now associated with something bad rather than a new start

You are truly a wonderful person who has endless empathy and has given so much to so many past.

Sorry, I should have realized you have been planning this for a while. Things like that take time.

A few things I was thinking over the weekend.

There's a limited time frame for most people to fit that type of travel in their lives. I couldn't have imagined doing it when my children were much younger, and when they became young teens it was clear they needed a normal home and school environment. Couples we met with adult children often modified their plans when the daughters started having children. This may be the only good opportunity for you to do this.

It's fine to do it and realize that you can stop doing it anytime you want.

The thing about getting irritable around WH - Can you plan or discuss any options for a short break if necessary? I was one of those BS who separated more than once. I'm not proud of that, but I needed it for my mental health. There was even one Valentine's Day where I came home from work and couldn't bring myself to stay, so I packed a bag and went to a hotel for a few days. It sounds childish, but I enabled location on my phone and let everyone know where I was. You will lose the independence to do that while traveling to at least some extent. If you're near a town, will it be ok for you to take the car for a few days? Maybe you can carry a limited amount of camping equipment to tent it by yourself if you're out somewhere else.

Previously, I mentioned mostly the bad things about traveling. We did see great places and do fun things and meet lots of interesting and nice people.

Rambler,

I appreciate your kindness. This:

In recovery from affairs too much change can be a bad thing. My fear is this change is now associated with something bad rather than a new start

Yes. I do think you are onto something here. I realized when reading it this is another aspect that was in the landscape of why I made this post.

I really contemplated selling this RV and getting a different one. The reason is because it was bought when he was selling me on having a shared vision for our future and this being like a new commitment and possibly being like an extended honeymoon. We had gone to choose what we wanted a few years back, and when we finally made that purchase it seemed like it was really one of our happiest days. I saw it as us against the world kind of thing.

I see that RV as a gigantic lie. I really do. But, I am also practical. The AP has never been inside of it. He claims he meant what he said at the time, but I don't see how that can really be true. The problem is they are like cars, they depreciate quickly and to go buy another one would be a tremendously bad financial mistake. So, I have given up that idea. And, at this point we already have suited up the solar and have made the modifications we needed.

I am a positive person despite this miserable last 4 years. I am just going to keep working on reframing and see where it goes. In the end, what we are getting to do is a tremendous privilege, we will have to rely on each other and work as a team, and having a lot of new experiences seems like that would also be positive. He surprised me yesterday with one of my bucket list concerts for one of the legs of our upcoming trip, and despite some of the dark underside of this there is a lot to also look forward to.

I do feel better now that he knows that I don't see this as a renewal or a recommitment. Some of what I was trying to do here was get an understanding of all the things that were bothering me about it and I think I am getting a better and better handle on that. You guys have all given me very good food for thought.

Human Trampoline,

Thank you. I appreciated your advice before as well. I don't expect everyone who comments to understand every aspect and it means a lot that someone who rarely posts takes time to try and help me. I wanted to answer this:

The thing about getting irritable around WH - Can you plan or discuss any options for a short break if necessary? I was one of those BS who separated more than once. I'm not proud of that, but I needed it for my mental health. There was even one Valentine's Day where I came home from work and couldn't bring myself to stay, so I packed a bag and went to a hotel for a few days. It sounds childish, but I enabled location on my phone and let everyone know where I was. You will lose the independence to do that while traveling to at least some extent. If you're near a town, will it be ok for you to take the car for a few days? Maybe you can carry a limited amount of camping equipment to tent it by yourself if you're out somewhere else.

We have agreed to this over the weekend. We hadn't talked about it other than some general knowing we need to have outlets but with vague understanding of what that might be.

I have also thought a lot about what is creating the irritation. I mean besides the obvious. I am going to talk to my IC when I see her on Monday to see if she can help me dig around. I am not concerned as much with how he receives it. He seems to take it in stride. It's more disruptive to me and my peace. I am sure it's normal and natural considering everything, but I am hoping we can think about some mental strategies without being avoidant about it.

Regardless of this, I think sometimes I am going to have to bug out, and I have offered him the same ability.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:15 AM, May 19th (Wednesday)]

Saw on tv today about a national entertainment membership program around people with RVs. Might be good as it would not only give ideas of what you can do but also places that are RV friendly.

I know everyone handles it differently. But I too like you viewed my house as a big lie. We bought it mid affair...who does that? AP hasn't been in it. But yet she tainted every room and wall and for a couple of years I did fall out of love with it.

But then I reclaimed it. I decorated rooms how I wanted and made them places I loved. Spent alot of time and effort. And kept reminding myself I picked it as a family home and that is nothing to do with her or him.

There was an incident in his car. Which still makes my skin crawl if I need to be inside it. But it's really old and has no debt and could have been traded in years ago. He hates it too. So I was stubborn and part of his punishment was he had to live with it. There was no way we were getting more debt to get rid of his old crappy car he basically got a paid blow.job in (she worked an evening for him and she repaid him with that in the car road side how classy eh?) So I wasn't willing to let it go for his sake and my financial hardship. Nope I reframed that right away lol.

So it can be done but it can be difficult. No doubt about it. You sound like a positive and practical person. The original intent from your side being reframed a bit, along side putting your own mark on it maybe enough to help you get past it.

I hope you can find the adventure and happiness it was supposed to bring!

[This message edited by Tentwinkletoes at 12:01 AM, May 20th (Thursday)]

I've just reread further back and I think this idea a woman must be submissive to her husband to repair the affair damage from her part whilst excusing his is just nuts.

How I chose to respond to trauma is on me. Whilst it is true it changes how you view your spouse male or female. Majority of bs disrespect and are disgusted by their ws. Regardless of sex or if they did it first.

YOU and you alone make the decision to stay or leave and how to deal with that. If he couldn't stand his wife he shouldve left or he shouldve found the space and ic to work through it without throwing another full scale trauma into the mix. He didn't have that self awareness nor the integrity and he substituted it with entitlement. You wouldn't be standing there saying well he lost all respect for you so when he started hitting you, it was on you to go to him tell him you love him and make it better. Hell no. His response is his responsibility and instead of having the self awareness to realise how utterly devastating an affair is. E.g everything he feels for her she now in return feels for him he just thought of himself...so he won't get that validation you are so desperate to claim he deserves, like he was getting in their false R because he abused it. He took it and he betrayed her whilst accepting it. That in itself is horrendous. He added a whole load of extra pain grief and trauma and whilst it may have resorted from his initial trauma that was his decision to act on it in this way. So now her response to trauma is his consequence. Just as his was hers they have to navigate their own traumas and their own responses with their own responsibility. It's not on one party to absorb it all and excuse the rest.

Thank you TTT - I agree 100 percent.

I know not everyone reconciles or can, but I do understand there are some who may not understand all that goes in R. There are some who believe once a WS, you stay in your lane and you take what you can get and be happy with it.

A lot of people do not understand healing involves learning to love yourself, learning to make yourself happy, and not expecting to get those things from others. It also requires trying to right your wrongs to the best of your abilities and do better moving forward. I would undo my work to accept this, to not have boundaries, to take my lumps and smile.

I am just not interested in being married if that's the description. Nor do I think he should stay married if that's the description I am giving him. I want my husband to heal, I truly do. I still do the things I should as the WS despite all this. I am transparent with my comings and goings, with my phone, I give him assurances and if there is a trigger I try and recognize it and be there for him through it. I still bring up my affair and maintain curiousity over his feelings about it.

All I ask in return is the same thing. That's it. I do not think that is unreasonable or hypocrisy. And, I am also patient knowing he's not going to have the assignment done by tomorrow. I just want to see progress, consistency, and have some assurance he really wants this at all.

It's always a lot messier than I can put words to, and none of this is done perfectly or always patiently. But, I think if we both have a vision of what we want moving forward and those visions can match then maybe we will have a chance. Some days, I can't see it at all and think we are headed for divorce because this shit is an overwhelming hill to climb. Other days, I believe it will be worth it. Noone has a crystal ball.

I want my husband to heal, I truly do. I still do the things I should as the WS despite all this. I am transparent with my comings and goings, with my phone, I give him assurances and if there is a trigger I try and recognize it and be there for him through it. I still bring up my affair and maintain curiousity over his feelings about it.

All I ask in return is the same thing. That's it. I do not think that is unreasonable or hypocrisy. And, I am also patient knowing he's not going to have the assignment done by tomorrow. I just want to see progress, consistency, and have some assurance he really wants this at all.

^^This. Absolutely. At first read, your original post seems like you've planned to do a thing, and it's going to be difficult to change course now, so even though doing the thing doesn't really fit the circumstances anymore, you're trying to talk yourself into doing the thing. (Humans are good at this...I've done it myself--talked myself into something mainly because it was "the plan," just on a smaller scale.)

But it also seems that you understand that your husband owes it to you to do the work, just as much as you owe/owed it to him (and he does.) No matter where you end up, you are aware of that. You aren't walking into the adventure blindly. Will you regret it? Maybe you just can't know that until you do the thing. :)

You've analyzed everything from all angles. Normally, I think more people should make decisions based upon logic vs. feelings. But in your case, I guess I'd say, take a mental break from it for a day/days/a week or whatever to clear your head, then ask yourself, "What does my gut say?"

HikingOut, re:

“. . . Making sure no piece of dirty laundry is actually in a laundry basket? Proving that the best place for dirty dishes is in the sink, not the dishwasher (of course this includes bathroom sinks too)? Perhaps others have additional suggestions?”

I don't know if in some of the moments I can go to humor. Worth a try.

Oh, I am sure I annoy him too. I know he still gets angry and overwhelmed too.

Yes, agree that you can’t do it in the moment.

This is only effective later on and looking back where you can change something upsetting into something you can laugh about.

I can give you more specifics if you clear enough messages to get your private messages working again.

Thanks again for your examples of honesty.

I have opted to stay out of this thread as I don't want to be a downer. But, to me, were I in the same position as you are I would want there to be more healing and less anger before embarking on a potentially multi-year trip in an RV. I would want to be ready to go with my spouse. Even if we take off broken together, at least we would be that far ahead. I'm a firm believer that my spouse must be my best friend. The person I want to talk to, have a meal with, travel with... more so than anyone else. Such that when we left on a trip like this we would feel we were exploring the world together anew.

I have learned much from you and hope nothing but the very best for you. I hope this works out well for you.

I'm with Hellfire and bpguy that it seems like you're rushing into this major life change far too quickly considering everything that's happened. Why wouldn't you be pissed at him all the time? For close to 2 years, he was lying and sneaking around your back on a daily basis. If I were in your shoes, this RV trip purchase and plan would be tainted by that fact, particularly since he framed it as "vow renewal." Whose vows were to be renewed? Just yours?!

On the other hand, I can definitely see the appeal in just completely shedding the past and starting off fresh. The only problem is, anywhere you two go, there you both will be. There's no running away from yourselves or each other.

P.S. <threadjack> I don't know what it is about your posts that always inspires revenge affair apologists to lay into you and attempt to derail your discussions. The only explanation I can think of is that they're living vicariously through your husband or using you as a proxy for their own WWs.

Anyway, I do admire how you manage to respond to these comments without seeming to throw hot coffee at your computer screen. </threadjack>

< fervent agreement with threadjack >

Bluerthanblue & BP guy,

I hear you both and appreciate what you have said as things meant for my protection. I definitely do not have the illusion we cam run away from anything, I realize that we will be doing the same things in this RV that is happening in our home now.

I feel like I talk out of both sides of my mouth on this. On one hand, that best friend vibe is still there on the good days, and we are starting to have some of those with regularity. In my heart of hearts I just truly do love this man and can not think of us not being together

Then there is this whole other part of me that is realistic. There is a lot to work through on both sides that requires a lot of attention, time. It may not work out. Some days this situation seems so unsurmountable I wonder why I am wasting my time. Other days, I feel strongly we are going to make it. Sometimes I wonder if I am still doing penance for my affair, but other times I feel like I am a different person than I was then and I truly do find joy in the idea I have my own back for the first time in my life.

This RV lifestyle is much more simpler and paired down than our other one. I have decided that with that simplicity will mean more free time which means there is even more time for us to talk, work with our therapists, we are at a point I am considering if we are ready for MC. I think MC might be a good step in that we would have someone to mediate rather than just going in separate corners to our own IC.

I also think it's going to be good for my soul. He will still be working some, and I will have days where I get out on my own. Maybe do some hikes and spend some quiet time. I have worked and worked and worked on all this stuff with all the noise of life. I am hoping that life could get a bit quieter under this construct and that I can get a bit of refuge in that way.

I do want to also point out that I would not do this at all if I wasn't seeing him make progress or working on himself. He is doing that and with little to no prodding on my end. That would be a "we are canceling this plan" altogether.

As for the whole debacle of people saying the marriage was killed by me and that made the marriage open. That's only valid when that's what your spouse is reflecting on and telling you. That was not our situation at all. I can understand people not understanding that, or how some may not know how R looks in different stages if they haven't done that part. I just don't buy into the idea that my affair exonerates his, any more than his exonerates mine.

I expect to get that sometimes, which is why for a long time it's been hard for me to talk about my feelings. I couldn't show the rawness here that I felt in the beginning because I would not have been able to deal with those comments back then. That would have hit me more at that time as being true. You simply can't talk me into that any more. I don't really feel that same rawness anymore. I have terrible, awful days, yes. And usually several in a row. But nothing like the first 4 or 5 months.

I am glad I can talk about this more fully now here. I had joined a support group early on through meet-ups. I still go to that. I have befriended two of the women there, and I am thankful to have them too. One is behind me in her timeline, one is far, far ahead. It's nice to get that contrast. I see them more than the monthly meeting and text a lot with them. I think my husband could benefit from expanding his support system and I think that's my biggest reservation about leaving. At the same time, it's not happening where we are either so I am not sure it makes a difference.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:18 PM, May 24th (Monday)]