SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is my first post but I’ve read so much on this site and am thankful to have found it as the last 2 1/2 months have been a shit storm.
My story is going to mirror several others on here shockingly. So caught my WH cheating with a co-worker. We just had our 20 year anniversary and are both late 40s. Went through the whole gaslighting/stonewalling/denial with him, it took him over a month to finally come clean to me. More details have been trickling out, as we talk about it and as I ask him more questions. I believe I caught this early enough to stop it from getting too real and before deep emotional feelings developed. I did kick him out of the house and while he was in a fog or what seemed to me a different planet, he signed a year lease that first week for a house about a mile away. He says he didn’t know where to go and was afraid he wouldn’t see the kids. Our kids are teens. I have since told him that they are old enough to make that decision on their own and I have no interest in them not having their dad in their lives.
Fast forward two months later and he is back to the man I know. I know he cheated, but I believe this was a wake up call for him. He’s stopped drinking, wants to be with me and the kids (3 teenagers) as much as possible and is willing to be completely transparent with all email/computer/social media etc. The problem is this woman still works with and for him and they only have contact via email. He has told her that he made a mistake and is dedicated to me and the kids. He’s showed me the one or two texts from her regarding work issues but I told him that until she leaves and there is NC, we can continue our current status but nothing more. No sex, no trial moving back in (he would be down in the basement), and nothing deeper. Even if they don’t have personal contact now, I’m not comfortable with the situation. Without knowing what the 180 was, I was already doing it. Did my own thing, started some projects around the house, and am overall happy and feeling a little better each day. I haven’t felt like going out as much, but mentally I feel better about things and accepting the possibility of our relationship going either way. I have told him I am unsure of moving forward with reconciliation because I don’t want him to go back to the way he was a few months ago after I let him back in.
So, if and when this woman leaves (he said it’s extremely uncomfortable and a high paying job that’s difficult to replace) I was thinking of having a post- nuptial drawn up by an attorney basically protecting me and awarding me all assets if he cheats again. He said to get it done and he’ll sign. I know this sounds materialistic (and it sounds like that because it is 😃) but I’m at the point where I really don’t want to start over or give up the lifestyle I have and in a sense this protects me. I won’t have to work and I’ll be fine. I’m not feeling any emotion toward him at all. This almost feels like a business transaction that I NEVER thought I would be ok with but I am now. Is this a normal feeling to have at this time? I know everyone is different and people respond/handle situations differently but I was madly in love with this man up until this happened. But it feels like he’s in the friend zone now for me and opposite for him. Has anyone felt like this and did it change over time? I want to have the same feelings I once had for him but sometimes I find myself even annoyed that he wants to be around me so much. Would love to hear others experience and if these feelings subside and regarding the post nup.

Get the post nup. I have one. I insisted on one to even consider R.

My post nup states should we D for any reason he is not entitled to my assets (joint or otherwise). This protects me in case I decided to D him years later even though he may not be cheating.

Your H is now willing to do anything to R or so it appears. Is he in counseling for just him? Many cheaters fear this but it might be something you want to insist upon.

You did the 180. Good for you. He’s out of the house. Good for you again!

Take your time. He may want to rush back home like nothing ever happened. I think that is a mistake. He needs to address his issues and come back home healed and with commitment to changing and being a better person.

If you take him back now, he’s still a broken person.

Hey there--- so sorry you are here and feeling the pain that so many of us have felt. The thing is there are no guarantees in marriage-- whether it has been fractured by infidelity or not. I always said that I needed to feel safe before I could move forward with reconciliation, and if this prenup is your way of feeling safe then so be it. I would definitely have difficulty knowing that there is some line of communication between them.. that makes it very challenging. Maybe it is time for your husband to find a new position somewhere... I know it is easier said than done.. I also would suggest counseling for him and the both of you. No rug sweeping.. addressing the problem head-on. I hope he continues to make the necessary changes needed. God Bless.

1) My understanding is that post-nups that are too one-sided get thrown out of court if one party fights the agreement.

2) I'm not so sure it's a bad thing to view your decision to R or not as a business transaction. My reco is to make your decision based on things like

what do you want? (Looks like you know some of that)
what do you think your WS will do about changing from cheater to good partner?
do you want to live the rest of your life with him if he does become a good partner?
do you and your WS agree on what your M will become?

It's very possible that your gut is telling you that you'll be happier after D than you will be after R. Under that and similar conditions, why R? If you'd rather be a free agent WRT relationships, it's OK to choose D.

Hi @Milehihunny so sorry you're having to deal with the aftermath of betrayal and the emotional roller coaster that comes with it. You're right in saying that people respond and handle situations differently and my guess is that you're dealing with this situation by protecting your heart with an emotional indifference to your H.

At any level that we begin to apply indifference we are also executing self-protection. By switching off our sensors and feelings and going into a state of indifference, we are going in protection mode. Same as during a surgery where you simply get an anesthetic, so you don’t feel the pain. Feeling numb prevents us from feeling hurt or vulnerable when someone is dealing with betrayal.

I read somewhere that the opposite of love is indifference and not hate. Hate has still lots of energy and engagement and emotion tied up in it since if we hate, we care, we are still vulnerable about it. Is it possible that it's much easier for you to focus on yourself for now, do your own thing and even take steps to protect yourself by having a post nuptial drawn up so you don't have to deal with what has happened.

I know I went through a variety of emotions when I was dealing with the pain of betrayal in my marriage ranging from anger, shock, disappointment, indifference all intertwined with memories and moments of the love that I shared with this person who had caused this betrayal. Some things I have learnt from my own experience is that our emotions are subject to change especially with time and changes in circumstances and that love and trust can be rebuilt.

Twenty years of marriage and 2 children is a huge investment for anyone but ultimately the decision to choose R is yours. I pray the near future brings you wisdom for the decisions you need to make and complete healing for your emotions.

Thank you all for your responses. I am going to get the post nup for sure if we get to a point where he moves back into the house. I have told him we can continue to work on things (which is what I want too) but no moving back in until the work situation changes. I don’t see OW leaving, it looks more like she’s being passive aggressive with the few texts that she has sent to him so that he’ll ask if she’s leaving or why she’s not selling.
Fof9303- I agree there are no guarantees with marriage. I want it to work but everyday he’s not living in the the same house is one more step separating us and our lives together. You start to feel comfortable being in your house without your spouse.
Sisoon- I think we are programmed to work on our marriage because of the vows we took and the years we’ve spent together building our lives, kids, etc. but when I read posts on this site, i feel like there are very few that are truly as happy in their marriage than they were before the infidelity. Am I wrong? This makes me skeptical of moving forward with reconciliation. With that and the living situation, I feel like the odds are against us. Why get caught in this cycle and worry about him doing it again? I don’t think he would, but I’m sure no one on this forum thought their spouse would continue. Not trying to be negative, but realistic. I would love to hear from people whose marriages are better than before the infidelity. And do you ever really trust your wayward 100%?

I asked a very similar question from another angle, perhaps helpful for you too:
https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/658498/cant-wrap-my-head-around-reconciliation/

i feel like there are very few that are truly as happy in their marriage than they were before the infidelity. Am I wrong? This makes me skeptical of moving forward with reconciliation.

I love numbers, but there are very few numbers, if any, about infidelity that I believe.

I think many people are pretty unhappy with their lives. If you don't work to control the parts of your life that you do control, I think you're bound to be unhappy - and I don't think we're trained to control what we really can control.

Are you wrong in your assertion? I don't know.

One number that has long stood out for me is from Shirley Glass - it's something like: 20% of her client couples who stated that they wanted R ended up splitting. That means 80% stayed together. Our MC/W's IC believes the 20% didn't do the work. (I'm sure our MC would say some of that 20% made healthy decisions to split, some unhealthy.) So I think a good IC can help R, when the couple is ready.

With that and the living situation, I feel like the odds are against us.

Without good statistics, we don't know the odds. Besides, do the odds matter? If you want to D, does it matter if 99% of couples who reconcile have great lives? If you want to R, and if both partners commit to doing the work, would it matter if 99% of R attempts fail?

I urge people to focus on what they want and will work for. I'm pretty well convinced that if both partners want to R and actually do the necessary work, they'll R. If they don't do the necessary work, R will fail.

But success lies in surviving and thriving, not in D or R. An I think the odds will be with you if you make thriving your goal.

Why get caught in this cycle and worry about him doing it again?

The only time that comes up for me is when posting in response to this type of question. I wanted R. I thought my W would do the work, We've R'ed.

Maybe she'll cheat again. If she does, I have faith in myself to recover. I can't control her. She has to make her own choices. I can't control many outcomes.

Maybe I'm still on SI because I CAN control what I post. I just can't control how my posts are taken, though....

Not trying to be negative, but realistic.

Screw realism, at first! At first, let yourself be free - what do you want? Why do you want it - to what extent are your reasons healthy? Unhealthy? Don't think of your probability of getting what you want - just think of what you want. After you know what you want is the time to think about what has to happen for you to get it.

I wanted R from the moment my W revealed her A - but I was pretty sure I was going to cut her off if she didn't do her work. Knowing what you want and why helps keep your head clear. It helps you monitor your progress and adjust as appropriate.

If you really do or don't want to R, the earlier you find out, the better. There's no shame in wanting D/R. There's no shame in taking time to figure out what you want.

First figure out what you want. Then get realistic.

I would love to hear from people whose marriages are better than before the infidelity. And do you ever really trust your wayward 100%?

IMO, our M got better and better as time progressed. The A stopped the progress and set us back to 1965, at least in some ways. The work we did after the A allowed us to catch up to where we had been and accelerate our getting better.

I trusted my W blindly. That was the error - no one is worthy of blind trust. I have 100% trust in both of us that we can ward off all the vulnerabilities to betrayal that we know about. I am a little bit afraid that some unknown vulnerability can bite one of us in our asses.

You can't control the outcome. You can control only yourself. Start with what you want.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 10:40 PM, Tuesday, October 18th]

How did you feel about your marriage before you found out he was cheating?

Did you feel loved, respected, and that your dynamics were generally healthy?

Or was he self-centered and entitled in a myriad of other ways?

Fast forward two months later and he is back to the man I know. I know he cheated, but I believe this was a wake up call for him. He’s stopped drinking, wants to be with me and the kids (3 teenagers) as much as possible and is willing to be completely transparent with all email/computer/social media etc.

It's doubtful that he is back to the man you know. He has seen the consequences of his actions and dislikes them enough that he is willing to change his behavior, at least as far as you can see and know. But he is a cheater now and unless the man you knew was a cheater there is still a lot you don't know. Is he in IC to understand how he could do something so cruel to his wife and family? Has he explained those reasons to you and convinced you that he understands them well enough that he won't do it again? Has he written out a complete timeline of his infidelity and answered all your questions?

You are right to insist on complete NC. NC is incompatible with a work associate arrangement. On top of everything else your WH has put his livelihood at risk by becoming sexually involved with a subordinate. Any attempt to get her to leave could very rightfully result in his own termination. He may have no option for NC other than to find a new job himself.

I’m not feeling any emotion toward him at all. This almost feels like a business transaction that I NEVER thought I would be ok with but I am now. Is this a normal feeling to have at this time?

This is a common experience. Your mind has been going a million miles a minute for months and you're emotionally exhausted. Read about the "Plain of Lethal Flatness" in the Healing Library. It can come and go as you're dealing with all of this.

but when I read posts on this site, i feel like there are very few that are truly as happy in their marriage than they were before the infidelity. Am I wrong? This makes me skeptical of moving forward with reconciliation. With that and the living situation, I feel like the odds are against us. Why get caught in this cycle and worry about him doing it again? I don’t think he would, but I’m sure no one on this forum thought their spouse would continue. Not trying to be negative, but realistic. I would love to hear from people whose marriages are better than before the infidelity. And do you ever really trust your wayward 100%?

It's hard to compare "the before time" with the after. Innocent notions like "100% trust" and "true love" are replaced by the fact that you can never really know anyone's heart but your own - and even that's not assured. Having been cursed with this knowledge you're stuck with it. Whether you stay or go, it's a fact of life.

Whether you can be happy again with your WH really depends on whether he is truly remorseful and willing to do the work to atone and whether you can reach forgiveness or at least acceptance. There is no simple formula to calculate that. For some, betrayal is a deal-breaker and others don't want to imagine a life without their partner.

It's still very early for you. Take your time to figure this out. But your happiness should be more than business transaction. Even if that seems acceptable now, I doubt that it will be long term.

Best wishes!

Sisoon, thank you for the well thought out response. I agree, you’re right in that it doesn’t matter what the stats are, it IS about what we want. And I know no one can be trusted implicitly. Even though I know living is probably not the best for reconciliation, it my case, I’m glad in that it’s given me space and freedom to really think about my life without him in it.
BellaLee- that helps to hear that my feelings are normal. I know that a huge part in my lack of feelings is a barrier that I have unconsciously put up. I know he’s hurting too and I know he feels remorseful for what he’s done. I don’t know if he’s willing to put in the work. I think he’s convinced himself that this was a drunk mistake (although they were planned work trips together).
Bluerthanblue- our marriage was great (or so I thought) before all of this. We had our ups and downs like any other marriage but I really think his messing around came from his feeling entitled due to his position in his company and opportunity. He let his guard down and put himself in positions he swore he would never do. I knew him way before he was successful so I look at him differently and as a person, not the same way people look at him at work. I think this has been Hell for both of us. Im devastated and in shock that he would risk losing me, his family, his job, his friends etc. we have a great network of friends that neither of us have seen throughout this experience because they are more "couple" friends and if we do reconcile, don’t want things to be uncomfortable. I keep telling him, she must’ve had fireworks coming out of her ****** because she’s not that great but he was willing to put everything on the line for her piece of ***.
She is still working for him and I went through his phone today and all the email exchanges are work only. And there are more than with other people because I would rather they communicate that way than over the phone. It is all so jacked up. I know none of us ever thought we’d be in this position and we are those people that would look at our friends dealing with this crap and look at each other and say, "thank God, that’s not us." And here we are.

It's ok if this is a deal breaker. It's ok if you don't want to reconcile. He is not owed reconciliation. No cheater is. If you aren't feeling it, that's 100% ok.

Sisoon,

A very thorough and fair assessment of D and R.
Thank you for still being here .
We the ones that are lost , a bit lost and still need guidance are very appreciative of the seasoned old timers, BS or WS, that give us good insights, giving us courage to keep working on the biggest trauma we experienced in our lives .

Milehehunny,
Pls take good care of yourself first .

It is not easy to reconcile because I am still working on it my self and I know how you feel. My WS is starting to do the work but it seems to be not enough for me yet. The anger is still there .
Feeling indifference is probably better than this anger i still carry, I am still waiting for his apology letter in writing , which he promised to give me in November , the anniversary of the affair season .

Your happiness is foremost . Hugs .

Our situations are very similar. I had been married 20 years when I caught my husband in an affair with a coworker. He lied, denied, and gaslighted me for a month before I found incontrovertible proof. Then he flipped (mostly) to "I’ll do anything to save this marriage" mode. We’re in our 40s with two teenagers.

He still works with the coworker, in the same department.

I kind of wish the same flipping of the switch had occurred for me emotionally that you describe. Instead my immediate gut instinct was to cling to him and the marriage as tightly as possible. We had 6 months of hysterical bonding, and it’s been mostly plane of lethal flatness since then, though he’s a stand up guy who continues to do an incredible amount to rebuild our relationship. We’re still very close in many ways—close friends, intertwined lives, excellent division of labor and partnership parenting, shared hobbies and interests, etc. There are tons of things that I deeply respect and like about him. Right now I have a serious back injury/pain and he’s doing literally everything, without complaint. I’m comfortable with my decision to reconcile. I hope that the romantic feelings toward him come back; I hope that I regain a sense of our relationship as special. I hope we go from having a steady, decent sex life back to having the more playful, comfortable, adventurous, unselfconscious sex we had before his affair. I hope I feel somewhat secure at some point; I hope I get to a place where I’m not second guessing everything about our past and wondering what he might do in the future. I hope those things, but I don’t know if they’ll happen. In the meantime, I care about him and love him, and our relationship is solid enough and workable enough to feel good about staying in.

When I think about your situation through the lens of my own, here’s what I come up with:

The emotional switch flip may be a self-protective mechanism, but it might also be a gut sense that reconciling is not a good option for you. Give it time and weigh your options rationally, but definitely listen to your gut.

You are right to have serious reservations about trying to reconcile while he still works with her. It is brutal, if not untenable. I’ve not drawn this line because it’s far more complicated in my husband’s line of work and for our individual situation than it is for most people, but I would certainly advise anyone to require a change of job situation as a prerequisite for reconciliation.

I don’t know enough about post-nups to advise you, but I think it’s good to be as unflinchingly practical as possible. If your partner can’t handle the practical realities and consequences of their behavior, they’re a poor candidate for reconciliation.

Your instinct that asks why get caught in a cycle where you’re wondering if they’ll do this again is sound and healthy. There are ways to combat the cycle of wondering if you decide on reconciliation, but it’s perfectly valid and healthy to choose to end the relationship and not put yourself in that cycle.

I also think a lot about statistics and odds and numbers. Good data is incredibly hard to come by when it comes to relationships after infidelity, and even if we had great data, I’m not sure it’s super helpful when it comes to choosing a path. I think Sisoon’s advice is more useful there.

My relationship is not as good (certainly not better) after infidelity. But it’s good enough for me to stay. I feel good about my decision to stay in it and work on it. I also feel good about my decision to pursue and be responsible for my own happiness; that’s something I can definitely do in the context of my relationship as it stands. As it happens, I also want my husband to be happy.

But, if your gut response to your husband’s infidelity is emotional flatness toward him, and you sense a healthier and happier life beyond the relationship, don’t ignore that. It’s telling.

[This message edited by Grieving at 9:30 PM, Saturday, October 22nd]