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How? What? When? Even at the start of our relationship, we gave each other our SM passwords. I helped her sister when she became pregnant as an 18 year old. I cared for her, and she seemingly cared for me too. When we would fight, she would always be the one to give in and be the better person. When I was angry at her, she would be so scared that I would leave her. And then I would assure her that I won't.

You have to understand that she lives in two different worlds. One with AP - I repeat it's not an affair, it was a relationship. And the other one with you - you were the side piece. The real relationship is with OM - OM is better than AP because theirs is a relationship. You were the other guy. You went in the picture while they were still having a 'relationship'. You married her, and she's still with OM despite being married to you. She lived in two different worlds.

The world with you which is known to the outside world as we know it. And the world with OP which is her real world because, I repeat, she was and still is in love with AP whether you agree with it or not, that's the truth. She can't make her world with AP known because he's not available but still theirs is a real relationship. Since he's not available for the real world, she/they decided to continue their own world hidden while showing you in our world. That's how they made it work.
But in their reality or in their point of view, you were/are the side piece. Theirs is real, yours is just for show.

Don't be affected by the multitude of love bombs and unlimited sex. That's to be expected from a cheater. She will give you all her world in order to not lose you.

Even at the start of our relationship, we gave each other our SM passwords.

Regarding your open communication, maybe they're using burner phones for their personal communication that's why they've never been outed. You should ask her that if she comes clean or not. Usually that's how cheaters cover their tracks. Or they might have a schedule for themselves already that even if they don't communicate, they have a fix time and place when and where they would meet.

I admire that you still don't want to out her from everyone. Despite what she's done to you, you still want to protect her. That's fine. You don't have to if that's what you want. But at least be honest with people. You can give them the truth without giving further details. At least they know who's in the wrong.

Again, if she even have a little bit of love for you. Even if she was having a relationship with OM, she should have treated you in the same way as she treated him. But No, she was giving all she got to OM while she decided to wait until you get married to give herself to you. See the big difference? If she was treating OM with all she's got then she should have given you the same thing, correct? Why wait until you get married to have sex with you while having all the sex with AP? Because, she doesn't love you! All her loving belongs to OM. What you got was a leftover. Sad but true! Just a leftover!
Think about it.

[This message edited by beb252 at 11:09 AM, Thursday, July 8th]

Hey, OP. Fellow LTA (and double betrayal) survivor here.

I can absolutely relate to the confusion and heartache that you’re feeling. You’re getting a lot of good advice here but let me reiterate: your wife is a liar, and has been lying since before you married her. It’s time to detach and focus on yourself and your son. Even if you want to reconcile after this giant mess, it will take years, tons of counseling, and and enormous amount of work to build a new marriage based on honesty and respect. Get yourself into counseling ASAP so you can work on healing from your shock and trauma and figure out if you even want a relationship with this person.

I’m offering my advice (gently) because I made so many mistakes after DD including jumping straight into MC and R. My children were young (2 &5) and I had a cancer dx shortly after DD which complicated things as well. Even with a spouse that was pretty ideal in terms of showing remorse and doing the work (and continuing to work on himself to this day, 4.5 years later) I regret my actions shortly after DD, wish I had worked harder on myself, and still think about divorce daily and what life might look like without this affair in my marriage history.

I noticed our classmates laughing, and when I looked up, I saw them teasing her because she was staring at me, on the verge of crying because she had told me to hang out with her but I didn't. She always wanted to hold hands with me. Always wanted to be with me.

Thank you for the more detailed disclosure.

Initially I believe you thought she was head over heels in love you with. Instead IMO her behavior is a sign of some sort of serious emotional problem.

An emotional problem that is not related to you.

IMO, (although she may love you) the above isn't a woman in love - instead the above behavior is driven by something else.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:45 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

She was always insecure because she was a "bad girl" and would ask me why I was attracted to her knowing her wild history of partying in the past.

Somehow I got the impression from your first post that your wife was a saint that was seduced by an evil smooth talker.

What did she mean by "bad girl"?

What country are you two from?

What consequences will she suffer for adultery (within the general community, professionally, and within her family)?

When I was angry at her, she would be so scared that I would leave her. And then I would assure her that I won't.

Let me continue.

After you assured her you won't she would just keep fucking AP.

Now you are angry at her, she is so scared that you would leave her. She is always crying and begging not to leave her. And if you assure her that you won't what will she do?

I agree very much with babbu about her being obsessive and not normal.

These behaviors that you see as love may also indicate an obsession. Yes, this person was doing much more to the other person while doing these shows to you. Since you only witness this part, the other part seems virtual to you, but they actually happened.

Here we say BSs "your old marriage is over". We can't even tell you that because your marriage never existed.

I understand your concerns about exposing. You said you live in Asia, I know the culture there is different from the western culture. In my country, this recommendation is not very valid too. Usually this is seen as an embarrassment to the man and men don't want it to be known. It is not wanted to be shown among the reasons for divorce, it is generally shown as severe incompatibility. But if you can at least ruin AP's career, I suggest you use it. You should also inform OBS if he is married or in a relationship.

Edit : The obsession we mentioned may not only apply to you but also to AP.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 6:02 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

I read your old post. So you went from this:

I was lucky if we had sex once a week, but I never relented asking for it everyday. One particular day, she had made a comment that I was a sex addict. This happened about 5 minutes after we had sex. I was taken aback because that was the first time we had sex in 3-4 weeks. That's when I decreased my intimacy requests to about once a week (which she would sometimes still turn down). I totally forgot about this until today.

to this:

I often get "woken" up each night by her hugging me and trying to initiate sex, trying to sort of get me off guard and lustful, and my repeated pleas to never do it again are unheard.

Ever since the affair was discovered has she flipped your sex life script completely? It's day and night, the denying you for so long (will get to the one off bunny-sex-a-thon to get pregnant later) and now all of a sudden she is clawing at you. I've never heard/read of wayward initiating hysterical bonding but is this what is happening here or is this manipulation on her part? You also wrote that she used your supposed lack of affection, when it was her pushing you away and rejecting any attempts to innate intimacy, as her excuse for cheating, it's very erratic behavior.

You mention she calls herself the "bad girl" yet this is from the same person who scolds you unjustly for wanting to be intimate even thought it's so infrequently? That doesn't gel so what does she mean? is she referring to now that she cheated? or her wild past?? How can she explain denying you intimacy, scolding you for it when you try to have some but also say she is a the bad girl for being wild? I sympathize CMD because that's so confusing I have no idea how you're trying to make sense of this.

You give examples of obsessive behavior around your WWs actions. There are frequent examples of begging and repetitive questioning to the point she doesn't even care about her personal hygiene (walking around with a face full of snot/ needing a shower) and repeats over and over if you are going to leave her not caring about anything else. You also mention an almost fixated shadowing when she was interested in you at school and if you didn't give her the "right" level of attention back that would make her sulk and almost cry. All disturbing. You then mention when she made her mind up to tell the world about her affair she, in an obsessive manor, told everyone, not just friends and family but strangers too.

See what I'm getting at with this? Again obsessive behavior. But there is more.

From reading her correspondence to AP are you picking up on, not a cry for help because she is depressed (her excuse), but more an obsession with him? Could the reason why he broke up with her be because he ran a mile away from the crazy lady? Not protecting or defending any AP here, just her motives/personality and why it never ended. In your own words, she continued for a year after AP broke up with her to try and get him back, that's some determination for "just sex". You assume he got what he wanted and then left but maybe it was her obsessiveness that pushed him away? Not for a minute do I believe there was no sex in those first two years, cheating adults do not "just kiss", if he wanted her do you honestly think he would wait two whole years and just stick to kissing when he got his hands on her? They weren't kissing out in public were they.

You also mention that she decided to save email correspondence with AP, choose not to delete it, so when you did find out she could prove the affair was over? I don't know what to make of that but that I get some cold calculation vibes off of that. She never intended for you to find out about the A, put all that effort into hiding those voicemails and texts you mentioned in the first post, lied and then lied again then lied some more but during all of that hiding and lying and gaslighting she chooses to keep "proof" for you? This is the same person right? What's giving the cold calculation vibes the most is it's planned convenient proof that this affair is over, everything else she was desperate to hide and lie about but this, this she chooses to keep. You would think all of it is kept then and shared or nothing at all.

Again the obsession is demonstrated with conception of your son, not only was she wanting it multiple times a day to fall pregnant but she forgot how pregnancy's tests even work and took one every three days? She is a MD, she should know what an ovulation cycle is and how pregnancy tests work, every 3 days??? They don't work like that, why the obsession with testing (and the fixation with conception)? As for paternity, I hear you, there is no doubt in your mind. Still up to you if you want to DNA test but PLEASE do not tell her your plans for this, she could tamper with test or results or it might spark new erratic obsessive behavior. Keep that quite, you do not need to tell her until after you have the results, or never. With the obsessive need to "try" to get pregnant right after you married, If the time with AP overlaps at all, even prior to the wedding, get one done. If your son was born early, get one done. But if there is no overlapping or if paternity is not an issue then don't get one, you're dealing with such an unhinged wayward while also trying to recover from infidelity and that is stressful enough.

CMD there are patterns here, not just recent behaviors. This is a wayward who needs help to be a safe partner, not just to figure out her "whys" for infidelity.

As for you losing weight, my therapist and doctor recommended meal replacement shakes, not only do that require no effort to make, they give you that boost of hydration needed (as you likely know) and keep up your nutrients needed to function. A lot of us are the same, the appetite just vanishes, we lose weight, we don't drink enough water, the shakes keep the nutrients and hydration up. Consider getting a tub to get through the week or fortnight, got to be healthy for bubs and yourself.

If you choose to R please don't rush into marriage counseling, your wife is not well and needs therapy for her to become a safe partner for you.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 9:31 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. Your wife probably felt “love” for both of you and in the end decided you were the winner. Hence, she felt that you would like to know you were the winner, and can’t believe your reactions. Of course, this makes her thinking warped, but at least it can explain the otherwise unexplainable.

Hard to believe she got through med school with her bizarre personality and behavior.

I think my posts have placed her in a negative light. Not making excuses for her, but I felt all this time that she was not obsessive, only loving and maybe unusually clingy. The reason I posted some of her past 'obsessive' behavior was because it was of a woman who was head over heels in love, totally opposite to the behavior of someone who has an affair. For example, the story about her almost crying only happened once (even though her glances were daily).

She felt she was a bad girl because I am what most people would consider a good guy. I have no vices. Rarely partied. I never considered her a bad girl. I actually was the one who decided to wait for sex until after marriage. So she was more comparing herself to me. Also, she was salutatorian in our med school class so she was very gifted academically, so noone considered her a bad girl in our class. In terms of patience, kindness and thoughtfulness, she blows me out of the water.

She went to her hometown once a month because we were planning to stay here (in hometown) permanently and we were already offered a good job here, we just waiting for my training to end in the other place, and she accepted the job in advance. Presently we are here in her hometown, and life is good financially.

She says she felt guilty during the affair but described a mix of helplessness, addiction, like she can't say no to AP when AP would pursue her and the fact that she was terrified that I would find out kept the affair going. She was too weak to say no. She says she tried to go back to OM for one year after he dumped her because she cant believe that all this time and effort was for nothing. That she betrayed me for nothing. She says her head was so illogical that time, that instead of being relieved the affair was over, she tried to reconcile with OM to justify her actions in her mind. When AP wanted to start the affair again, she had by then gained the strength to say no. This is all according to her.

Also, regarding withholding sex from me after the affair was over, she says its because she felt used during the affair, so she shut down sexually. She was disgusted with sex for those months afyer she initiated NC.

My son is the most adorable creature in this planet. I will try my best for him, whether to R or D.

She says she felt guilty during the affair but described a mix of helplessness, addiction, like she can't say no to AP when AP would pursue her and the fact that she was terrified that I would find out kept the affair going. She was too weak to say no.

Lame excuses.

I call this “little lost girl in the woods syndrome” - I don't know why some WW’s so routinely deploy this gambit but it seems to work on betrayed husbands who are caught up in Mr. Nice Guy feedback loops and KISA (knight in shining armor).

Your WW is not a helpless ingenue who needs a fainting couch. She's a grown woman with a medical degree.

Don't give her this soft landing. It is merely lacking in accountability and a more complicated way of saying “it was a mistake.”

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:24 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

Please bear with me, I'm typing with my phone in between hospital rounds. She says that she has always loved me, and I was the love of her life, but she is also a horrible, confused, and weak person at the same time. She wished she had this strength all along to say no to OM.

She told me that she wanted to have a child with me so bad because she thought it could give her the ability to finally free her from her self-imposed prison of infidelity.

All of these things she told me in the course of 2 hours today before I went to work. Sort of a bird's eye view of her mental state during the affair, according to her. I told her towards the end to pull herself together and be more responsible in the house and with our baby. She apologized and said that she was in awe of me being responsible enough while in such hurt. She has a book how to heal your spouse after an affair and she says she will start to read it. (Please suggest other books my friends). Also, I told her to stop crying so much (hypocritical in my part because I cant stop crying myself) and she said she will try to be more emotionally stable.

I told her that there is about an 85% probability that I will not decide to R. She took it quite well, surprisingly. But she told me that she wanted to expose and humiliate AP and, by extension, herself to prove that she wanted only me. I said very firmly to never do that. When I left, she promised to clean the house when the baby sleeps.

She says she felt guilty during the affair but described a mix of helplessness, addiction, like she can't say no to AP when AP would pursue her and the fact that she was terrified that I would find out kept the affair going. She was too weak to say no.

Do you see the dynamic she is trying to catalyze here: she wants your male "white knight" protective instinct to override your common sense.

Please don't apologize to us for possibly casting your WW in a "negative light". Shes a cheater, a liar, and a person who chooses to violate her marital vows. She has done more than enough to cast a negative light. The details suggesting she's frickin' loco is just a filigree.

"Too weak to say no." Consider the series of decisions and choices she had to make each time she had sex with him. She had to decide she would leave your marital home, meaning she would concoct a lie to tell you about where she was going. She had to choose what to wear. Put a key in her car's ignition and start the car, with the specific intent of going to meet another man for sex. Drive to their rendezvous point. Take off her clothes. Etc. At any point in this chain of choices, she could have chosen "no", yet she chose "yes" repeatedly, literally thousands of individual decision points of choosing "yes". Her story is complete bullshit.

You've only been married two years. You should run, screaming, from this unbelievably toxic place.

By the way, not exposing the AP, that's a huge mistake.

Been reading Mrswalloped's posts. Will try to read Walloped's when I have more time. If you are reading this, I hope the best for the both of you.

Id serve your spouse with divorve papers.

You will never trust your spouse ever again. Your relationship will forever be changed.

Trust me it may sound bad now, but moving on was the best thing I ever did. Four year marriage destroyed when my ex-wife cheated.

I was devestated. I fell to rock-bottom over night. After using my head I divorced my wife. At the time it was a very hard thing to do. I was scared and afraid my life was going to change. However my life had already changed because of her cheating.

Got my divorce, was miserable for a period of time. Felt like a failure. However it was the right thing to do.

Ended up meeting a good girl. We dated and ended up getting married. We've now been married for 20 years. I know I can trust her. She gives me 100% access to everything. (She knows my past with first wife). She knows my boundaries and she respects them.

I can tell you Im much better off today with 2nd wife than I was with my 1st cheating wife.

Had I not divorced my 1st wife I would not have mrt my 2nd wife.....

Wow!!!

Be careful.

I believe that her words that you are hearing and her actions you are seeing are not remorse for what she has done to you by repeatedly sleeping with her lover, BUT INSTEAD is her acting out of self-preservation!!!

I believe that she is regretting being caught, and she now realizes that she is in danger of losing her comfortable life, with her nice, safe, and loving husband, her marriage, her good name and reputation!!

I’m sorry, but based on what you have written, I see a woman

In crisis/self-preservation mode! I don’t see remorse.

Good luck. Stay Strong. And do what you must to be able to look the man in the mirror in the eye every morning.

I promise you will get through this. And I promise that the other side is amazing.

On the contrary, you are trying to present her in a positive light, and we are trying to remind you of the truth.

All this did not happen in a different order. All in the same order. She lived a double life and you thought she had last contacted AP in 2012.

He was there when you weren't there, and he was always there when you were.

AP was in hometown, couldn't that be one reason why she wanted to come back there again? You would definitely earn well wherever you are.

She was too weak to say no. She says she tried to go back to OM for one year after he dumped her because she cant believe that all this time and effort was for nothing. That she betrayed me for nothing.

Bullshit. Even if we accept her own story as true (which I don't think), she was able to say no to sex for 2 years, they just kissed. If it was something she didn't want that much, she should have felt liberated the moment AP dumped her.

Btw, you've learned that you are worth to be betrayed for "something" but not worth for "nothing".

After all, we're not here to judge you, and you don't have to convince us.

I don't know how I can contribute more to what we're going around.

The last thing I can say is that on one hand are the facts that you cannot change, on the other are the things you want them to be. Truth has a habit of coming out sooner or later.

I hope everything goes as you want.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 11:22 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

When you have WWs who say they can break away from their A, they are so helpless… you get to wonder what will happen next time they meet a guy who give them a compliment?

They don’t have self-awareness?

Why R with someone who has no control and will go along with whoever comes along?

Your WW has to be a safe partner to consider R.

Your WW seems very damaged. Her behavior is quite gross. Hope you make the right decision. Co-parenting does work. Do not chain yourself to this weak, damaged person or you will suffer continued heartache in the years to come.

Been reading Mrswalloped's posts. Will try to read Walloped's when I have more time. If you are reading this, I hope the best for the both of you.

people might disagree with me. But, IMO mrswalloped is not an example of remorseful WS. I have read meswalloped's threads multiple times. She is a very smart woman who just showed enough remorse to stay in the marriage. A true WS needs to be selfless without caring about outcome. mrswalloped is definitely not that. On multiple times, she expressed her desire to move on (wasting time, "not getting any younger") if her marriage failed.

If you want to read about truly remorseful WS, read hikingout's threads. She was so remorseful that she even offered to have less favorable asset division in case of divorce. It's truly unfortunate that she was revenge cheated by her WH later. IMO, she is a truly remorseful spouse.

Most of the people in this forum hold mrswalloped as an epitome of a remorseful WS. I wholeheartedly disagree with that. I strongly believe if not for their youngest child and the other guy was not a serial cheater, she would have jumped ship without hesitating. IMO, there is no difference between mrswalloped and sosorry17. mrswalloped is intelligent enough to work (manipulate) the crowd in her favor. You should read hikingout's thread.

Again, its not personal attack on anyone. I spent too long on this forum. I always see people ending up recommending mrswalloped. I cringe at that. Finally, I said it!!

I gotta agree with the above. MrsWalloped IS NOT a WW that you would want your W to model her behaviors pre or post D-Day. IMHO, her A was one of the most despicable and disrespectful to her BH that I've read about and their R is more about him accepting the shit sandwich she served up than any real "work" she's done.

OP, listen to balbichi and ButAnyway. They are dead on with their comments that MrsWalloped's behavior/posts do not serve as any sort of role model for WW's. BraveSirRobin's and HikingOut's posts should serve as the baseline to see if a WW truly gets it.

That story haunts me. The utter lack of empathy, highlighted by her last post, makes me pray the whole story is a troll post.

[This message edited by AnOminousMan at 4:45 PM, July 8th (Thursday)]