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It sounds to me like you need to fire the MC.

That may be so, but that is only part of the equation. Your wife needs to be 'fired' also. As stated, she has gone from 'I'll do anything' to being a victim in a real short time.

I implore you to read the first 5 pages of this thread again....right up to confrontation. Because honestly, your wife sounds a lot like this, and hardly a candidate to reconcile with....let alone go to marriage counseling.

I’m sorry that you experienced the downside to MC and hysterical bonding (although I'm not surprised). I've been there and understand why you did it.

Recovering from infidelity is messy as well as a long process (regardless of R or D) with unfortunately plenty of very discouraging days.

It’s still early in the process. Her ‘change’ in attitude/behavior is not evidence that all is lost. It’s just another (current) issue you need to deal with.

My first reaction is where did your wife get her current ideas from? It sounds very similar to what an OM would say; or a cheating GF would say.

One potential benefit from MC is your wife felt it was a safe place to drop her mask and reveal ‘who’ she really is.

You may not like what you heard in MC – but at least you learned/confirmed something that you need to know.

IMO you have evidence of your wife’s inner private thoughts and core values:

1 – Sex (in or out of marriage) is no big deal. Among other things, it’s transactional and gets her what she wants (a husband, kids, a sense of control, feeling important/young/pretty…the list is endless).

For example, as I recall, her immediate strategy/reaction to save the marital relationship was to repeatedly offer you kisses, hugs, and sex.

2 – Everyone cheats. Among other things: she’s delusional, has a major hole in her core values, she is very selfish - and lacks empathy for the pain & destruction adultery causes.

3 – She assumes you cheat. Not surprising since she embraces 1 & 2 above. (polygraph anyone?)

Finally, I mean this in a helpful way. From the posts your wife comes across as a beautiful woman that is a: vain, shallow, manipulative selfish air head. Your wife desperately needs IC with someone that has experience with her personality type as well as infidelity.

I’m not going to suggest what you should say to her with respect to items 1 & 2 (I think you know). Although maybe she needs to see it in writing so she can really think about it.

ASL, I have to ask you this....

WHY OH WHY did you agree to Marriage Counseling? This was a HUGE mistake on YOUR part.

Partially because it sends the message implicitly that *your marriage* was what got your WW to cheat. (It was not the marriage, if your WW's decision-making.) And partially because this, a MC giving justification for your WW's actions, is not so uncommon. The way some of the blame for your WW's affair is being put on you in these MC sessions--we all could already see this coming beforehand!

You need to change course because you are well on your way to end up being the Henpecked Husband.

WHY OH WHY did you agree to Marriage Counseling? This was a HUGE mistake on YOUR part.

This ^^^^^^

Stop MC and have your wife begin working with an IC specializing in infidelity. Get a post-nup developed ASAP and have your wife sign it. If she refuses, continue with divorce proceedings. If she (miraculously) becomes remorseful (showing empathy for the pain she caused you) as opposed to regretful (sorry how her actions impact her), her actions will show it and you can cancel/postpone the divorce. If not, you've saved time you'll need to heal.

It was obvious before that she is not truly remorseful (when she was talking to ap again after your fight with him and conformting him)

From one breadwinning betrayed spouse to another, please take care of your finances. You are not killing yourself at the office so she can take half of everything. Would you work your current schedule for 50% of your salary? Because that's essentially what you are likely doing, as she's shown you that she's not going to stop cheating. Eventually you will have enough and divorce her, or she will take the decision our of your hands and leave you for a current or future AP. And you will have to pay her so much more than you would now! Go to a lawyer and see what's enforceable in your state. If she is remorseful and wants to work on the marriage, she will sign a post-nup that is favorable to you in the event that she cheats again. But you need a good lawyer to make sure it's enforceable.

I lost a ton of money in my divorce (My WS brought in very little income during our marriage as I put him through med school) and he cheated right when he was going to start earning a doctor's salary. He really wanted to reconcile, but refused to sign a post-nup that only came into play if he cheated, saying I should just trust him. So in addition to me paying for his school, he took half of all of the assets I'd earned.

I am so grateful every day that I didn't take him back, as the payout I would have had to make to him (when he inevitably cheated again) would have been much higher. Instead I found a new, quality partner and am living a great life. That can be your experience, too.

I’m sorry to say this, but with her still blameshifting. I don’t think things are going to be looking good R any time soon, if ever.

Maybe if the job is the issue. Tell her you will resign. Then you can have a nice talk about your new lifestyle without your income, such as her getting a job, putting the kids in daycare. She’ll love it.

Good luck, stay strong, and do what you must to be able to look the man in the mirror in the eye

... such as her getting a job, putting the kids in daycare.

That's just a good idea no matter how you slice it. Cheaters who have been SAHM(D) should just automatically be sent out to get a job making the maximum amount they're capable of making. That's something which will help to mitigate the BS's costs if it does come to divorce. Further, the SAHM(D) who used that extra time at home to get into trouble, should have to forfeit that time. Getting the kids used to daycare now helps mitigate the shock of a sudden divorce. I get it that the OP has four Little, six and under. So, that's quite a big change and a big expense. But your cheating WW can pay for it by getting a job and earning some money. Maybe when she starts appreciating that work actually does take time, she'll stop being such a brat about the time it takes her BH to bring home all that bacon.

Her suggesting you've cheated and never told her....that should be the straw that breaks the marriage's back.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 12:32 AM, July 26th (Monday)]

Classic DARVO. It is now all YOUR fault, that you made her have an affair

Another thing, please stop thinking with your small head, and use the head on your shoulders to think.

HB is good if you are in a true R, but it is also a commonly used tactic used by WW to lull the BS into a false sense of security. Then BAM! they hit you when you think things are well and good. Think Samson and Delilah.

Fire the MC immediately. Your wife, the mother of FOUR young children, has put this marriage on life support due to her fucked up selfishness. You are in a shitty situation because you have four young children. But for that, I would recommend dumping her sorry ass yesterday. Talk to your lawyer and see what the chances are of you sharing 50/50 custody of your children. She is working or should be looking for a new job. This should cut into her alimony claim.

You are in a tough spot, but I can't see how your WW is reconcilable material. She blew up the marriage and you are supposed to eat this horrible shit sandwich.

The utter gall of trying to justify her affair by imagining you were having one. I would drop the bomb on her just for that stupid justification. Good luck to you, but I would seriously start shutting the door on this skank.

Her blaming her A on her imagination of your A is a dead set signal that she is blameshifting, she is not accepting responsibility for the A and she is deflecting. Clearly, at this time, she is not a candidate for R. DO NOT allow this to stand for one more minute.

How you choose to handle this development is up to you. I can tell you that D can be hard, but based on the information you have provided, you will be better off after.

I had similar experiences with marriage counseling. Wish I had not ever gone. I also asked my wife to go to IC. I don't think that was any more helpful because in IC the therapist gets the story and perspective of the patient as the patient chooses to present it. I don't think therapy does anything for the WS that the BS hopes it will.

Two things: 1. That moment where the situation and dynamic were very clear, that she had fucked up unimaginably and would now have to commit to doing everything possible and without limit or condition for her desperate hope to keep you in the marriage, is passed and the pendulum is swinging. It can swing so far as to show a building resentment that has a hard edge. Sweet contrition lasts only so long. If she has shown you capacity for nastiness in the past, that is not rooted out, just momentarily suppressed, and you will see it again. 2. She may not have another affair, but now you know that she did and is capable that, that is part of who she is, and that is hard to carry. There may be a lot of happiness for you together and on balance it may (or may not) make sense, but there is a lot of hard for you alone and at times that sucks, sucks, sucks. Her saying you could have had affairs and she just doesn't know is her saying "people have affairs, that is life. This could just as well be the other way around. I won't have you hold this over my head."

[This message edited by Rufus at 9:09 AM, July 26th (Monday)]

I had similar experiences with marriage counseling. Wish I had not ever gone. I also asked my wife to go to IC. I don't think that was any more helpful because in IC the therapist gets the story and perspective of the patient as the patient chooses to present it. I don't think therapy does anything for the WS that the BS hopes it will.

You nailed it. Unless the cheater is completely committed to changing into a better person and is willing to be radically honest about what they have done and have an understanding of the harm they have caused.

Simultaneously, you have to find a competent, intelligent, morally upright therapist, who believes that infidelity is a great harm to perpetrate on another, who will not accept any bullshit, who won't try to help you cook up excuses and rationalizations, who is willing to say the hard things that might cause them to lose a client.

That's a lot of things that have to line up, but it starts with the cheater wanting to really change themselves.

And adults who really and truly will look at themselves and make a change for the better? Well, that is rare to understate the case.

And meanwhile, the betrayed partner owes them absolutely nothing for this effort. You have to change for you, because the damage you inflicted on that person may simply be unacceptable to them to continue a life with you.

It's a tough road without any guarantees.

From one bread-winning spouse to another: make her getting a job a condition for reconciliation. Doesn't mean you actually have to reconcile. I made my WH finally get a job... he makes less than 1/3 what I do, but it's something. When he fucks up again, hopefully I won't have to pay as much alimony. Plus idle hands and all that... if they have time to fuck around on us, they have time to earn their keep.

she cheated because she felt lonely because I was away 110 hours a week.

She will never be a good candidate for reconciling as long as she has this mindset. Still blaming you for HER actions is not conducive to a successful relationship.

It feels like WW and MC are trying to make this "our affair" instead "her affair".

Typical MC bullshit. Rugsweeping is not reconciliation

[This message edited by Marz at 9:10 PM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

Can you guys answer this, Should husbands express weakness to their wives?

In our 8 years, I was always the dependable one. "You got a problem? I'll take care of it" while my wife was the caretaker. She makes sure everything is in order. And ever since I confronted the affair, it was her doing all the crying. She makes it seem she is the victim that her affair hurts her more than I do. She said she never wanted that and in hindsight, she was taken advantage of.

She and the MC told me she was forced to do that because she felt unloved. She was actually glad that we can finally work on our marriage and determine "us". And she somehow believes that I'm just mad not hurt, that I'm trying to divorce her because I'm mad at her not because the affair shattered a part of me that I don't think will ever be recovered.

I guess that's the straw that broke the camel's back, I told the MC that that was our last session.

OBS and POS are now officially going through a divorce. I asked her how she is doing and offered her help. I even called my kid's pediatrician and wife's obstetrician and paid for consults. It was the least I could do. She is thinking of moving away from all this and I don't blame her.

WW hates the idea of getting a job but if "I want some stranger raising our kids" then she has no choice. She's in IC with our MC and I'm taking advantage of the company's counselor.

I'm picking up the kids this weekend from my in-laws so there's one good thing.

[This message edited by ASoreLoser at 9:43 PM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

Funny how she points out that I want some stranger raising our kids while she lets a serial cheater near them.