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They always come crawling back too. At least the ones with any brains. Part of it has to be nobody will ever want to start a new fresh relationship with someone who was divorced after they cheated. They realize they aren't worth squat and try their hardest! sorry honey, no matter how many books you read you still basically had sex with an animal, there ain't no helping that!

he was embarrassed to be out with her
Yep. My H told me the same thing. Which makes no sense WHY he would even be with her . She was a secret, no one could ever know. Second best. He told me after the scales fell from his eyes he really, truly looked at her - her physical attributes and her personality and realized that she was truly an ugly person both inside and out.

They always come crawling back too.... Part of it has to be nobody will ever want to start a new fresh relationship with someone who was divorced after they cheated.

Gently, if you believe that, you're lying to yourself. They don't always come back in any way, much less 'crawling', many WSes have new relationships, even M.

Telling yourself lies does nothing to heal you. Now is the time to get in touch with reality.

Telling yourself and others that you're superior to your WS doesn't help much or for long. There's a big difference between being superior to a WS and being good with oneself.

The ap was not ugly in my case but as soon as she opened her mouth she was disgusting.

I do know that eventually ugly on the inside shows.

That's why I said the smart ones come crawling back, not dumb ones. You forgot that part in your quote. It's also not a lie. It puts into perspective lots of things. Realizing my wife wasn't a good spouse, mother, person is depressing, but realizing it had nothing to do with me makes me feel better. I have my own issues of course, problems everyone has at some point.

[This message edited by Dontgetit4 at 6:16 PM, Sunday, April 9th]

In my case I know there was more than one and I have not idea how the second one I know of looks. To me intimacy with a person who has character is like a several course steak dinner. (Or the vegetarian equivalent). Intimacy with an active cheater I think of like the pictures I have seen of the pink goo meat in a happy meal....anyway....I digress..

"until you pointed out that one is a cheater and the other is a faithful loyal man. So I guess it ultimately does just come down to that"

In actuality the OW really don't cross my mind and I don't compare myself to them anymore. I did in the past and it was all pain shopping. Now I hold my head up high. Work on my own healing and character. And who they were/are becomes really insignificant to me!

I think it makes me think less of him. The entire PA he had during our marriage was so deeply, deeply stupid. So incredibly and not remotely worth it. She wasn’t as attractive or even as good at sex. It wasn’t frequent or good, there was no real emotional connection (which he craves). She held no advantage over me except that he hadn’t attached his own shame to her. (He cheated on me before we were married and gave me an STD… so I think it was really curtains for me, then. His shame would repel him from me at times. So see what he did to try and escape that shame? Fun.)

And she, as a person was… and is… not a great person.

I met her shortly after their PA was over (she was a work client of his, basically).

If I were her friend, I’d say she was cute in this way or that one. Being generous, or being biased towards her... if I’d been her friend.

She’s not entirely stupid, she’s interesting at first blush, she’s extremely flirty, she’s superficially charming and bubbly, I guess. I remember her dressing somewhat sexily, in a hippie sort of way.

She’s a 5, maybe a 5.5— but not the way you’d picture a 5— you know, just kind of plain. "Objectively" speaking, personality aside, she’s not ugly, per se, but more like a person who would be a 7 if they weren’t also kind of funny-looking. Sorry, but true. Like when you smush Barbie’s face in.

Look. Bottom line. She’s pushing 60 and she’s a 5 for a 60-year-old. I’m 45+ and I’m an 8.5 for a 35-year-old.

And WH thinks so too. And always has.

At the time of the PA, she was in her early 40s and I was in my late 20s, and I was heavier than I am now, but very curvy and still much more attractive than she was.

He admitted that during sex with her, he’d take off his glasses and/or squint to try and make her more attractive.

I do feel superior, weirdly. And I don’t like being sexist and ageist and all that— but maybe I can say these things with confidence because she’s also such an empty, selfish, vapid, intellectually incurious blowhard of a narcissist. She’s not nearly as intelligent as I am and she seems to have no real empathy. Everything is a performance for her. Everything seems to be about her.

I can one million percent understand why an "ugly" AP could actually make you feel worse. I mean, your WS chose them over you. And certainly, it’s worse for me in that it makes me think even less of him. Like he squandered our love… on this?

But then you understand about time, place, opportunity, brokenness— the way it’s all about their own shame and their own inadequacies, not about actually setting out to find the hottest chick they can bang. Not about "If I’m going to do this, I’m going to make it count." Of course, then you realize— they didn’t have to make it count, make it amazing. Because they valued you so little. It wasn’t that they valued you so highly that only a really stellar AP could turn their heads. They valued you, your marriage, and themselves, so little, that it could have been almost anyone.

But it does affirm that it was definitely, definitely, definitely not about you.

ETA: In the service of radical honesty, I went today and looked at photos and videos of her again, briefly, and I say she's more like a 6.5, age-adjusted. Of course she's hideous to me for her behaviors, her thoughts, her values. But she also is what she is, which is mildly physically attractive, IMO. But I do know that's not, per se, what attracted WH to her. When it comes to choosing an AP, physical attractiveness is never the only thing, and it's rarely the most significant thing.

[This message edited by JellyPineappleFlavor at 6:52 PM, Thursday, April 13th]

The AP in my situation was objectively attractive. At the risk of conceit, so am I. If you were to rank us based on looks, it would likely come down to personal preference.

It didn't stop me from comparing myself to her and feeling bad about myself. It didn't stop me from wondering if only I looked this way, or done this, maybe he wouldn't have cheated. It also didn't stop me from making comments (on a similar thread here at the time) about the ways in which I believed I looked better than her. Saying those things didn't make me feel any better about myself though ... In fact, immediately afterwards I felt bad. I read another thread about a BS who was struggling with her weight and I worried that someone like her, who was already feeling badly about herself (like I was), would read my comments, and feel worse about herself.

While we may have been comparable looks-wise, I felt solid in knowing that my character was better than hers. My ethics were good. My morals were in tact. I wasn't going to become the kind of person that makes fun of a person's appearance for her or anyone.

Just remember that if all AP are ugly then your spouse is probably the ugly AP for someone else.

The goblin looking fellow didn't have anyone . Maybe wws should wear a bag over their heads so moral women don't have to get their day ruined seeing a whore?

Maybe wws should wear a bag over their heads so moral women don't have to get their day ruined seeing a whore?

Are you implying all WW are whores? Your wife included? The wonderful former wayward wives that contribute so much to this site also? The late wife of your host – the wife this site is dedicated to also?

If you are, then shame on you. If its only bad wording, then I suggest you go edit it and then maybe think for a minute or two before pressing the "submit" button.

This site neither condones infidelity nor supports those that want to remain in active infidelity, but simply by reading the story of the founders it’s clear that this site believes in redemption and change. Doesn’t mean you have to remain married if you truly think your wife is immoral and incapable of change, but doesn’t give you the privilege of calling out all the other wayward women as "whores". That should be pretty clear in the guidelines that I know you have been sent.

Please Dontgetit4 – tread carefully. This site can be such a resource for you in your recovery. We fully understand the rage and anger in the early days and we even accept and condone rants (within reason) but comments like the outlined one above are beyond that. It would be a shame if we had to deny you this resource.

It definitely made me feel better. In some ways it caused the problem though. When the OW asked my husband if she could come work as his assistant at a huge pay cut for her I should have been suspicious. But, when I saw a picture of her in the employee directory I thought she was pretty ugly and so I was like whatever…no threat there. Little did I know how low the bar actually was. She is three years older than me with plain Jane looks. She essentially went to trade school and I have multiple Ivy League graduate degrees. (Sounds so braggy, sorry this is me trying to prop myself up). She had recently lost some weight so I think she was feeling more confident about her looks. If the story is to be believed, big IF, then she kissed him in the office and said ‘is that okay?‘ I wish he had said NOOOO. But, of course he didn’t. Free ‘physicality’ as he put it.

It was nonsensical because…

1. He was upset about not having enough sex and hooked up with a church girl wearing a cross who refused to go beyond 2nd base. I can tell you if I was having an affair I would definitely have sex. Why the hell not, you’ve already cheated. Anyway, she clearly has no real sexual appetite. I think she was just attracted to his paycheck.

2. He was upset that we lived next door to my parents so he hooked up with someone who actually lived in the same house with her parents and her husband

3. ** No Politics **

4. My husband is a big snob and the AP is someone he literally NEVER could bring home to mom and dad. Essentially if anyone knew he was hooking up with her he would be mortified.

But like everyone else says, the big difference is character. This is someone who knowingly wanted to destroy the lives of three little children with no moral qualms whatsoever. Honestly, the best punishment I could ever have inflicted would have been to let my husband go off with her. Unsurprisingly, that was not what he wanted to do in the end.

The way in which she was MUCH BETTER THAN ME was in her realization that he really needed his ego stroked. Really needed to hear her say « you’re such a good doctor… ». It seems so unbelievably pathetic but I didn’t see how insecure my husband really was. I can be insecure too so I should be compassionate. Heck now I’m really insecure and need to be told « you are …[insert compliment] » all the time. I guess he was at a low point. It is no excuse and my husband should not have gone outside to get his ego stroked. But, for about 8 months there he was truly not his best self. I knew he would not go off with her but I could also see that she was a disease that needed to be surgically removed from our lives. She ended up in a psych hospital when he went NC with her. What a mess.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:18 PM, Friday, April 14th]

Maybe wws should wear a bag over their heads so moral women don't have to get their day ruined seeing a whore?

Given that so many actual whores are in the business because they've been trafficked and enslaved, I think you need to adjust your metaphors.

And I really wish you focused on character instead of looks. Lots of WSes actually look terrific, unless you think Cary Grant and the young Sophia Loren, to name only 2 cheaters, are ugly. Are those WSes exempt from your attacks?

Again, I understand that you're in pain. Having contempt for WWs in general is not a way to heal, though, especially since your focus on WWs may imply you're OK with WHes, and double standards are contemptible IMO. Having contempt for your WS is a step toward healing, and you've taken that step. Now it's time to focus on yourself and to focus on your self-talk. Unless you change yourself, you're dooming yourself to a bitter life.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:24 PM, Saturday, April 15th]

A couple things.

Bigger

I said ww and not fww for a reason, and yes, my wife is a whore.

Though I do agree with what I said was out of line regardless of how I clarify it

Sisoon

You said: "Given that so many actual whores are in the business because they've been trafficked and enslaved, I think you need to adjust your metaphors."

I would have to disagree with you there, rape and abuse victims aren't whores.

Also, why would those idiots be exempt from my attacks? I wouldn't want to see either of them walking down the street. The guy was married what, 5 times? Maybe have someone figure out a way to resurrect him in his late 20s so he can take an IQ test then we can kickbox and I can snap his jaw off so yeah I hate whs too don't worry.

[This message edited by Dontgetit4 at 6:57 PM, Saturday, April 15th]

I would have to disagree with you there, rape and abuse victims aren't whores.

That’s not what he is talking about.

But that's what trafficking victims are, rape and abuse victims, not "actual whores"

I don't recall any waywards who are actually FWS, here,ever saying they were wonderful people during the affair.

Regardless, on the other side of nearly every FWS, is a BS who has nothing nice to say about them. And that's ok. It's normal to not extol words of praise on someone who had sex with your spouse.

Interesting that no one admonishes the BH for using "POSUM," when referring to the OM.

OP, no its not easier that OW was ugly and stupid. She's also insane,manipulative, and a stalker. She uses everyone to get what she wants,and doesn't care who she hurts. The only reason her husband won't leave her,is because he doesn't want the children left alone in her care.

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:16 PM, Saturday, April 15th]

Dontgetit4 will not be returning.

It didn't seem to matter what I thought about her I was only wondering why he was interested in her. I did compare myself to her physically definitely not mentally she is a troubled person. But I never got a real reason if he found her attractive he would always just say it wasn't about her or her physically it was more the emotional feelings she was giving him but I can't stop being upset that he had this affair with her and it was ea that led to a one time ons that he regrets but that he says she had frizzy hair and no boobs and no body and he used her that as my counselor stated is basically like a middle finger to me and I assume when he slept with her he got so drunk because she was so unattractive and says he just thought of her as a opportunity not a person he ever wanted a real relationship with