SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Had a weird few days.

First MC session, just a background session, no therapy really. Covered the whole thing all my failings (not being present, contributing equally which I mentioned before) and hers and the current situation.

MC was brutally honest in a good way, we spent some time on my stuff (which I totally agree needs to improve) and how WS was mad at me for it. He also said "I won't ask you to forgive the A and I won't ask you to forget it" which made sense. Touched on a lot of Gotman stuff. In reference to A he said he doesnt believe in the "it meant nothing bullshit".

He finished by warning WS to prepare for "rigorous honesty" in the next session.

Later WS was livid, saying after all I had done she ended up being the villan. I acknowledged my prior poor behaviour and pointed to the changes I have been making (since Dday). I said that I wasn't treating her as the villan but she had to own her behaviour and the responsibility to repair the damage. There was some arguing, old unresolved issues coming back again.

We kind of left it there. Emotions were high. We probably need to learn to communicate better.

She has been very sensitive of my digital snooping which makes me wary. I know A is over but the why so sensitive about it. Pretty much every resource says free and clear transparency. It's something I need to revisit when we are more calm. I think in WS mind, A fizzled out long ago and so no need to snoop. Obviously I feel different.

Last night she was very caring and cuddly in bed; this morning actually requested intimacy in advance for this evening (this might be the first time in our 25 years she has done that).

So there are good signs and some things to worry about (resistance to transparency). I don't know if I will R or D mostly just focused on healing. I think this sort of messy back and forth is probably how it goes.

Am still getting overwhelmed at times so go find a place to cry, can't sleep etc. This is good, it's really days and I need to work through all of this.

I will say my journalling is pretty dark and gloomy. I tell myself I want to leave, and then feel anxious when I see WS. I wrote an impact letter for WS but I'm not happy that any good would come from it (or even what I want from it).

MC was brutally honest in a good way, we spent some time on my stuff (which I totally agree needs to improve) and how WS was mad at me for it. He also said "I won't ask you to forgive the A and I won't ask you to forget it" which made sense. Touched on a lot of Gotman stuff. In reference to A he said he doesnt believe in the "it meant nothing bullshit".

He finished by warning WS to prepare for "rigorous honesty" in the next session.

Later WS was livid, saying after all I had done she ended up being the villan. I acknowledged my prior poor behaviour and pointed to the changes I have been making (since Dday). I said that I wasn't treating her as the villan but she had to own her behaviour and the responsibility to repair the damage. There was some arguing, old unresolved issues coming back again.

This is why you were advised to disco MC and have her continue IC with someone who specializes in infidelity. All this finger pointing does is muddy the waters imo. Its a form of equivocation and gaslighting. Not productive. Then the classic cuddling and physical affection...i.e. love bombing.

It saddens me to hear of a BS putting themself through yet another meat grinder on the heals of having their world blown up by treason, in large part because I did much tbe same and it just prolonged the agony. Still, the chosen path is yours to own. There is a BH poster here who also went to MC but absolutely refused to touch on marital issues until the treason was dealt with extensively and thoroughly. The therapist took umbrage with his position so he refused to go back until a therapist with the proper expertise was located. He ended up divorcing her anyway and then offered reconciliation.

Just a thought.

Since this MC is supposed to have infidelity-specific specialization and based on what has been shared I think this might work out (the MC – not necessarily the marriage).

I get the early assessment of what both sides consider an issue on the table. Your wife’s reactions to-date are expected. Sort-of minimizing her acts, while maximizing your shortcomings. What is of the most importance now IMHO is how the MC reacts moving on. Had the MC started by laying all the blame in WW lap chances are she wouldn’t be back. Yet I don’t hear that he white-washed her.

Way back on the first page of this thread I made the comparison of rape and infidelity. I’m not putting these two terrible things on a comparable level, but what they do have in common is that something is done that affects you without your consent, and that both tend to leave people feeling like they did something wrong to make this happen to them. It’s this comparison that I find can be helpful in making others understand the pain. I also think the "justifications" of the perpetrator is comparable.
Like... When she goes on about you not doing laundry, the dishes and all that (btw – division of chores is probably one of the biggest cause of discord in marriage) then she’s the rapist claiming that you led her on, touched her hip, wore those tight jeans, didn’t resist... whatever. She’s finding ways to justify and explain her actions. You can acknowledge your issues; yes I did touch her hip/leave dirty clothes on the floor, yes I sneaked a kiss/didn’t clean the bathroom... but be careful to NEVER accept that those shortcomings "explain" or "justify" her decision to cheat.

Two final issues:
Going to MC and then arguing afterwards isn’t productive. Tell her that this isn’t the time or place for this discussion. If she feels that way, then she should bring it up in the next session.
Finally: Be very clear to her that you BOTH have options. If she feels ganged up on or wrongly accused, she can stop going to MC. She can leave the marriage. Divorce/separation is a valid path to escape dealing with this marital issue. She CAN do any of that. But at the same time remind her that YOU have the same options; including the option of deciding reconciliation isn’t feasible if she isn’t contributing in what you see a positive way. Like... if she refuses to go to MC or clams down during sessions that should be a sign to you that this path – reconciliation – isn’t feasible.

Dear Friend, normal therapist IMO generally are not equipped to deal with betrayal trauma. I highly suggest finding a Betrayal trauma specialist. They know how to take you through the steps necessary to begin healing. Normal therapist often overemphasize normal short fallings of a marriage which makes the Betrayed spouse feel like they have some blame.

Please search on YouTube for Jake Porter and start watching his videos. 🙏

As usual Bigger is spot on. Pretty much every WS tries to deflect part of the blame and guilt onto the bs. They do this to make themselves feel better

The extra attention is typical, most call it hysterical bonding. Lord knows my wife and I did a lot of that very early on

When your wife tries to use your shortcomings as justification for her Affair simply remind her that she always had the option to end the relationship and find another man who could give her everything that she needed but she took the easy way out and had an affair. SHE made the conscious decision to have an affair and since you were not part of this decision-making process you bare ZERO responsibility for the consequences

My wife tried that early on. She said placing blame doesn't help, we are both at fault and I sternly reminded her that this is 100% on her, I carry zero blame for her actions. It took her a long time to be able to say yes, this is 100% my fault and one she was able to accept that and verbalize it it helped with our R.

Our therapist tried using the Gottman stuff step by step and I quickly got frustrated. It was focusing on improving communication. I think it was the third session where I said are we going to discuss the reason why we are here and the therapist said yes but it would help for the two of you to learn how to communicate better so at our next session when she tried bringing up the gottman stuff I derailed that and move the conversation into discussing why we are here so the therapist gave up on that gottman nonsense.

I'm predicting your wife will get frustrated and angry and aggravated when the therapist calls her out for her actions and the therapist will assumably shut down your wife's defense of yeah well my husband didn't do this for this or this or this for me and that's why I had an affair

I do somewhat disagree with not discussing something that came up during a session when you get home as long as you can calmly communicate back and forth. If it escalates into shouting then it's not productive and I would advise stopping the conversation and saying we will bring us up at our next session

Until your wife can say with all honesty the affair is 100% her fault and she is sincere and you can believe her R will not work. Denying responsibility or trying to minimize it will quickly destroy R.

[This message edited by WB1340 at 6:23 PM, Wednesday, October 8th]

The difference from affair#1 and affair#2 for me — was ME!

I changed. I stood up for myself. I set the bar so high to R (w/out telling my H) that I wasn’t sure we had a prayer to R (but obviously I didn’t really care b/c my plan was to D him).

As HE was the one who wanted to R — he did the hard work.

In so many cases it appears that the cheater wants to the sweep the affair under the rug, avoid the marital problems, blame the betrayed and expect everything to go back to the way it was pre-affair.

I think that for those situations, it might be wise to set a clock and see how much work the cheater goes towards R. If no major improvements I’d suggest ending the marriage.

Honestly the time wasted waiting for a cheater to "get it" could be spent by the betrayed in healing and D the cheater. And moving on to a more peaceful life.

Again just my opinion. But I feel bad when I see betrayed people still suffering at the hands of the cheater years after Dday.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:32 PM, Wednesday, October 8th]

A lot to think about as always. You all have my appreciation. Will reflect on what people have shared.

The piece that jumped out at me was the bit around bring back the MC to the affair. She had years to do MC for her complaints. This is about the A and addressing that first and foremost.

Will have distance from WS for 10 days while I travel overseas. I think that will be an interesting time of reflection and healing.

Oh the joy of intrusive thoughts. Sigh.

Ground yourself, feel the emotion, name it, let it flow over. Rinse and repeat 10,000 times.

Oh the joy of intrusive thoughts. Sigh.

Ground yourself, feel the emotion, name it, let it flow over. Rinse and repeat 10,000 times.

Hang in there man, and I say that to myself as much as to you. The intrusive thoughts and memories, both real and imagined, are the worst. I'm told they will diminish over time.

If the MC starts going back and trying to get you to talk about other problems in your marriage, just tell them, "I’m sitting here bleeding out from a gunshot wound, and you are more concerned about fixing the hangnail I have." They should understand triage, but that should get the point across.

NRTD,

This is going to sound stupid but it works. When you have overwhelming emotions kicking your square in the pants:

1. Go outside, find somewhere relatively private. I go for walks.
2. Find a physical object. It can be anything.
3. Let’s say you found a tree to talk to. Look at the tree and, speaking out loud, tell the tree why you are feeling this way.

It sounds like whacky science, and it may be, but verbalizing one’s emotions scratches some itch that is tough to explain.

Love the suggestion sharkman. Went on a run just now. Swore at most of the telephone poles I passed telling the how f*ING angry I am.

Oh, that was a perfect response to a therapist who will not take no for answer.

I pass this along as a "warning". The best college professor I ever had taught political science. He said anytime anyone tries to get you to do something that you know is not something you can do, or will do look at their agenda. He said pay attention to the news media, pay attention to your spouse, your office, your friends, and especially when you are somewhat at their mercy(I.e.IC), because every single one of us has an agenda. It depends on which type of training your therapist has as to what kind of bias they have. It’s called confirmation bias.