SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My WH had almost a 6 months online affair with an old college friend which was very intense, after an online reunion . She lives thousand miles away from us.

After I found out about their sweet chats, he finally confessed about the FaceTime sex last August .. and my world just fell apart.

It was daily chats from morning till bed time and they did FaceTime daily as well, included twice a week FaceTime sex .

For me , knowing their intense online sex was excruciatingly painful but I wonder, what is the category of FaceTime sex. WH and I disagree about it, he considered it more like an EA since there was no touching involved. However, FaceTime image is so clear, close up and vivid, it could be very intimate . He still reached orgasm and I consider their affair as PA. He recently admitted , the sex act was more PA than EA.

I consider his FaceTime sex to be much more personal and intimate than just watching porn or doing it with a casual stranger . He did it with his AP, where intimacy and feelings were involved . The EA is just as devastating to me as PA and combined , it is a blow to my heart .

I also wonder if almost a 6 months relationship can be considered as a long term affair ? I have another disagreement here with my WH . I consider their A to be the beginning of an LTA if I did not find out . The intention to continue was there. He is more realistic about it and still considers it as a short term fling , trying to minimize it I guess . Mars vs Venus.

I am feeling as of next to my parents passing , my WH’s infidelity is one of my darkest time . It’s been 7 months past but I am still trying to heal and still not able to focus on R. Is this normal ?

[This message edited by Lostwings at 4:10 AM, Friday, March 11th]

He is minimizing. Anything that says, "At least it wasn't..." is bullshit minimization.

Full stop. No minimizing. Answering this question doesn't help deal with the pain you are feeling. That he could have betrayed you worse doesn't make you feel better in any way. It's like stabbing you in the back and him saying "At least I didn't do it twice, at least it wasn't a bigger knife, at least it wasn't serrated, at least it wasn't poisoned."

It's all unacceptable minimization bullshit that you shouldn't waste your time arguing about. Just call it out (minimization is banned behavior for my fWW). She then apologizes, and we try to steer back to whatever the topic is that actually needs to be addressed. Maybe it's my pain, maybe it's some specific thought process of hers I'm trying to understand.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 8:08 PM, Thursday, March 10th]

Once the genitals become part of the A, the BS about "just" being EA goes out the window. He is minimizing. If a WS will not own the whole truth, the ugly truth, the frustrating truth, the possibly damaging truth, then you do not have a former wayward, you have a still in the A mindset broken partner, who is a bad candidate for remorse, empathy, and trust.

Video sex might include elements of EA, but it is not only an EA. In the end, EA/PA, it is all the same in terms of being broken and untrustworthy and the trauma it shoves down the BS throat. Ask someone who was a BS of "just" an EA and you will hear great pain similar to those having dealt with PA.

The WS has to own it all - EA vs PA it is all the same pain - show remorse, offer empathy.....or it will be false R until they do.

I don't think this is a Men are from Mars - Women are from Venus thing, it is cheater vs betrayed thing (of which cheaters of either gender act the same when caught). It is a cheater trying to get you to see it through their manipulating, rug sweeping, revisionist cheater brain rather than through your rational, reasonable, it is what it looks like brain.

Don't fall for it. It is a huge betrayal and a reason to have serious trust questions. If your WH is not willing to own that it is a big deal and is not willing to address the serious boundary crossing, he is not likely R material yet.

It certainly is just as damaging as "in person" sex

Betrayal is betrayal
It hurts the same whether it was EA or PA
It doesn’t matter what he calls it
It still devastated you and destroyed your trust in him
He needs to stop minimizing and start owning the consequences of his actions
Unless he puts in 110% work into earning your trust and helping you heal, R will not be successful. This is not something you can rationalize.

I agree with you on both counts—FaceTime sex is sex; it’s a sexual affair, and it’s intimate in conjunction with an emotional affair. And I feel the same way about my husband’s five month affair—He doesn’t really see it as a long-term affair, and he says that he was intent on getting out of it, but there was no exit plan in place, and even after I discovered some things and confronted him, he was lying to me, gaslighting me, and continuing the affair. I feel like it would’ve gone on indefinitely if I hadn’t found undeniable proof, and I think viewing an interrupted affair like that as the start of a long term affair is at least in the realm of reasonable. He has come around to that way of seeing it, even though he doesn’t see it as the start of a long-term affair the same way I do.

And I do think it’s normal to feel the level of devastation that you do. I felt/feel that way, at least.

[This message edited by Grieving at 10:19 PM, Thursday, March 10th]

LW,

A virtual affair is often very intense because the object of desire remains perfect and there is never the opportunity for fights that occur with in person affairs. It's like a fantasy with mutual masturbation thrown in.

He is minimizing and omitting have him write out a detailed timeline and give him the gift of a polygraph.

ThisOisOFine,

At least I didn't do it twice, at least it wasn't a bigger knife, at least it wasn't serrated, at least it wasn't poisoned."

This is really true in a sense that he totally minimized the pain I am feeling now .
"I did not touch and I did not smell her " was the lamest excuse I got from him .
He was trying to let me know how he felt about the on line affair, was not equal as if he had a real "in person"( quote from 1st wife) sex but he admits that the pain I suffer may be equal regardless .
He still needs to be fully remorseful but he is trying to let me know that he is committed to do R . We will see .

DIFM,
Firstly , I apologize for my grammar . I am not a native speaker.

Once the genitals become part of the A, the BS about "just" being EA goes out the window. He is minimizing.

You really nailed it! It took me a long time to explain to my WH how I felt about his video sex but you explain it in one sentence !
And yes, he is still reluctant and somewhat defensive in answering some of my questions which he feels too uncomfortable or ugly but he is slowly improving.
I do feel that the pain of knowing their "love" chat is equal to the revelation of their sex game and their PA becomes more painful to me, knowing that they also had an EA.
It was so painful when he admitted that he was addicted to their sex and her chat but even though it is still very hard to forgive, I need to come to term eventually . After 42 years of marriage , I am not giving up that easily.

DIFM,

Don't fall for it. It is a huge betrayal and a reason to have serious trust questions. If your WH is not willing to own that it is a big deal and is not willing to address the serious boundary crossing, he is not likely R material yet.

Thank you ! I’ll take your advice.

The 1stWife,

It certainly is just as damaging as "in person" sex

Yes, I feel the same way . Thank you .

Maybe. The bottom line, he lied to you, sneaked around, and shared personal marital 'things' with someone outside the marriage. Wondering over the details misses the point. He behaved like a lying skeezy slut,and you were betrayed by him. There is something just as disturbing, even worse in one odd way, about this virtual stuff. Uggh. So sorry you have to sort through this.

LostWings, whatever your WS would not do in your presence with others (unless there is some other pathology), it's a definite boundary-crossing.

Strength to you and steady healing!

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 2:53 PM, Friday, March 11th]

Grieving,

I agree with you on both counts—FaceTime sex is sex; it’s a sexual affair, and it’s intimate in conjunction with an emotional affair

Reading your post was like reading my life’s darkest time .

I think viewing an interrupted affair like that as the start of a long term affair is at least in the realm of reasonable.

Sometimes I feel like I can deal with it better if he had a one time fling and called it off … my wishful thinking. But almost 6 months and this was because I found out her texting !! He was very careful but she was not!! He had so many days to ponder and decided to call it quits but he didn’t and this hurt me the most , the unwillingness to end the affair. He ended the affair because I asked him to.
He was also very good in sneaking behind my back and looking back, my biggest mistake was trusting him too much because I did not recognize the telltale signs of an unfaithful partner . I trusted him wholeheartedly.
He apologizes every time I cry, experiencing triggers or feeling down but he still tries to avoid questions .
It has been 7 months after dday2 and he is getting better in answering questions.
He tells me he loves me all the time and I hope I can accept that in the near future, without being cynical or untrusting . He maintains his NC and I am hoping that this is a good sign, I still need to trust the guy.
I am like you , a romantic, believing that marriage is just him and I, no one else, through out the ups and downs in life . Love conquers all ! But the moment someone gave him attention and affection , the commitment to our love and each other just jump out the window. He admitted that he liked the attention and affection she gave him and her affections made him feeling like a college student again . I am glad he did not refer it to being a teenager again !!
Thank you for your support and I am hoping that we BS can all survive this nightmare .
At least I know that I am not overdramatizing his FaceTime sex and his emotional attachment to the MOW.

Sometimes I feel like I can deal with it better if he had a one time fling and called it off … my wishful thinking. But almost 6 months and this was because I found out her texting !!

I think dealing with your betrayal, your pain, your reality is most important. You thinking you could deal with less pain more easily is almost the flip side of him saying "Well at least I didn't cause you more pain". This type of thinking will not really get you anywhere.

He maintains his NC and I am hoping that this is a good sign, I still need to trust the guy.

Around here (and many places) the phrase is "trust but verify". I put it a little more simply. You don't have to trust him. He doesn't deserve your trust. He has to prove with his actions that he can be trusted, which means you verifying NC to the extent practical through means like complete electronic transparency (access to phone, all accounts, all passwords, GPS tracking).

Maybe, after many many repeated instances of him doing like he said he would, you can trust him more. Wholehearted/blind trust is gone forever.

Anna 123,
It is true , it must be sleazy and disturbing . I saw how clear, vivid and close up a FaceTime video looks like and I almost threw up when he told me what he did with the MOW. I still can not believe my WH did that ! The one that vowed to abide with me, to love and to cherish, tell death do us part. Oh well.

TisP

Strength to you and steady healing!

Thank you and same to you!

DG,

Unless he puts in 110% work into earning your trust and helping you heal, R will not be successful. This is not something you can rationalize.

I believe other than NC, he is still only giving himself around 70% effort and remorse towards my healing. My gut feeling tells me that he is NOT remorseful enough and not giving all he has to help me heal and treating our R as his first priority …. True, life and his business go on but he may be emotionally retarded, his traits that I just recognized after the A and after marrying him for 42 years .
Did an affair changed someone that much ? Or did I only see the illusion of him during all this time ? This is what I am trying to find out and I may never get the answers.
I still need to admit that he has been kind, attentive and loving towards me after the A and I can not take this away from him. We experienced HB lately. He used to be very distant and asexual during the A.

Survrus,

A virtual affair is often very intense because the object of desire remains perfect and there is never the opportunity for fights that occur with in person affairs. It's like a fantasy with mutual masturbation thrown in.

I totally agree with you. I knew her casually and I do not think she is more physically attractive than me . My husband admitted the danger of an online A where the AP seems to be better than in person . All the loving cheesy words she said may not be uttered in real life and not just the sex , he was hooked on the way she chatted to him .