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We are talking about property split, documents, etc and it inevitably slips into something other than that. I am unable to fully avoid it.

From this, and the text to her Mom she seems to be thinking in terms of "trying out" the other relationship but not divorce. She's only looking at the fun thing. New place, new boyfriend, ... not the difficult decisions, loss of property, money, stability... she thinks those things will still be around for her if she ignores the topic... doesn't think about it, discuss it.

I would be careful about the way you word things with her. She wants to think of this as a seperation not a divorce. If you say things like "we can work things out later or maybe in the future, or I still love you and will be there if you need me...." I'd be firm about the marriage and friendship being over once she steps out that door.

If you aren't ready to give her an ultimatium I'd word it as a deteriorating relationship. Everyday I see you doing nothing, trying nothing, saying nothing makes it easier to let this go end this. At some point there will be nothing left and it will be impossible to rebuild. Just make it clear that she isn't putting things on hold she's just witteling away at your resolve.

[This message edited by Freeme at 11:15 AM, July 19th (Monday)]

Seems like a pretty clear 'exit affair' and yet through all these actions she won't give me the closure of admitting it's over for her.

You don't need her "admission" you KNOW she's chosen to have another relationship with POSOM, it should be "OVER FOR YOU" not for her, she's in an ACTIVE A, so act accordingly and end this farce of a M and dump this unremorseful cheater and liar, life's too short and you deserve so much better.

In terms of actual news I learned she is looking for apartments and that the text she sent to her mother admitting of the cheating (yes, a text) said she "decided" to see if she had feelings for someone else because she thought the spark in our marriage was gone. Seems like a pretty clear 'exit affair' and yet through all these actions she won't give me the closure of admitting it's over for her.

Cake eater. Most want to keep their options open.

Bud, that’s all you are is an option to be discarded at a later date if the shiny new guy works out.

If he doesn’t will she find another later on? Repeats happen.

As you reflect back you’ll probably see this Is who she is.

Not uncommon thinking. This isn’t her. She wouldn’t do this. I just can’t believe it.

Bud, her actions say this is her.

She’s never going to give you closure. Closure comes from within.

All you’ll get from her is an extended stay in limbo. Twisting in the wind.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:51 AM, July 19th (Monday)]

She took two things from you, and google these:

"psychology personal agency" - she took openness away from you, she took truth away. Basically, by lying to you, she robbed you of your ability to make clear, informed decisions about your life and its direction.

"psychology personal narrative" - this is the story you have of how you got to where you are. By lying to you, betraying and deceiving, she took broke your personal narrative. When this happens people are hugely unsettled. They have to rebuild a personal narrative while processing the betrayal at the same time.

These are the types of trauma that can easily result in PTSD.

Look yourself in the mirror and start saying out loud all of the things that she's done:

1) broke your personal narrative

2) took your agency

3) cheated, lied, deceived

4)...

Then think about what you'd tell a friend who came to you with the same story. What advice would you give?

Become or continue to be that grey rock.

She developed feelings for a film flam used car salesman.

Who is the winner?

You are. You are doing well as can be. Hit the gym and eat healthy. Become the one that got away from a toxic WW.

One day at a time.

On another note, only time will tell us the truth but...she has told me OM is going to tell OBS and I presume, leave her. Regardless of the discussion on if this is true, if WW is lying, if OM is lying to WW, whatever...if it is true I can't help but wonder how long until he decides he is bored. For her sake, hopefully it's before she becomes his 4th wife. But history says otherwise. Or maybe she'll snap out of it and try to come crawling back to me stirring up these terrible emotions all over again.

I've seen this happen A LOT. They don't fight the separation because they think they have something bigger and better waiting for them. Then when things crash they come back running with the sudden realization that they were wrong, they were misguided, they were fools, oh the misery... IF this happens, be aware and stay strong. Right now you're the Plan B for when things crash with OM.

Did I miss something? Why is everyone trying to convince you that D would be the right choice? You're already committed to a D, right?

Did I miss something? Why is everyone trying to convince you that D would be the right choice? You're already committed to a D, right?

We are working towards a separation, yes. But it's not done until it is done so I came seeking support and continued advice. And I received continued overwhelming support.

[This message edited by Maxwell354 at 6:06 PM, July 19th (Monday)]

Maxwell354,

Why a separation and not a divorce? If she is in the affair fog and hopeful for a relationship with the OM, she may be more amenable to favorable divorce terms. Doesn't sound like she is wife material or remorseful in any way, so why wait? The sooner you D the sooner you can heal and move on.

Why a separation and not a divorce? If she is in the affair fog and hopeful for a relationship with the OM, she may be more amenable to favorable divorce terms. Doesn't sound like she is wife material or remorseful in any way, so why wait? The sooner you D the sooner you can heal and move on.

Wrong term. We are working on being "done". I don't want to get into legal specifics any further until it's all finished. In my despair I didn't pick what I would call the least obvious username.

Thanks devotedman. Those terms are new to me and helpful for understanding my current situation.

You'd not be human if you didn't feel wobbly from time to time, Maxwell. Here's the thing though... you don't listen to a cheater's words, you watch their actions. Your WW is off with her family, hunting for apartments, dividing up your stuff, and still in contact with the AP as of just a few days ago if memory serves.

You're right though, it hasn't even been two weeks since you found out. So, if you want to slow this thing down, that's your prerogative. That said, if you already KNOW it's a deal-breaker, that's okay too. You're not obliged to slow down, and cheater's are NOT owed second chances. For pete's sake, she just texted her mother that she blew up your marriage because she wasn't feeling "sparks". You could divorce her on sheer stupidity and no one could judge you harshly for it.

While it's true that you've got to have something you can work with in order to make R happen, it's also true that this is subject to possible change. IOW, she might be a recalcitrant mess, spouting stupid excuses and avoiding meaningful confrontation, only to turn around in a couple of weeks and realize she's been an absolute idiot and let her pride get in her way. If you feel like you're rushing, chances are, you're rushing. You can always slow it down to the pace that makes the most sense to YOU. Take a week off. Hell, take two if you can afford it. Get out on a beach or in a cabin or wherever you feel peaceful, and think about what you want out of your life. After that, what is possible in your life? Could you really ever trust this person again enough to have a family? Trust is never the same. I'm in R myself, and trust can work on many levels, but it's NEVER naive and innocent again. Can you live with that?

Anyway, don't feel like you HAVE to do anything. There are no rules for how to deal with a broken heart and a broken marriage. It has to be about YOU, what you can tolerate in your life, and what you want for your future.

Well I found a counselor so that is good. Took a lot of calls to get a call back even.

Tele-visit set for Friday to get started. Hopefully it’s beneficial.

In the meantime read Lying by Jonathan Wallace. It’s an old article in the ethical spectacle. It’s about as good as anything I have ever read about being lied to and why it’s so damaging.

An old article in NY Times by Anna Fels is very good as well.

Seems like a pretty clear 'exit affair' and yet through all these actions she won't give me the closure of admitting it's over for her.

Don't try and get 'closure' from a liar. It is the worst thing you could ever do to yourself. This just gives them a chance to manipulate you more.

On the other hand, it is also used by some BS as crutch to keep hanging on. If this is the case, please stop it.

Ultimately, closure can only be achieved within yourself. You do not need any external sources for your closure.

Am not going to suggest you D or r, but stop this 'need for closure' ASAP. If you keep chasing it, you would be keeping yourself in a position that will be detrimental to you on the long run.

Just let go.

If the WS truly wants to be with you, you will see the huge amount of consistent effort they will invest into making themselves safe for you.

Well curiosity got the best of me so I checked the same email. She is still sending the guy nudes. Must have forgotten to delete one from her sent folder.

No surprise but I guess reinforcement is good at this point.

Sorry you have to go through that. I'm sure it's still painful even though it confirms you are on the right track.

Sorry you have to go through that. I'm sure it's still painful even though it confirms you are on the right track.

If I had listened to everyone here I’d have already been complete no contact and a bit further down the road. Instead I’m still spending time doing this. But yes, good information to know, bad information to see.