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She makes it seem she is the victim that her affair hurts her more than I do. She said she never wanted that and in hindsight, she was taken advantage of.

She’s an adult woman and made a decision to have an affair. She had a choice.

She and the MC told me she was forced to do that because she felt unloved. She was actually glad that we can finally work on our marriage and determine "us". And she somehow believes that I'm just mad not hurt, that I'm trying to divorce her because I'm mad at her not because the affair shattered a part of me that I don't think will ever be recovered.

She was not forced to have an affair. She chose to.

Blame-shifting is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

The MC is trying to do a rugsweep. Pretty typical. The marriage isn’t broken. Your wife is.

I just want to add that she as a adult and very learned. Made deliberate and conscious decisions every step of the way to get where she is now. At no time did she change her directions and talk to her BS.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 10:09 PM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

I think it is time you revisit your contract w your WW after D-day, ASL. In particular, your old MC is not a friend of the marriage, and so he cannot be your WW's IC.

Really, what are you doing to protect yourself here?

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 10:25 PM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

Should husbands express weakness to their wives?

Simple answer: Yes.

Longer answer: Yes, sometimes, and it also depends on what kind of weakness you are referring to and what circumstances.

If you are both on the same side, then it is human to show weakness every now and then. Do it too often, and you will be seen as weak all the time. Too little, and you can be seen as mechanical.

Now, in your case, I would be wary of showing weakness in front of her, as she seems to be a manipulator. She manipulates you with her tears (which she seems to be still doing), and you weaken and give her comfort.

You need to do the 180.

WW hates the idea of getting a job but if "I want some stranger raising our kids" then she has no choice.

She is still acting the victim, and is trying to guilt trip you. She enjoys her life of leisure.

This also indicates how good an actress she is. The leaving your shirt wet with tears and snot after the talk with OBS did nothing for her. She is still in her 'poor me' mode of thinking.

She's in IC with our MC

Would suggest your WS stops with that MC, as the MC seems to be enabling/promoting your WS's mindset that she is a victim..

ASoreLoser,

She's in IC with our MC and I'm taking advantage of the company's counselor.

WTF? You are having the rugsweeping MC act as her IC? Absolutely not. She needs to see an IC that specializes in infidelity and will hold her accountable for her poor choices. Otherwise, your "reconciliation" will never happen...

She and the MC told me she was forced to do that because she felt unloved. She was actually glad that we can finally work on our marriage and determine "us". And she somehow believes that I'm just mad not hurt, that I'm trying to divorce her because I'm mad at her not because the affair shattered a part of me that I don't think will ever be recovered.

I guess that's the straw that broke the camel's back, I told the MC that that was our last session.

I'm glad you fired the MC. Nothing good can come from allowing a WS to believe that the hundreds of choices they made to commit adultery are in any way justified. If your WW felt unloved, she had myriad choice in how to deal with that, up to and including divorce. It's hogwash. Nothing you say, nothing you do, can cause another person to throw away their integrity. If they truly VALUE the things they say they do, cheating is not an option. VERY PROUD of you for standing up for yourself and drawing a line in the sand on that.

Your WW is still not empathizing with what she's put you through, which while not unusual, is just so irritating. Empathy is just walking a mile in the other guys shoes and using your imagination to FEEL what they feel. But your WW is so immature and so frivolous that she just can't get there. Have you asked her to read a copy of How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda McDonald? It a really short book. There is some religious messaging but nothing that can't be disregarded if you aren't religious people. The main point of reading it is that the author does a really good job of describing what a betrayed spouse goes through. I don't think I'd tolerate the caterwauling either. Look her right in the eye and tell her if those tears aren't for the pain she has caused you, she can go cry somewhere else out of your sight, and certainly NOT in front of the children.

You know, I'm as concerned for your case as I am for someone else about the Daddy/Jailer aspect of your WW's failure to empathize with you. But I just don't think she's capable of making ANY progress without you frog-marching her forward through the process. She's essentially an overgrown child, and if it weren't for the FOUR very real little people, I don't think I'd hesitate to tell you to run for your life, which is weird for me because I don't like to do that.

I think though that you're going to need to be really specific about the behaviors you need to see from her and what she needs to be learning. Now of course, I don't mean to be cruel or demeaning, but rather firm on the books she needs to read, her demeanor toward you, her behavior with the children, etc. If her IC isn't holding her feet to the fire, you should insist she change ICs. My hope is that even though you might have to push really hard to get her started, maybe she'll make enough progress so that you can then change course to break through the immaturity and whatever Daddy/jailer bias might be found. IOW, she's a bear that's going to have to be eaten one bite at a time, and that is... IF you are willing to keep trying. You have a lot at stake, but a determined Dad can make it work no matter how much of a chore the ex might be. It's just real hard because you no longer control who goes in and out of the home.

WW hates the idea of getting a job but if "I want some stranger raising our kids" then she has no choice. She's in IC with our MC and I'm taking advantage of the company's counselor.

Tough. SAHM(D)'s who can find time to fuck around, can find time to work. It mitigates your payments if everything goes to pot. I wouldn't settle for part-time and working beneath her skill set either. It's a difficult adjustment for everyone to make, but life's hard sometimes. She should get used to it.

I don't know about expressing "weakness".

Vulnerability, hurt, and pain. Sure. Suffering doesn't make you weak though.

You should also be honest about you "weaknesses" though. We can all improve.

Showing you are working through pain shows toughness, not weakness.

ASL,

Your busy schedule as an excuse was just an idea she came up with during your MC. There are a lot of things to do if your spouse is busy with work. She came up with a lot of ideas when she can be busy herself with your kids. She made herself available by hiring a nanny for your kids while she was having all her time with her AP, having sex with him 5x in one session.

When she was confessing her love with AP, you were never in her mind. She didn't think 'my husband is busy so I can just love someone else'. Nope! You were not in her mind during her affair. Not one bit! Her attention during that time was her and AP! You were not part of anything in her life at all! She was planning her future with AP during all those times. AP was the love of her life. They are each other's soulmates! They were confessing their love for each other! Everyday! While you were tiring your ass off giving her the life she wanted!

You're not even plan B... or plan C... she's trying to get rid of you and be with AP.

She did all the things she did without any excuse. She wasn't thinking that you were busy at all. They reached out with each other. Talked about their past. Talked about why they didn't end up together and then... proceeded with the affair. There was nothing in that sequence that were you in it. You weren't part of it at all. She wasn't thinking, during that time that her husband had an affair thus she'll have an affair of her own. That excuse just came up now!

Your name only comes up on their story when they're trying to mock you! Your manhood! How you can't compare to AP. How she does everything with AP and she won't do it with you! Your name only comes on the negative side. You didn't have a single positive trait from her stories! You were the villain!

After your fist fight, who did she check on first, you or AP? That tells you who is in her mind (and heart)! She checked on AP first if he's okay! You were there with her! She didn't take care of you. She reached out to AP if he's good. That's a strong indication that you were never in her mind even if you're right there beside her.

You were never in her story. It's just a made up excuse.

Think about it!

[This message edited by beb252 at 7:08 AM, Wednesday, July 28th]

You said you were a banker, so you must know the principle of trend analysis.

Let's try to take a more distant view, when you look at the "trend of your relationship", where do you think it is going right now?

Funny how she points out that I want some stranger raising our kids while she lets a serial cheater near them.

Funnier, to fuck with AP, kids can be left to some stranger raising them, but not for work.

Your post proves once again why you NEVER rush into MC.

Your wife blames you for her affair (feeling unloved....). And the MC validates her thinking (which btw her excuse is evidence of a wayward thought process and makes her a high risk to repeat).

She sees herself as a victim. Again she's not holding herself accountable (wayward thinking). Validated in MC.

She cries everytime you discuss her affair. It's called manipulative behavior (to make you feel sorry for her as the victim). More wayward thinking.

BTW: IMO she probably never intended to have an affair when she first reached out to him. But at some point she convinced herself she was entitled to an affair - and went for it.

But that doesn't make her the victim of the OM.

Her decision to cheat was a consequence of her selfishness, sense of entitlement; and lack of morals, lack of self control, lack of basic male/female boundaries, lack of self esteem, lack of empathy for you.

Combined with her ability to deceive you 24/7 (no small flaw in her character).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:49 AM, July 28th (Wednesday)]

Her behavior and blame shifting is solidifying how fake all of her tears and apologies were.

She knows how to manipulate you. She has no shame in doing now even after she destroyed your marriage and broke your heart.

She is a typical cheater. Nothing is her fault, you made her do it and cries when there might be consequences. Her comment about strangers raising the kids is lower than low.

I hope she can get help with a real counselor but currently she is absolutely not even close to a candidate for R. Please protect yourself. With her behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if you have more d days coming up.

Tough. SAHM(D)'s who can find time to fuck around, can find time to work.

That's a very good point. I hadn't really thought of it that way.

Not sure about ASL's WW, but XWW used to constantly complain about how stressed she was. I guess having someone provide for all your needs is terribly stressful.

ASL, glad you dumped the MC. Yet another "professional" who really has no clue what they are doing.

Have you spoken to an attorney? I thought you had previously, but not sure. Your experience with the MC should show you how important it is to find the right attorney, who is going to represent your interests, and in the way you want.

ASL

Sorry you are still suffering.

When in the early phase of pain that you are Still in I always suggest to keep things simple and honest with your WW.

To that end here is what I would be saying if I were in your shoes. Take any of all that resonates with you and put in your own words.

“You broke my heart. Plain and simple. My heart is broken. And instead of working to help me heal, you choose to start blaming me for the affair.

I’m done talking to you. It’s time for me to move on “

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:51 AM, July 28th (Wednesday)]

Oh and by the way. Saying the above to her is NOT showing weakness. It’s being honest about what you need to heal. And being honest that if she doesn’t have it in her heart to do that work, then you have no choice but to move on and heal yourself.

I wouldn't recommend doing pick me dance.

Just as we advise you to look at WW's actions, not words, you should show what you want to say with your actions, not words.

Finding a work/life balance is important and something you should consider for not only your kids, but any future relationship. It's just healthy for you and those you care about. It also is about filling your own tank.

Funny how many SAHM WS's use the I'm bored/unfulfilled excuse to cheat. My STBXWW told her AP that her life wasnt very exciting while I was working full time and renovating a home for us and MIL/FIL. 12-14 hour days 7 days a week. It was a project she came up with to further our family.

Well, now that we are S, she has to do everything, even those things that magically got done behind the scenes, like watching the weather page so I could see if I needed to get up an hour earlier to shovel the snow before I made the kids Breakfast and packed lunches. She is ill equipped to handle the minimum of daily life, let alone the extra without a partner. Hell, her irrigation broke, so she mentioned it to him, thing he would just take care of it, you know, like her old husband did. She got pissed at him when he didn't. Heard about that one from him during drop off. She even had the audacity to complain to me asking, "Do you realize how hard it is to be a single parent?" I wish I had been drinking something so I could have spit it out.

The flip side is that my life has become boring without her. I mean, I have way less to do and very little stress apart from my youngest daughter who is 16 and full of attitude. It wasnt until I filed and S that came to realize just how much of a millstone my STBXWW was. She really contributed very little to the family and was abysmally bad at the finances. I'm so bored, that I have been forced to find ways to occupy my time with exercise, reading, travel, friends, and self improvement. She, on the other hand, has this incessant need to tell me how depressed she is and how she doesn't think she can ever be happy again, confusing me with someone who gives a shit.

If you choose to cut your WW loose, you may come to realize that she was a drain on you, and that things might be better without her. You may choose R, but from what I've read, it sounds like there is not much to work with in terms of your WW.

Brother what a shit show.

WW is now so sorry for what she did, it was such a mistake.

Unfortunately your WW is highly educated. She new what she was doing every step of the way. She made conscious decisions and freely met up for her selfish sessions with her AP. She would have even thought of the consequences of her actions.

Has she ever stated what she thought would occur if she was caught?

I believe her mind set was she could talk her way out of this D. As she is your children’s mother, you would never leave her.

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 2:07 AM, July 29th (Thursday)]

Among other things your wife made the decision to cheat because (in the context of marriage) she is selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lacked empathy for you.

These characteristics didn't suddenly appear because of something you said or didn't do.

We all have unmet needs.

Sooner or later we all feel unloved or unappreciated (the list of unmet needs is endless) - but we don't chose adultery as a solution.

The above characteristics are real and a part of who she is as a person. In order to be a safe partner she needs to first acknowledge these characteristics and learn how to manage them.

Further, she needs to figure out why (out of other options) she chose adultery.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:18 PM, July 28th (Wednesday)]

Should husbands express weakness to their wives?

GAH!! Why is being honest about your emotions "weakness" (and men wonder why "Toxic Masculinity" is a thing. THIS!! Right here!)

Emotions are NOT weaknesses.

Anger is NOT the only emotion a man is allowed to show.

Women do NOT disrespect a man who wears his heart on his sleeve.

Women DO fear men whose only expressed emotion is anger.

FFS man, let your WW see your pain and suffering, not just your anger. As a woman, I have come to ignore (or, more to the point, avoid by any means necessary) angry men. My WH is always angry about something - it's just infantile background noise to me at this point, and I get the fuck outta dodge when he's in one of those moods (it's actually sad, the whole family just shuts down around him now - either ignore him and continue with whatever we were doing/talking about, or literally all leave.) But if he were to express whatever the underlying emotion was, honestly, he'd be a lot more likely get whatever response he actually needed, rather than the family-wide eye-roll.