SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry for the late update, have been working a lot. Which for me is good to clear my head.

As long as I can focus on something the turmoil in my head stays away. If I have questions about the timeline or have certain feelings regarding the situation I write them down on a list. We agreed to sometime soon we would go and sit and read the timeline together and we would also deal with my list.

We still are separated from each other and speak each other sometimes to talk about our feelings. Sometimes these conversations end positive and sometimes in arguments. I recently called her out during an argument and told her if it wasn't for her straying we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

This really broke her and she did not stop crying. She told me she was sorry and I asked her where she felt sorry about. She told me it was everything. I said I need you to be more specific. She said crying that she was sorry for having hurt me by having an affair and being selfish.

Our feelings go up and down towards eachother.

Most anger is out of my system now. It is just sadness and pain now.

[This message edited by TheLastPak at 7:14 AM, July 16th (Friday)]

And how is your WW treating you? is there empathy and compassion. Does she not express frustration that you can’t get over it?

Will you request that you each do individual therapy, her with an infidelity specialist and you with a trauma specialist?

She knows that the path we are travelling now is the most difficult path we could choose. She is very grateful to get the chance to reconcile and has expressed this multiple times to me. She is reaaly showing remorse. She knows I have my up and downs and is really trying to help in her way and asks if she is not triggering me. She asks me if it is ok if she touches me.

Therapy is a bit difficult for us as we live abroad and the language barrier is especially difficult for my WW. It is very important to be able to convey your feelings and emotions during therapy so this option we do not have. We are looking into online therapy.

Do you have a brother or a good friend (man) you can talk to about this?

Maybe you should plan for a week's vacation on your own (hiking, fishing, travelling) to get away from your wife and think about what this means to you. And how you feel about your wife.

I have a brother and sil who both know of the situation. They are helping me a lot.

I currently am on my own and when I have the time I go running, hiking or cycling. I live close to the mountains and I like going there.

I have already forgiven my wife. Hardest part is dealing with the knowledge and trying to build a new relationship with someone who hurt me.

Be careful of forgiving too early. Some call this cheap forgiveness as it has not been earned by the WS and is born of a desire for the BS's world to get back to normal as quickly as possible. In a sense, it is a form of rig sweeping. She will only value your forgiveness if it costs her dearly through her doing the hesvyvlifting of changing herself, showing humility and remorse (not regret), and being fully there for you, OVER TIME. The key is long term consistency. This one is tough for waywards, as long term often does not factor into their psyche. They are more transaction, short term gratification.

Often, western philosophy, especially religion pushes forgiveness as a divine quality we are to imitate. But as with many things, people miss the point and take the doormat approach. Look at it this way. Who bears the highest cost for the purchase?

If your WW has had some thrilling sexual experiences which made her feel (insert bullshit here), then only had to feel bad and shed a few tears before everything returned to normal, it really is a cost effective deal for her. In fact, it is so cheap as to be an attractive option again.

You on the other hand, bear the entire cost of a purchase you had no say in making. And to add to that, you had no thrilling experiences in exchange for the very high price.

Now, the price she pays will never be equal, as she removed all agency from you, not only at the time, but over time, it should not be so cheaply bough as to make it worthless.

I ultimately chose to D which I now feel should be the default option with R offered only after the WS has moved earth and heaven, on their knees in contrition. By offering R right away, the BS has given up power and has demonstrated that if push comes to shove, they will do nothing to jeopardize the status quo. This is one reason that the 180 works so well. It puts the ball in your court.

You on the other hand, bear the entire cost of a purchase you had no say in making.

You bear your cost. Your W bears hers. Different costs, but ultimately, hers are higher than yours.

But that fucking doesn't matter. The competition for feeling worse is wasted effort. Competition over who feels worse just adds to your pain.

You heal you. There is no way anyone else can heal you. No one else knows your pain. You can't describe your pain to anyone else, because pain is feeling, pain is emotion, and words can only begin to describe something that is not verbal.

My reco is not to distract yourself from the turmoil in your head. Yes, you have to work effectively. Work to earn money is probably healing. But the fastest way through the pain of being betrayed is to pay attention to the turmoil, figure out what you're feeling, and just feel the feeling.

It is something men are taught NOT to do, so you probably need to be taught. Maybe your brother and SIL can teach you. If they don't or can't, find a good IC.

*****

Cycling, of course, is essential. And mountains ... I did 1000' of climbing over 23 miles yesterday - 0.8% average grade. What sort of grade are your mountains?

Of course, if I lived near mountains, I'd probably wish for flat land....

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:00 PM, July 16th (Friday)]

Stop letting her use drug use and depression as excuses for her affairs. She fucked these other guys because she wanted to. Plain and simple. She got off on these guys wanting her. She got off on the attention and the thrill of screwing around behind your back. It was dirty, naughty and obscene and she loved it. She enjoyed the memories of them and is not one bit sorry for them.

She is sorry you finally stopped accepting her bullshit lies. She's sorry she finally got caught.

I am so sick of these cheaters blaming their brazen behavior on depression. It does a huge disservice to people who actually suffer from real depression and mental illness. There are millions of people in the world who suffer from real depression, anxiety, OCD, and BPD who do not cheat on their spouses or partners. Why? Because their values and morality trump their illnesses. Your WW is valueless and profane. That is why she cheated.

If she had depression, it was most likely caused by the drug abuse. The drug abuse lowered her inhibition to cheat on you, which was her desire to do.

[This message edited by TheWrongOne at 1:01 PM, July 16th (Friday)]

^^^^This^^^^

Exactly this, OP.

Depression had zero to do with her cheating. Same goes for the drugs.

They're excuses, crutches even, that she is using to justify and rationalize her cheating.

She told me she was sorry and I asked her where she felt sorry about. She told me it was everything. I said I need you to be more specific. She said crying that she was sorry for having hurt me by having an affair and being selfish.

TheLastPak

At least she told the truth. She is not sorry for the sex itself. To her the sex act is like shaking hands. No big deal.

She lied to you when you confronted her. You had to bluff that you already knew in order for her to tell about her affair.

She is sorry for hurting you. If you didn’t know you would not be hurting and she would be fine.

Because you are hurting she might lose the day to day husband stuff you do. At 50 she is less desirable to men than she was 15 years ago.

She may be sorry for hurting you but she is also sorry for herself.

She knows getting a new husband as good as you at 50 will be difficult.

[This message edited by Michigan at 2:17 AM, July 17th (Saturday)]

Good post, Michigan. That part stuck out to me as well.

Dupe

[This message edited by GoldenR at 11:49 PM, July 16th (Friday)]

Well said ^^^^^

Take one day at a time.

Michigan nailed it.

She had her fun.

Now she is facing down the barrel of being a single 50 year old woman with a history of cheating.

It is all about self preservation now.

Congratulations on being the sincere reliable fallback guy! You were not that exciting back then but you certainly look like a keeper now that she's 50!

You forgive and reconcile too soon. No consequences here. Crying tears now but she had wonderful drug sex back then and gave herself to someone else willingly.

Grow a pair dude! Move on. You deserve better. Your Kid is old enough!

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but its the only way I see it!

For 15 years she lied to your face, slept with you in your marital bed while thinking about all those vile things she did without even a single sign of remorse. Now she's showing signs of remorse, crying bitterly in front of you at 50 years old. She'd done all those things while she was in her prime. Her prime that should have belonged to you. She should have spent her prime focused on your marriage but she spent it with all those guys, on drugs high on both and spent all her prime days either having plenty of sex with others and plenty of drugs in her system.

Before you fully decide to reconcile, think about all these things she'd done, to you and your marriage. That's not a sign of remorse, that's a sign of a woman who's already way past her prime and nowhere else to go. You don't owe her a thing, she owes you a lot... a lot of apologies a lot of affection she denied to you for all those prime years.

As I always say, she spent 15 years lying to your face, what makes you think she's telling the truth now?

As most here have said, there's a big difference between a 50 year old newly single guy than a 50 year old newly divorced woman.

Think about it.

[This message edited by beb252 at 11:36 PM, Saturday, July 17th]

But that fucking doesn't matter. The competition for feeling worse is wasted effort. Competition over who feels worse just adds to your pain.

Okay, that was exactly not the point I was not making, but I do appreciate the nuanced feedback.

To put even a finer point on it, a thing is valued, even treasured, if it is dearly earned. It holds objective value, the value we assign to it culturally (its trading power), and symbolic value that we personally associate with it. So, that worthless children's toy one keeps has almost no objective value, but is irreplaceable due to the symbolic value you assign to it over time. Similarly, an expensive car might be objectively valuable, but can be replaced with an identical car, so has little symbolic value.

This is why we make children earn things, even if we have the ability to simply give them those. If you give your WW cheap forgiveness, it is apt to been seen as a worthless trinket that is easily cast aside. But if she earns it, painfully and by degrees, it will be a immeasurably valuable treasure to her, one that she will guard with her life.

Or as the last poster said, just a competition....

Well then... I guess you may have noticed, OP, that if you're ever in the market for angry villagers to wield torches and pitchforks on your behalf, we appear to be fully stocked.

I have already forgiven my wife. Hardest part is dealing with the knowledge and trying to build a new relationship with someone who hurt me.

I think doing the online therapy will help alot because of the language barrier you all are having. Try to find a therapist who has experience in infidelity and trauma, and if possible, one who is familiar with John Gottman's techniques. You might read through a copy of Gottman's What Makes Love Last: How to Build Trust and Avoid Betrayal. The cool think about this book is that the author looks at trust from all angles and even though you might feel like your trust for your WW is at an all-time low, there are so many different aspects of trust that you might build on. As I went through the quizzes and answered in the affirmative such questions as "Has your spouse ever cheated?" and "Do you think your spouse will cheat?", I found that my trust metric for my fWH was really quite high. I still trusted him with finances, kids, even to take care of me if I were sick. So, it's good to have a bit of a reminder that things might not be a bleak as they FEEL because they really FEEL like shit.

Also, while you're looking for a therapist, you might search online for information on Gottman's The Four Horseman essay. Share it with your WW. It can help you with your communications so that you're not damaging one another as you search for a therapist.

If you're pretty certain that you're sticking with R, you can open a new thread in Reconciliation to talk about how you're feeling and any problems you're having with the R process. With your goal out front though, there might be a little less disparaging of your WW.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s so hard to wrap your head around the fact she kept the secret so long. My xh kept hid A a secret seven years and I’m sure he would’ve kept it longer except we were in marriage counseling because he was drinking excessively and watching porn. It came out in MC and we worked on it.we R and remained M 5 more years when he did it again. No more for me.

Please do not make any rapid decisions either way. Have you read the tactical program? Keep reading and posting here. SI helped me through many rough times.

Hey @TheLastPak,

Just seeing how things have been going for you the past 2+ weeks with you and your marriage.