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Reconciliation :
WW says affair partner is better at initiating sex

Topic is Sleeping.
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RecklessForgiver ( member #82891) posted at 11:14 PM on Sunday, February 19th, 2023

I don't have any advice for you; I am still in the early stages of my own path through the aftermath of DD.

But I want to say that my heart breaks reading this because I understand the depth of the wound of this betrayal on our ability to feel desirable, sexy, loved. I can imagine the knife to the gut a comment like this would bring to me, even years after this moment.

But you are worth being desired and loved on your own terms. All of the BS on this site are. If our WS cannot see that, then their hearts are too small for what we need and deserve.

RecklessForgiver

posts: 92   ·   registered: Feb. 17th, 2023   ·   location: Midwest
id 8778519
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Trapped74 ( member #49696) posted at 7:37 PM on Monday, February 20th, 2023

Agreed. For all the stupidity my WH spews on the regular, he's always been smart enough to NEVER compare me to the AP, in ANY way (how can you compare mithril to rat turds?? grin ) let alone in an unflattering way. If the AP is so awesome, tell her to go for it, and happy mf'n trails!

Many DDays. Me (BW) 49 Him (WH) 52 Happily detached and compartmentalized.

posts: 335   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Oregon
id 8778631
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 12:54 AM on Tuesday, February 21st, 2023

I completely agree with BSR.

Also, even leaving aside past sexually abusive relationships, scheduling sex is a problematic concept for me because it’s just checking off a box. It’s inauthentic (or at least calls the authenticity into question). Unless both partners are always horny and up for it 100% of the time, but literally have to find time for it by penciling it into the calendar, I just don’t see how someone isn’t going to question if the actual desire for it exists or if it’s a mechanical task done to placate the other.

All that being said, certainly she should have kept her mouth shut regarding a comparison. Disrespectful.

Married -> I cheated -> We divorced -> We remarried -> Had two kids -> Now we’re miserable again

Staying together for the kids

D-day 2010

posts: 6490   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8778662
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:55 PM on Tuesday, February 21st, 2023

Also, even leaving aside past sexually abusive relationships, scheduling sex is a problematic concept for me because it’s just checking off a box. It’s inauthentic (or at least calls the authenticity into question).

To take the Devil's Advocate side of this. For a man to initial sex, he must be horny. Not just horny generally; he needs to be situationally horny for the specific woman he is with, in the specific moment that he is initiating sex. For a lot of men, possibly most, this requires some sense that a sexual overture will be welcomed, that the partner desires the sex. It's difficult to muster up a sense of horniness if you know for sure that your spouse definitely does not want sex. For many men, it's difficult to muster up a sense of horniness if you wonder/doubt whether your spouse will welcome it. That doubt, it has an effect on Sir Topham Hat like a dip in an icy cold lake.

Infidelity like the type in this thread, it creates a blanket of doubt. For a man whose confidence is already shaky, it becomes a virtual death sentence on his ability to initiate.

If the two have agreed in advance that if he initiates on a specified date/time, she will welcome it and reciprocate, that can give him that push of confidence that he needs.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4179   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8778701
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Wiseoldfool ( member #78413) posted at 1:18 PM on Tuesday, February 21st, 2023

Speaking as a BH, I can vouch for ButForTheGrace’s remarks above.

If there is one thing worse than the betrayal, or one thing that makes the betrayal even worse, it is being rejected sexually by the woman who did not reject the AP. While I agree that scheduling sex can take some of the spontaneity out of it, on balance this is a viable option under the right conditions.

Every secret you keep with your affair partner sustains the affair. Every lie you tell, every misunderstanding you permit, every deflection you pose, every omission you allow sustains the affair.

posts: 330   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2021
id 8778706
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 12:59 AM on Wednesday, February 22nd, 2023

As I am not a man nor a betrayed spouse, I will defer to you gentlemens’ perspective.

I do have a question, though: as human beings aren’t wind-up dolls, what happens when either spouse, but specifically for this scenario the less often sexually initiative partner, is not in the mood at the appointed time? If they admit not being interested in sex at that time, wouldn’t that compound the feeling of rejection? If they go along with it, isn’t that a.) lying by omission and b.) merely complying with sex they don’t want to have to appease their partner? Surely you wouldn’t want that either?

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 1:00 AM, Wednesday, February 22nd]

Married -> I cheated -> We divorced -> We remarried -> Had two kids -> Now we’re miserable again

Staying together for the kids

D-day 2010

posts: 6490   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8778802
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Wiseoldfool ( member #78413) posted at 1:51 AM on Wednesday, February 22nd, 2023

My concept is that there is a date and time at which the commitment to be intimate relieves the anxiety of asking. If at that moment there isn’t mutual enthusiasm for it, it’s rescheduled. I would never advocate for "duty Sex" because, having had that happen to me during my wife’s affair, it’s worse than the rejection. I didn’t know if the affair at the time, but I knew she was only "checking the box" and it was awful and demoralizing.

Every secret you keep with your affair partner sustains the affair. Every lie you tell, every misunderstanding you permit, every deflection you pose, every omission you allow sustains the affair.

posts: 330   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2021
id 8778813
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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 6:38 PM on Saturday, February 25th, 2023

I'm confused...

If all they did was kiss and sext, what did he initiate better?

He leaned towards her more aggressively when kissing her?

He sexted first?

Can you explain?

Darkness Falls - my answer to that would be if she was never not in the mood with AP, then I should be afforded the same. And if she can't be as in to me sexually as she was him, then it's time to D.

posts: 2850   ·   registered: Aug. 22nd, 2016   ·   location: South Texas
id 8779390
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:58 PM on Sunday, February 26th, 2023

And if she can't be as in to me sexually as she was him, then it's time to D.

Thanks for that. Your sentence made me realize how to say something that I've been trying to say for 10 years.

I don't give a shit about how/in what way/etc. my W wanted ow.

I want my W to desire me the way I want to be desired. That's part of why R has worked for us. I believe I would say the same thing if my W's ap were male.

I want what I want, not what some other person wants.

*****

Scheduling sex can be very beneficial in modern lives. It's a way to be close even when kids or work or friends or other family have to get pieces of one's time and attention.

BTW, if you live long enough to use an ED drug, you pretty much have to schedule sex, because 1) it takes time for the drugs to work, and 2) the drugs work for a limited amount of time, and the clock starts ticking when you ingest the drug.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:59 PM, Sunday, February 26th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29787   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8779478
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Never2late ( member #79079) posted at 6:43 PM on Sunday, February 26th, 2023

Perhaps cruel but candid? All I'm saying is I would want the truth. You get to decide what to do with that information.

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8779485
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 6:52 PM on Sunday, February 26th, 2023

If they admit not being interested in sex at that time, wouldn’t that compound the feeling of rejection? If they go along with it, isn’t that a.) lying by omission and b.) merely complying with sex they don’t want to have to appease their partner? Surely you wouldn’t want that either?

I didn't reconcile with my WW, so I can't speak from personal experience on this.

One of the overwhelmingly common feelings a BH feels is emasculation. I'm aware that BW's also often experience "efemulation", but I'm speaking specifically to BH's here. For couples who wish R to succeed, in some manner, the emasculation must be ameliorated. One way of course is for the WW herself to initiate sex frequently and with genuine enthusiasm, and/or demonstrate sexual desire for the BH in a manner that encourages him to initiate. Certainly that would be ideal.

Real life isn't always ideal. What I understand to be the issue here is a WW who herself won't initiate sex, and a BH who has difficulty initiating sex in the best of circumstances. It puts the couple into a catch-22. Scheduling sex can be a way to overcome these sorts of hurdles.

As to the question of "duty sex", there has been a lot of discussion here about how a remorseful WW truly committed to R sometimes has to take a "fake it 'till you make it" approach to sex with her BH. Again, I do not disagree that this is less than ideal. However, for couples with the initiating issues the couple in this thread seem to have, I think it's a viable strategy to at least try.

I guess that phrasing it another way might be: The WW's actions here, especially connected to her A, served to diminish the BH's ability to feel confident about initiating. If the couple wish to R and wish to have an active sex life, and if the WW wants that to include the BH initiating most or all of the time, then in some manner they need to figure out how to restore his desire and confidence to initiate. How can you do that when initiating is infused with the specter of rejection? What would you propose to negate that paradox?

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 4179   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8779486
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 8:04 PM on Sunday, February 26th, 2023

I do have a question, though: as human beings aren’t wind-up dolls, what happens when either spouse, but specifically for this scenario the less often sexually initiative partner, is not in the mood at the appointed time? If they admit not being interested in sex at that time, wouldn’t that compound the feeling of rejection? If they go along with it, isn’t that a.) lying by omission and b.) merely complying with sex they don’t want to have to appease their partner? Surely you wouldn’t want that either?

I think the answer to this isn’t black and white. I don’t think a reasonable person would expect either a WW or WH to have to perform on demand every time no matter what. People get sick, people can be exhausted, and things happen where someone just not having a good day. I wouldn’t expect 100% compliance for sex.

However if the refusal becomes something that happens all the time, and can’t be tied back to a reason it’s something a BS has a right to be upset about. Especially if the WS was in a relationship with the AP where they never refused them. My EX went at it almost every day. My guess it was new and exciting, but still she had to have at least one of those days where she wasn’t totally invested in having sex. Yet she did it anyway.

I would look at the sex with the BS as like going to the gym when you aren’t 100% excited to go. You do it because it’s good for your body, as having sex with your BS is good for your marriage.

As to the appeasing your partner or being disingenuous by having sex, no I wouldn’t see it that way. You have destroyed your BS. If you lied about having sex with your AP is murder to the marriage. Having sex if you aren’t totally into it is an akin to a misdemeanor like jay walking. Hard to be righteous after you get caught.

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2145   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8779498
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Never2late ( member #79079) posted at 8:42 PM on Sunday, February 26th, 2023

But now you are relying on her being a good actress for you. After infidelity BS should be highly tuned to bullsht.

She probably wasn't acting for the other guy.

No good answers I'm afraid.

[This message edited by Never2late at 9:13 PM, Sunday, February 26th]

posts: 203   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8779502
Topic is Sleeping.
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