SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello, new user here, fairly recent d-day discovery. To put some back history on the story before I get to the main event I and the WW have been together 24 years, married for 7, I am 57 she is 53. We own a small farm (that is paid for) and all our kids are grown and long gone, this has never been what you would call a perfect relationship and hard decisions had to be made early on as my kids would have never adopted her as a mother had we tied the knot long ago.

Consequently we had split houses for the first 17 years, there were your normal relationship issues (child rearing etc.) but no major blowups and (for me at least) it was all in all a great run. 2018 (spring) I destroyed my right shoulder rushing some much needed fencing work so our stock would have a place to stay shoulder was in a very bad way and I was still trying to work a part time job at the time. I couldn't continue and the wife asked me to just stay home (she had a at home job) everything is fine (or at least seemed to me to be fine) wife as I now know is a habitual liar) February of 2019 I get covid (were no tests for it at that time) it winds up causing me some serious heart issues, about the time we found out I had the issues they locked the hospitals down and I could not get seen about my problem for about 5 months, by the end of it I now have a permanent heart issue that is requiring large dosses of medicine to keep it under control

The heart medicine destroyed my ability to perform which sent me into a massive depression, things were looking pretty bleak to me and I withdrew from life hard. Over time the medicine has controlled the issues and I started to get better in a variety of ways this brings us to Juneish 2021 I started noticing my WW giving off some strange vibes (I was still in a depression just not quit as deep as I had been, for full disclosure I had not had any relations with her over that two year span, couldn't the medicine had for all intents stopped it)

She started making all sorts of excuses to be gone here and there, where she used to go to the store once or twice a week she was going 4 or 5 times a week now, She thinks she is being slick but I was still so out of it that I noticed I just didn't care at the time. I keep trying to catch her computer on when she leaves, but she is managing it pretty well and I didn't want to force a fight over the password at the time.

This rolls on for a few months and it is getting plain she is in an affair (always on the phone with her "kids" etc. etc.) I go in for a checkup around mid August, doc says things are looking much better changes my medicine up and things start to change for me almost immediately (more energy,sleeping better things are starting to work again) we roll forward to the night before our anniversary and d-day (lovely right? I find out on our f'ing anniversary) (11/24/21) I have not touched this woman in years (not for the lack of wanting trust me) but she rolls over and things happen (I should not have but she is hard to resist) we get up the next morning and start doing normal chores, she tells me she has to rush to the store (at 7:30 am roflmao) but today....on our anniversary she is sloppy....she jets and doesn't make sure the computer is locked down.

I jump on it pull up history see some strange things, pull them up, find a running facebook private message with some guy for around 4 or 5 months, I read some of the gory details they talk about I make screen shots for possible divorce court proceedings, text her and tell her not to come back home and send several of the screen shots to her from the laptop. This Insane fool comes home and we have a massive knock down drag out,she leaves. I am absolutely devastated, everything we have worked for for 24 years goes up in smoke in a few minutes (She had been taking racy pictures for months before the affair, when I asked about them she said she wanted to see what she looked like, roflmao I said you wanted to see what your P looked like? she can not or will not state the truth no matter how many times I give her the opportunity to do so)

I continue to dig and find out that before she found this AP she had been on AFF (holy cow that place is degenerate city) I ask her about all this, she immediately deflects with I was lonely and looking for affection (affection is not what is for sale on AFF, roflmao) To his day she keeps trying to say the A is all my fault due to circumstances that were well beyond my control and she knows that it was, her delusions will not let her see this though. We are living in different houses for about 10 days, we finally talk and she wants to come back home, I allow her too (probably a major mistake but the dogs were really missing her and I was willing to try to give her a chance if she comes clean and decides to ACTUALLY repair things)

We are now 6 weeks into this and last night was her first IC session, I was a bad person but I do not trust her at all (as I said I realize now she is a habitual liar) so I had a VOR record her first session (I know I shouldn't have) but I figured knowing her she would give a very slanted tale to the IC, well true to my thoughts she did exactly that and worse.

I am not sure where I am going to go from here, I have to guard this VOR info closely as I do not want her to know I heard every word that was said (great recorder I could hear every word IC said as well) I was willing to give her a chance to R but I am now in a precarious spot, knowing her real story and what she said to IC was polar opposite what she is saying in daily life (she has always had an issue with pot in her life as well, she thinks she does it without my knowing but, well that hasn't worked out for her too well, This morning she decides to come clean about the pot and says the IC said she should throw it away (never happened they never talked about that) this woman appears to be too broken to save, she has wrecked my world, this is the worst I have ever been hurt and while I know my issues added fuel to her fire, I also know this is a decision she made on her own and that part of it is not on me. She did tell the IC she couldn't live with the current transparency rules we have (gleaned from here) she said she had no privacy, roflmao like I would trust her with any privacy at this point

I know it is a rambling long story but I wanted to get as much back story into as possible to work thru this in my own head if nothing else, I am sad to lose 24 years of work, but at this point I am not sure what else to do.

Welcome to SI. You said you've been reading here a bit, but if you haven't found it yet, you might try reading through some articles in the Healing Library. You'll find that in the banner overhead.

Right now, you're just a few weeks out from your dday, and as you've said, your health is tenuous. The very best thing you can do right now is to engage in good self-care. That would mean eating what you can, sleeping when possible, hydrating but avoiding alcohol altogether, and getting some light exercise. You'll want to see your doctor for STD testing because really, who knows what might have happened this early on. But that will also give you and opportunity to talk with your doctor about stress management. This kind of trauma takes a heavy toll on the body. I remember being about four months out from dday, and so sick to my stomach all the time that I'd have divorced my fWH on the spot if it had meant relief. So, you don't want to wait too long thinking you can power through on your own, particularly when you've already been through a bad depression.

...this woman appears to be too broken to save, she has wrecked my world, this is the worst I have ever been hurt and while I know my issues added fuel to her fire, I also know this is a decision she made on her own and that part of it is not on me.

None of this is on you. Cheating is about character. It's about the relationship the cheater has with their core values and whether or not they truly honor the things they say they do; integrity. There's a "but..." in there. ie. She believes in Fidelity, but... not if she's looking for affection." You see how that works, right? Her core values mean NOTHING if they are predicated on someone else's behavior. Our truest beliefs can't be contingent on the actions (or non-actions) of others. When someone is trying to convince you that that's the case, they're lying to you and probably to themselves as well. Nothing you did (or didn't do) could MAKE your WW abandon her core values and behave in a way that is antithetical to good character. Her values were weak and permeable, hence the lack of boundaries.

It's still pretty early to decide weather or not she can turn it around. Believe it or not, it's NORMAL for WS's to try to lie their way out of trouble, not much different than kids really, and making just about as much sense. But yeah.. typical. This doesn't mean she can't/won't do better later. Of course, you are at no obligation to wait around for that. No cheater is owed a second chance. Cheaters most often have committed themselves to the mental gymnastics it took to be capable of ignoring their conscience, and usually, it take time for them to get untwisted, so if you are wanting R, a rocky start after dday doesn't mean that it's not possible.

A word about VARs... This is a very useful tool when you're dealing with someone who has become unpredictable, but you'll want to check your local wiretapping laws and make sure you're not doing anything which could result in your arrest. The key word there was "unpredictable", right? It's difficult to keep a clear head when you're traumatized, but you don't want to get into legal trouble on top of everything else going on.

I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but you'll be alright. It's a tough slog, no doubt about it, but the pain is temporary and finite. Count on it.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:56 PM, Friday, December 10th]

Site, sorry you find yourself here, and I also hope you fully recover from your illness.

Look, you know your WW is a habitual liar, so there is little value in having discussions with her. You know she will lie, just like she did to her IC. I suspect that many WW/WHs lie to their IC when the the BS is not there to check their answers. I mean, who is gonna know, unless the IC is good and willing to call them on their BS. Not all ICs will do that b/c they don't want to lose a client.

I think the most important thing you take away from this is that the woman that was suppose to get your back, through thick and thin, for better or worst just showed you SHE AINT GONNA BE THERE FOR YOU. She does not have your back. Let that sink in and you should make your move based on that knowledge. She just showed you over a period of 2 yrs that she is a Johnny come lately, she is not a safe partner and DEFINITELY NOT A LOYAL Partner.

Loyalty, Trust rein supreme in a marriage and you have neither. Do what you must, but she is something I'd be watching my back on all the time, and that's no way to live.

"A word about VARs... This is a very useful tool when you're dealing with someone who has become unpredictable, but you'll want to check your local wiretapping laws and make sure you're not doing anything which could result in your arrest."

I deleted it after checking the bs, just needed to know how many lies had been told in one go

"Site, sorry you find yourself here, and I also hope you fully recover from your illness."

Unfortunately there is no full recovery, it is as good as it will probably ever be currently, funny thing is she was
complaining constantly last night to the IC about what medical bills I had accrued over the heart issue,then this morning
tries to tell me how concerned she is that I am about to go back to work (have no choice I cant trust her any longer)

The constant lies make me sick to my stomach, I cant abide two faced people and this one is a major one. When she walks into any room I am in it makes me want to throw up, I cant stand being near her currently, especially after that bs session last night with her IC, I am hoping this person is not stupid enough to believe the tales she was telling last night. I cant see wasting the time and money on an IC to tell 98% lies? makes no sense, why even mess with it?

Hi, welcome to SI, the best club no one wants to join. So sorry you find yourself here.

My time is short right now, but wanted to tell you weekends tend to be a bit slow so stay with us.

If your wife is unwilling to be an open book and completely transparent, she is not a good candidate for R.

The only privacy she has right now is using the restroom (without her phone). That's it.

It took my husband years to earn my trust back, and even after that time, I had access to everything and knew exactly where he was and who he was with. It's been 15 years. No secrets.

Hey Site I can relate to the "habitual liar" problem. By the way, who is paying for her IC?

I'm just here to say this, cut and run. See, all cheaters lie, but not all cheaters are habitual liars. I found out the hard way because the "love goggles" were stuck on my face and I kept explaining away most of her "harmless" lies. The habitual liar can't be reasoned with. They look like they're paying attention while you make your appeal to reason with them and about 10 seconds in their eyes glaze over. That's the point that their mind is already off and running thinking of a rebuttal that nearly always begins with "Yeah, but..." or "OK, but..." Sound familiar?

Man, your brain is going is going to dick with you. You are going reminisce on the things you like about her. I'm betting she can be a charmer. The juice really isn't worth the squeeze. And you'll really appreciate it when you have time and distance from her. Believe it.

This all boils down to character. Either good character or bad character but she has one or the other.

You need to be one hundred percent invested in staying as healthy as you can. I live with a man who had a rheumatic heart murmur, heart attack, open heart surgery, a fib and is still here. His congestive heart failure left after surgery. So having a caring physician helps but the most important is living as stress free as possible. This kind of stress can shorten your life if you don’t get it under control. See a dr and ask about something to help you manage. Also sleep. Make sure you get enough. Eat healthy. No alcohol at all.

Please look at separating for a while. Living with a liar will ruin your life.

You should have kept the recording. You're soooo unlikely to get in any kind of trouble that it's not worth mentioning.

The recordings are for you. For your knowledge. For your empowerment. Knowledge is power.

That recording let you know exactly who and what you are dealing with: a habitual, manipulative, utterly selfish liar.

I hope you didn't really delete the recording, or you can recover it.

That recording was your anchor to reality. When your wife spins more tales, and has you doubting yourself, you could listen to it and know how little she can be trusted.

Keep strong. It appears that you have been manipulated by this woman for a while. You have to train yourself to withstand her "psycho"-logical games.

Site:

Sorry you find yourself here, but you will receive good support. I hope your heart issues continue to improve. Know that your health issues, out of your control, did not add fuel to the fire. Nothing you did or didn’t do caused her to cheat. Your WW chose to cheat because she wanted to. Period.

You seem to have a pretty good handle on your WW’s m.o. A habitual liar and deceitful during her A and after. Lying to her IC. Take care of you. Take the steps you need to lessen your stress levels. Right now your WW does not appear to be remorseful. You have suffered an emotional trauma. Take time to heal. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:09 AM, December 11th (Saturday)]

First rattle out of the box this morning she is doing the regretful spouse routine, mention one thing and that ends that, all the sudden it is because I was a bad husband not for the 2 1/2 years that I have had issues but now it is 5 years....it doubled overnight.

I did delete the recording, but it has opened my eyes even farther as to how deceitful she really is, apparently her IC said she wanted to have a session with us both at first I told her no, but since she said the IC told her to lose the pot because it is an issue for me. If I agree I have a opportunity to blow that lie up with her IC that maybe worth the time.

My wifes insurance is covering her IC, not sure how many "sessions" it covers for free but 5 or 6 then it starts coming out of her hsa

Indeed it is a character issue, a serious one. Even more troublesome to me is the constant lie's/half truths/omissions this seems to me to be a much deeper issue (possibly some mental issue) and undermines any faith I have in resolving this, she wonders why I distrust her totally but at the same time cant see her lies are the source of that distrust the affair is a symptom of her character, the lies....those are absolute game breakers for me.

After I listened to the IC recording and one of the last things she all but bragged about to the IC was that she knew how to "push my buttons" her days of button pushing are over, I disregarded her attempts at pushing buttons all day so far :) she is frustrated to say the least.

The whole "privacy" thing is a non starter for me, if that changes one bit I will have the lawyer file the divorce papers immediately (have already seen him and all is ready to go) and when I do this I am going to file a for cause divorce with her and AP's "love messages and photos" so if any of her family is involved they get to see how proud she is of what she did (this will be a soul crusher for her as she tries to make everyone think she is so pure)

[This message edited by Site at 7:51 PM, Saturday, December 11th]

Brother, I wouldn’t waste energy with her IC, get with your lawyer and get the D done.

What does she bring to your life at this point?
Nothing good, I would argue, so why stay tied to her?

...apparently her IC said she wanted to have a session with us both at first I told her no, but since she said the IC told her to lose the pot because it is an issue for me. If I agree I have a opportunity to blow that lie up with her IC that maybe worth the time.

If you're done, then I would agree with OrdinaryDude, why waste time? But if you're not sure.. this is a golden opportunity to catch her red-handed in a lie in front of her IC, so that right there and then, you can lay out the ultimatum of 100% truth, and proving it for as long as it takes to rebuild trust. So... there you've got her, with an important witness who will hopefully validate your demand for full honesty going forward. I'd do it. Why not?

I haven't finalized my decision to D her, just went thru the steps with the lawyer so we can file it at any time, I would be more than willing to try to fix things if she would actually try but I am not sure she can get past her own victim hood to see the writing on the wall. I guess I am not sure how long I should give her to make an effort ( I realize 6 weeks is probably too short of a time) but how long would be fair?

I started reading Healing infidelity, she immediately started reading it at the same time, well until it came to the harder parts of the book where full credit and most the work needs to be done by the WW spouse, she immediately stopped and said she did not like the way the book was headed, so you can see why I am stuck in this limbo right now with no clear way to go short of outright D (hard to just throw away 24 years, even though I do not know who that person was really, I so do not want to lose our farm I have put blood sweat and tears into this place)

She had also integrated this AP into every facet of our lives so there are almost none of the things we do normally (grocery store,shopping,me mowing our fields, her "close friends" even my morning chores feeding the livestock and such) these constant triggers have really been giving me a lot of trouble (anger mostly, lots of disgust as well) but the one area where the IC I have been talking to has helped is in the anger management area I am not resisting the triggers but I do not focus on them as much now and it has made life somewhat more bearable for me for the time, so long story short how much time do I give her to try to see the error of her ways before I say enough is enough?

[This message edited by Site at 3:57 PM, Sunday, December 12th]

I am of the camp that divorce should be the default option for cheating. I tried to R for 7 months after Dday#2, but it turned out that I was the one doing all the work. By filing for divorce right away, you shift the power dynamic right away and a WS is more likely to pull their head out of their ass sooner. You can stop or slow the proceedings anytime, but since you filed, you control the script. And if the WS cannot manage to get their head on straight in that time, you are no further behind.

After I filed and served my STBXWW, she tried to pull some shit with me, acting sexy and telling me how she missed intimacy, etc. Little did she realize that I found her as appealing as a piece of maggoty flesh. The woman I had literally adored, now turned my stomach. Even the smell of her was sickening.

Try reading Cheating in a Nutshell. It takes a very hard, and in my opinion, realistic look at infidelity, specifically focusing on the betrayed partner. The likelihood that a marriage survives is very low, let alone becomes better. Unfortunately, that's the reality of infidelity.

...how much time do I give her to try to see the error of her ways before I say enough is enough?

I think six months is typical. That said, JustSomeGuy has a good point in that many WS's don't get started trying until the chips are down. IOW, they see that we're walking away and THEN they try to catch up. It was exactly that way for me. I told my fWH on dday that I wanted a divorce, didn't care to hear his excuses or his reasoning. I was done. He could split the banking and I'd find us a lawyer. In the moment, he agreed that would be for the best, but after about a week or so, he was asking me for time to prove himself.

Ultimatums don't always go our way. So, it's important to figure out what you can live with. I wasn't employing a gambit or a trick. I really was DONE. It surprised me actually that my fWH responded the way he did.

@justsomeguy

I can relate to that feeling big time,she has tried this be close crap since she came home, but to be honest I would rather hump a cactus before her (zero interest). This disturbs me as she was very hard for me to resist pre AP/d-day and makes me wonder if I could ever be seriously interested in her ever again, I will pick up the book you recommended and read it, thank you for the
recommendation

@ChamomileTea

6 months sounds like a reasonable time, I very well may file before that as Justsomeguy suggested but will give it a few more months before trying to bring the divorce to an end

I asked her specifically today if she thought she could even get close to attempting what was in the healing infidelity book today, she would not answer so I suspect I am pissing in the wind.

By filing for divorce right away, you shift the power dynamic right away and a WS is more likely to pull their head out of their ass sooner.

Truth

And you are doing her a favor, actually. She’s got a foot on the boat and a foot on the pier. She’ll decide real quick what to do when you cast off.

…so I suspect I am pissing in the wind.

As long as you’re upwind of her…nothing lost.

Im so very sorry that you are in your current situation. Trust me, I know what you are going through.

As you move forward in deciding what you want, I would like to give you something to think about.

I have said numerous times, that a marriage is like a stool in that it rely on three pillars. Without these three, marriage is not possible. Those 3 pillars in a good marriage are

RESPECT

LOVE

TRUST

Do you really think she respects you? After what she did????

I highly doubt it!!! Does she feel remorse for what she has done to you or does she feel bad she got caught? She is is self-preservation mode to hold on to her life and lifestyle with you. And do you think she respects that man that is in front of her with all your self doubt? Let’s be honest, the longer you allow her to stick around, the less she will actually respect you!!!!

Love... could someone that truly loves you cheat on you in the first place? Could someone that loves you put you through this level of torture??? If she loved you at this point, wouldn’t it be better, less selfish of her to say to you that even though she loves you and has done the worst thing a wife can do to her husband, she no longer deserves you, and you should find a woman that is worthy of your love, and therefore, she will do the selfless thing by agreeing to divorce so that you can find a loving woman that worthy of your love. But no. She would not Ever even think of doing that!!! I believe any tears are NOT for the pain that she has caused you, but for her!!! She is crying for fear that what she is in danger of losing.

Trust.... can you say that you trust her or will ever trust her again? Of course not. Every time she is 5 to 10 minutes late, the vision of her naked and in the arms of another lover pops into your head. Because of how she planned to meet her boyfriend/lover, you will be having those thoughts every time you walk out of your home.

Also, think of this...

Years from now, what will she truly think about her boyfriend/lover? Will she have fond memories of taking walks with him with her hand in his?

If you ever kiss her again or have sex with her, if she closes her eyes, will she be fantasying about her time with him and how he used to make her feel when she was under him?

But the big question you need to ask yourself is WHY?? Why would you give a single second to pull her head out of her @$$ and strat thinking straight????
Why isn’t cheating a dealbreaker for you?

Stop forcing yourself to live in the Hell known as limbo in the HOPE that she sees what she has truly done and that it is 100% HER FAULT!!!

Tell everyone what she has done. Hiding her secret only helps her and hurts you. Tell family and friends everything for 2 reasons.

First, Don’t let her change the story or rewrite the history of your marriage.

Second, you are going to need those family and friends to lean on during the upcoming time. And remember they want to be there for you! Let them be there for you. ASK them to be there for you.

I wish you nothing but the best of luck.

Don’t let fear of the unknown paralyze you.

Do what you feel you must do.

There is nothing wrong with her cheating being a dealbreaker for you.

Good luck, Stay strong, and take care of yourself

And do what you must to be able to look the man in the mirror in the eye every day.

Translation: file immediately and move your life in a much better direction

how much time do I give her to try to see the error of her ways before I say enough is enough?

Zero

By filing for divorce right away, you shift the power dynamic right away and a WS is more likely to pull their head out of their ass sooner. You can stop or slow the proceedings anytime, but since you filed, you control the script. And if the WS cannot manage to get their head on straight in that time, you are no further behind.

Read this over again, and again, and again. It covers all of the bases.

I would rather hump a cactus before her (zero interest).

Excellent

The power you need now is the power comes from within you. I don't see how any tactic or strategy gives anyone power that can't be met by a potentially greater counter-threat. Focusing on reaching your goals in your way gives you the best chance of succeeding.

I see decision-making as a function of head (facts, reasoning), heart (desire), and gut (probabilities?). The best decisions, IMO, come when all 3 are aligned and in favor of the same choice.

You've built up a lot of bonds in your long-term relationship; breaking that up is not easy, and it makes sense that it will take time for your head, heart, and gut (or however you view decision-making) to come into alignment. Six months is a good guess on how long it will take, but so does your comment that you might decide sooner than that. It may take longer, too.

My reco is to have faith in yourself to figure out how long you want to take to make your decision and how long you'll give your W to get real.

I'm really glad to read that you are recovering from your illness. The stress of dealing with d-day is insult added to injury. I'm really sorry about that.

Your health comes first. If that means taking less or more time to make your decision or making a decision that is unusual, so be it.