SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OP,

Don't bother with Medieval.

Put him or her on ignore.

And I hope a mod will do something since you don't want her/him posting on your thread but he/she is still doing it.

As you know OP, you are not responsible for your cheating lying wife to get help.

She intentionally chose to cheat, even knowing what your mother did to your father.

Your wife may intentionally choose to get herself help if she wants to, the same way she intentionally chose to cheat.

Medieval,

OP's wife KNEW what her husband's mother did to his father, she knew the score and the deal about all of that.

OP's wife KNEW her husband was religious and what his take was on infidelity and that was ON TOP of what his mother did to his father.

OP's wife KNEW this BEFORE she intentionally chose and decided to cheat.

Some cheaters don't think their partner will leave them and some partners don't.

But some cheaters do know that their partner will leave them.

OP's wife KNEW what his mother had done and what her husband's take was on it. OP's wife KNEW what his religious views were on cheating and again that was on top of knowing what his mother had done to his father.

And while KNOWING all of that, she still made the decision to cheat.

She KNEW he was going to leave her when she chose to cheat yet now she wants to work on this and try to reconcile?

I call BS on that. That lady KNEW she was ending their marriage when she chose to cheat.

Not even a pet rock could be that dense and OP's wife isn't dumb, just a typical selfish cake eater.

Just because she intentionally chose to throw her morals away doesn't mean her husband has to do the same for her.

And OP can "want" his wife to get help, but he doesn't have to do it for her. I'm sure he wants her to get help, but she's a grown a lady who is more than capable of getting help if she wants to.

So far, she's CHOSEN not to get help for herself even KNOWING her husband wants her to.

Hmm... sounds familiar doesn't it?

She knew her husband didn't want her to cheat, but she still chose to cheat.

She knows her husband wants her to go to counseling but she's still choosing NOT to.

He can't make her go to counseling. He can't physically drag her into the car and drag her into a therapists office.

He's told her to go to counseling.

This lady can't possibly want to reconcile when she chose to cheat knowing all she knew about what her husbands mother did to his father.

This lady wasn't drugged or raped. She had an emotional affair for months, at least, with this guy and then it turned physical.

Why do I add this?

It's not like she met some guy and then an hour later they were being physical with each other and she didn't know how that happened.

No, over months and months she chose over and over to keep conversing with this man and she knew where things were heading and yep, they got there.

She made tons of choices over and over and over to do this. She wasn't forced to do this, she WANTED to do this. She had so much time to get off that highway, to take an exit ramp and get off the road she was on but she did NOT want to get off of that road. She WANTED to get to her destination with that man, which was being physical with him and she did.

Why should or would OP WANT to be with a lady like that?

A tad about me Medieval.

I'm 22. My mom cheated on my dad long ago, they've been divorced over 16 years now. My dad has not talked to my mom or seen my mom or even heard her voice since 2013 and I support him completely on this. They live about 1,000 miles away from each other. My mom doesn't even have or know my dad's cellphone number.

I'm out of college now and since I finished high school, I've not been to my mom's place for any major holiday, I choose to spend with my father.

My mom chose all of this, we didn't. She gets to own 100% of this.

My mom is on her 3rd marriage (surprise surprise) and when she got married for the 3rd time, in 2019, I was invited but I didn't go and my mom had the gall to be upset with me. I told her I might go to her 4th wedding and that pissed her off even more.

OP,

I'm completely with you. Your wife has intentionally and knowingly chosen the path she's on.

Medieval,

You talk about OP wanting his wife to get help but not doing anything for her.

With that logic then you must surely agree with the following:

Reconciliation requires BOTH partners for it to happen. Just because OP's wife wants to reconcile, that doesn't mean her husband has to want to and he doesn't.

So, just because she wants to reconcile doesn't mean it's going to happen.

OP's wife can't reconcile the two of them on her own, without her husband wanting to reconcile and he doesn't want that.

OP's wife KNOWS this so why isn't she doing and trying to give him what he wants (which is NOT to reconcile)? The way you think he needs to help her?

She is the one who destroyed and nuked their marriage so she is the one who needs to be doing things to help her husband heal.

She intentionally chose to put him through hell, to stab a knife into his heart and back and now you think OP needs to help her?

She needs to be helping him from what she DID to him.

This is 100% on her.

MODS check your email.

Thank you.

Please stay on topic and post respectfully.

What EmergingLady said!

medieval, you have a pm.

Ditto EL

Something isnt sitting right here. Nothere basically had a tattoo on his forehead that said "I will divorce you if you cheat". She did it anyway and is now raising all hell to stop the divorce.

This sounds like a case of sabotage with instant regret.

Did she ever say why she confessed?

Did she ever say why she confessed?

If I had to guess, she falsely believed he loved her enough to get past this. Think of the ego kibble she'd get from that. It's either that or self destructive tendencies which OP never mentioned.

I don't get those pushing for R. It takes both. OP's been clear from the start that this is a deal breaker. His STBX would have to be stupid to think otherwise with his history that she knew. Yet she did it. I do think his anger over what his mother and her have done seems to be toxic to his soul but that doesn't mean I'd suggest that he consider R. Quite the opposite. He should be moving as quickly as possible to D and going as NC with her as possible so he can properly heal.

Does she understand how you feel?
She is losing everything and you want to burn it all down. Didn't she see this coming or has she been entirely reliant on you and this is like a dog getting kicked. She is confused and hurt, but knows she needs you still so she shivers in fear while waiting for food. Do you get where I am coming from?
If she is willing to write you letters and she is doing everything she can for you. You mentioned you wanted divorce, I remember that part.
So, have you really talked through how you feel with her?
You mentioned caring about her and should realize she will be in your life until it ends. So, what does she know of your feelings? I wonder if she knows more or less of how you are dealing with things. I ask because you seem like the kind of guy who gunny sacks his emotions. You feel being stoic has merit and value. Putting your emotions on others is a burden and you expect you will have to lighten someone else's burden one day if they lower yours. Emotions aren't so transactional.
Did you think about something like having your WW write in a letter how she thinks you felt before the affair and afterward from your point of view?
It could help the 2 of you get to understanding each other and post divorce, you will know you will help each other and be present.
I want to ask 1 last question. After you divorce, are you going to let go of your anger toward her? It is why I was talking about anger and sadness before. You should try to see what your life will be like post divorce. The good and the bad. Lots of people have some rough starts right after the split. It works better if it is a slow good bye, which is why lots of states have/had mandatory separation timeframes. There was a couple on here that had the couple renting an apartment and they would take time rotating who slept in the apartment as a single person versus who had the kids. Their kids were younger, but it sounded like it worked out really well.
Just hoping to make the separation successful.

she voluntarily left the marriage. picture, video, dating did everything willingly and had no regrets.

The woman planned everything, took AP to her office, it was what she wanted, but it did not develop as she wanted.

AP's sexuality may be a problem, sexual orientation, client, job expectations, blackmail or encouragement to participate in multiple relationships. a picture, video was taken in the office and the fear of sharing it,

As soon as she came to her senses, she was afraid of something and had to reveal everything.

I hope I'm exaggerating.

Wow, feel aweful for your dad.

[This message edited by Decorum at 3:38 PM, Saturday, April 23rd]

Hello Nothere,

I hope things are going as well as may be expected considering the circumstances you find yourself in.

I know you said it was disappointing that friends and family are telling you to reconcile.

If I were in your shoes, that would be beyond frustrating to me, it would be maddening. I'd want to yell and lash out.

I'd want to tell them so many things to try and get them to understand, to see things from my point of view and to get them to change their minds.

But that rarely works and many times it backfires.

OP,

Exercise, talk walks, journal, write letters to yourself, write letters to these people (but don't send them to them).

My point is for you to vent and release things you have inside of yourself.

Your anger is justified, but it has to come out in some form or fashion.

None of this is your fault.

You will still be you, yourself once this is behind you and I want you to be the best version of yourself you can be after this. Part of that happening will be about how you handle things now.

Yes, part of this will always be with you going forward. Use it to fuel yourself going forward.

Counseling, for just yourself, might be good too, as long as the counselor is good. Not all counselors are of course, but there are many wonderful ones out there.

Spend time with your daughter and son. Go hiking, camping, biking, go to events with them.

I noticed you made a comment on another post saying that you love "love", being in love, marriage, a relationship and that will happen again for you, in time. Just do the work you need to between now and then so you're able to leave the worst of this behind and not carry this forward into your next relationship whenever that happens.

You already know this is a process and that it takes time. There are stages to it.

Many months from now, a year from now and even longer than that, you will look back and know that you were strong, stronger than you realized.

You were dealt a shitt y hand and your dream was taken away from you.

You know, as a religious man, about the Book of Job and all the issues he was faced with and had to deal with and he persevered.

This is a journey you don't want to be on, one you never thought you'd be on, but the higher power you believe in will use it for good, even though you're not able to see that right now. You have to take that on faith, but you already know how to do that being that you're a man of faith.

Thinking of you OP.

Take care.

Hi again. Had a situation a few days ago I don't know what the fuck to do. Came home early to see my kids well I don't know how to describe it. Just completely berating and screaming at their mom. I don't mean then just being upset with her it was awful. I could have smacked the shit out of them both right there. Told them if they ever talked to her about this again everything they have would be on the lawn. I knew I should've done something sooner about my kids. She just sat there sobbing and I just hugged her for a long time (yeah yeah I know) I'm so tired I don't know what I want I have this genetic heart condition and I'm going to be dead in my early 50s anyways. If I could go to sleep and never wake up I would. I don't know I just don't know what I want.

I am sorry you are hurting. Don't be so hard on yourself. You do not have to allow your kids to berate anyone, no matter who they are. It also doesn't mean you have to pity her or feel sorry for her. She did this. But it is absolutely appropriate that they are not allowed to act that way towards her or anyone.

However, they are allowed to feel how they feel about what she did and it is HER JOB to fix the relationship. I would caution you against forcing them to have any kind of relationship with her that they don't want. But you can be clear about acceptable behavior just as you would as a parent in any situation.

Clearly you are a decent person capable of empathy. But you can support her as the mother of your children and set clear boundaries about their behavior without having a romantic relationship with your wife. I am sure it feels very confusing but it is all normal.

Nothere,

I'm sorry for this and everything.

Also, I can't remember if you said your son and daughter were in counseling, if not, now is the time.

My dad didn't take us (my two brothers and me) for a few years because we were only 4, 6 and 9 when he divorced my cheating mother. We weren't yelling at her or berating her at that age of course.

About 3 years later, he put us in counseling though and it was really good.

Even with counseling, when I was in high school I reached the anger stage with my mother as I was a bit older then and better able to comprehend what she knowingly and intentionally chose to do to all of us and it didn't sit well with me, at all, and it still doesn't.

I know your children are older than that (than 4, 6 and 9 like we were), high school age since college and the move to California is soon. At their current age and with how they are both feeling and what their mother has done to them, to their family, to you as their father warrants their anger, but they need to vent that anger in better ways.

Obviously they aren't adults yet and all of this has rightfully thrown them for a loop, shattered their family lives and they really need to be talking to a good therapist to help them work through all of this.

One day at a time OP, one day at a time.

I'm sorry for what your children and you are going through and what you all have to endure. Get counseling for them, do activities with them, get out and do things, talk with them about things (not necessarily the family issues, unless they want to) mostly I mean talk to them about school, college, their friends etc.

I understand that "normal" living is so difficult right now, but doing a few things that are normal each day will help you all heal and move on.

One day at a time.

Sorry OP, take care. All the best to your two children and to you.

The kids need to be in therapy, to process this betrayal,and help them with their anger.

Now..you need to understand she betrayed them,every bit as much as she betrayed you. Telling them they aren't allowed to express their anger and hurt is a recipe for disaster. You are basically giving them the WS speech of.."shut up and get over it." You are telling them to rugsweep,and play pretend. That's so incredibly damaging to their mental health.

They have a right to be mad. They have a right to tell her how they feel. They need therapy to learn how to do so,without being cruel.

Your wife has taken a shit on them. Insisting they must love and respect someone who didn't show respect for their family is going to to get you,what you got with your mother. They will NC you.

How would you have felt if your dad forced you to have a relationship with your mom,and never talk to her about the pain she caused?

That wouldn't have gone over well.

Now I'm not saying it's ok for them to be cruel. Or call names. Or even raise their voice. But they NEED to be able to tell her how they feel. And your wife needs to be adult enough to understand why they are so upset,and understand their anger and pain is a poison in their minds,and they must get it out. She needs to be adult enough to hear them out,and do the work it will take to repair the relationships with her children.

I'm sure you will get some responses that are so worried about your wife,and what she can endure. That's fine. My concern is for your children,and their need to be respected and heard. My concern is for the victims,not the ADULT who has hurt her children.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:26 AM, Friday, April 29th]

That must have been very difficult. I think you did two things right: one, you put a stop to your kids' over the top behavior and two, you showed empathy for your WW. The first is important because as father, you set the tone for what is acceptable and what is not. The second is important because that's a very human, very Christian response. And modelling it for your kids, despite your own pain, is admirable.

I’m sorry this happened- this snd everything. It’s ok to be conflicted on how you feel about your WW. You had a great M and family snd she really fucked it all up, and for what.

Your kids are expressing this to her in their own way, just as you expressed your anger and disappointment in your own way. Neither are wrong.

Two things I would recommend: WRT your kids, I would sit them down and let them know it’s perfectly OK to tell their mom what’s on their minds, as long as they do it in a civil manner- she is still their mother. And, it might be very helpful after that to have a family discussion about this. Whether you D or not, you’re still a family at present, albeit a very broken one at the moment.

WRT your feelings, you moved directly to D. This is the way that you were able to express your anger to your WW, and she certainly understands this. In doing so, you reclaimed some of your agency, which she selfishly appropriated by cheating.

Because D is already in process, you’re now in a place where you can figure out which way to go. You can always pull D at some point in the future, or you can proceed full speed ahead. All of this is under your control. Your WW gets this.

Thus, I recommend that you tell your WW that she must enter IC immediately, and what comes out of her IC becomes transparent to you. The carrot is that you’ll asses and reassess her progress over time. However the D process continues full speed.

If after a period of time you become satisfied bit by bit with her progress in IC, then you might consider MC. And, if MC helps you and the M heal, then you will take thing step by step from there. with absolutely no promises or guarantees.

However, all of this hinges on your WW starting IC immediately.

Honestly I think my wife is at her limit and I should probably call someone. What my kids said to her was so far over the line. They were literally standing above her looking down and screaming at her. Talked to them today and said they can talk about it but they can't scream at her or call her names. To be clear they've only ever saw me be dismissive, smart, etc with her. They said they understood but I'm not sure they really get it. Maybe I'm just a little bitch but I still love my wife very much and I can see how she acts now. This consumes her thoughts and she looks through everything so hard she probably sees the back of her head. I talked to her a lot when and after it happened but I don't want to talk about it right now.

I just can't understand how she could do it knowing what happened with my mother. Honestly I probably would have reconciled with her because what she did wasn't that* bad in my opinion. If she did anything else though or I caught her I wouldn't. I don't know, maybe it's just me lying to myself about it.

I’m not sure if I understand you correctly. Did you say that you would now consider exploring R with your WW?

If yes, there are a lot of people on this thread who would be most happy to help you work towards this goal.

However, because you came out of the gate so strong with D, and wasn’t about to hear any thoughts about potentially exploring R (which was totally fine), I think you should be very clear at this point whether you would consider R. If yes, I guarantee you’ll get lots of help here moving forward.

What can you live with?

Is cheating a deal breaker for you? If it is, no amount of patience, time or effort will change the end result.

Broken trust is always going to be just that - broken. You will always have doubts about her and what she is doing and with whom.

Reconciliation means damaging your relationship with your kids. Reconciliation is also a risk with no guarantees. She betrayed you once already. She can do so again. It is cliché to say once a cheater always a cheater. People can change but more often than not the cliché is proven true.

Complete the divorce but remain cordial with her. You can allow her to remain in your life just not as your wife. You can tell the kids she will always be their mother and that regardless of what she has done she gave them life and raised them. The bare minimum should be that they respect her for that. They don't have to approve or accept her poor choices.

I just can't understand how she could do it knowing what happened with my mother.

You aren't as selfish as she is that is why you do not understand. Poor judgement and behavior can be rationalized away. Your experience with your mother and father has shaped you and set you apart from your wife. You have had an appreciation of the damage done by adultery that few can because you suffered through it as it destroyed your family. Now your wife has an excellent appreciation of the damage done by adultery. Up to a point. Your wife remains selfish because she has yet to accept that she cannot undo what she has done. That there is no going back. That she cannot avoid the consequences of her poor choices.

Everything has a price. What price are you willing to pay? Are you willing to reconcile at the expense of your relationship with your children? At the risk that she will betray you again at some point in the future? Both?