SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What the world?!

I avoid inappropriate interactions and situations with men because I respect myself and my partner, whether he deserves that respect or not. And even more than respecting him, I respect ME, and how I feel I should conduct MYSELF.

Babygirl, you are in no place to warn me and tell me to take heed to anything you have to tell me. I’ve tried to be kind and respectful, but you went too far with that. Check yourself and focus on why you cheated on your husband, and how you can try to fix that, if possible, instead of trying to insist that I might be a cheater one day too.

Well, I tried. Good luck.

Yea, you did try me. I wish for and hope the best for your BH.

hi Ghostie, I haven't read all of your posts, so forgive me if this was already covered in another area. I've noticed a pattern that reminds me of patterns I see in myself. In your case, it is wanting to get help, but needing the person giving the help to put themselves at the same level as you - not superior, not better, not in a position to judge - but equals. I 100% relate to that, I was never helped by a BS who approached me with a tone of superiority. I know where that comes from in my past. Does this ring true for you? If it does, do you know where it comes from in your past?

I think that when we have either chronic or acute trauma, we often go back and try to address it by re-enacting. Other than not accepting help from people who put themselves in a position of superiority, another acute trauma re-enactment I did over and over was to have sex with men. That comes from a 13yo rape. I put myself in that position over and over again to try to gain a sense of agency and victory. Can you believe that?! Punishing men by having sex with them. I realize now how stupid that was (and dangerous), but my 13yo brain was firmly in control, and the idea of getting a man to a point of sexual vulnerability, where there was nothing he wanted more than sex, and then immediately after rejecting him, felt like victory to me. Some other part of my brain knew it was shameful, so I couldn't even face what was happening, I would dust myself off and go on with my normal looking life, until the urge to re-enact the trauma became irresistable again.

So that's what it looks like to me with your posting, except your habit of engaging people and either getting them to agree that they are equal to you or getting them to assert superiority, and then fighting about it, is a bit less destructive than my pattern. Still, it's probably not helping you heal, and it might be a good idea to take a look at where it's coming from and address the root causes.

Hi Ghostie,

I remember saying "I am not your wayward," though I didn't mean "I'm not like your WS in behavior or character." What I meant was "Although I am here to learn and grow and atone for my transgressions against my BS, I am not here to be the whipping boy for all BS. I do not owe you a belly crawl as catharsis for your anger at your own betrayer or at waywards in general." The one time I got a warning on this site was when I publicly blew my stack about that. It was six years ago, and it will probably surprise some folks here to read about it, because I am generally a rule follower and a strong advocate of the benefits of SI. Despite getting into it with management at the time, I ultimately went on to become a guide and moderator. (I'm back to private citizen status now, entirely voluntarily, so all my comments should be read in that light.)

I am not going to try to tell you that you'll never encounter anyone here who feels free to treat you poorly because they feel they occupy the moral high ground. I will suggest that maybe you're hearing it more loudly and frequently than it's actually being said. Most of the BS here are legitimately trying to help you. Some of the best, most helpful, compassionate advice I've received here has been from BS. If they see you trying, they'll extend an arm to help you up. At the same time, they're going to defend themselves if you announce that they're all living on the edge of cheating if the circumstances aligned. Trying to get them to admit that because you're hurt and angry isn't a whole lot different than someone trying to force you into a shame spiral. It's not productive and takes your eyes off your own plate.

The shaming tendencies have also improved a lot over the years. When I arrived, there was a thread that suggested there was value in some cultures' practices of beating WS in the public square. When I pushed back, I was told that most BS would prefer to be punched in the face than cheated on. I have no doubt that's true -- I'm a mad hatter, so in addition to watching my BS suffer, I have personal experience of betrayal. But that doesn't mean anyone gets a pass for physical abuse, and it's an entirely different discussion from the practice of public, institutionalized punishment for a private relationship offense. I said I'd never submit to it, and that remains true. I also think it's rare to find someone here with a thirst for it.

Anyway. The most valuable piece of advice here is to take what you need and leave the rest. Note that it says "what you need," not "what you want," because a lot of the medicine that will do the most good is going to be bitter. But if you feel that someone is trying to use you to make themselves feel righteous and powerful, I recommend you turn down their volume in your own head. You're here for you. Focus on that.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 1:53 PM, Monday, December 1st]

Pippin,

A lot of the trauma I have comes from the manipulation and emotional abuse my stepdad did to me. I have a strong need to be understood, and I get frustrated if I feel that my words are misinterpreted. I choose to believe the individuals here are not doing that on purpose, but rather that they are deafened by their own betrayal trauma and resulting biases… I’ve spent a lot of time here trying to make them understand, I think, because the childhood me wants to hear that understanding and recanting from my stepdad. Adult me understands that it isn’t going to happen. I have therapy with what will hopefully be a "real" therapist tomorrow, with whom I intend to discuss this. Thank you for the reminder to take a step back and consider it this way.

I don’t want to "bring them down to my level." I genuinely mean what I say when I give my warnings that no one is immune from the possibility of infidelity. I have seen enough people, with very strong convictions, go against their purported values in everyday behavior. (You tend to pay attention when you’re consciously trying to enact these values yourself.) I didn’t think I "could ever" commit infidelity myself (and after each time prior to the most recent which weren’t "caught," I thought I "would never" do it again) because I knew it was morally wrong, because I love and respect my husband, because I held fidelity as a value, etc. I do not want to see more people so hurt by infidelity in the world, so I am advising anyone who’s reading here to be on guard and not believe themselves infidelity-proof…

So many people don’t understand how affairs and temptation can "sneak up on you" when you’re at your most vulnerable, when your hidden internal issues have suddenly resurfaced, maybe when you’re in a not-so-great place in your marriage… And along comes the perfect storm to sweep those values right away. Next thing you know you’re in a shame spiral over betraying those values and having an identity crisis.

I don’t want anyone to take this warning personally, as I know many people believe that only "terrible people" become "cheaters" and read this as if I’m accusing them of being that "kind of person." No, the reality is that there’s no "kind of person" who commits infidelity. It can be anyone. I don’t want to see others in the position that I’m in, and for there to be more BS out there. Where is the harm in being extra careful to avoid that, other than maybe taking a blow to the ego and considering oneself capable of infidelity, in order to guard oneself against it?

ETA: Don’t get me wrong, "haven’t ever cheated" is certainly something to be proud of. I still believe "would/could never" is reserved for the end of your life.

[This message edited by Ghostie at 2:50 PM, Monday, December 1st]

As politely as one can say this… fuck that. Especially when it’s coming from people whose reconciliation attempts didn’t work out, no offense. I see absolutely no reason to trust advice from divorcees, other than maybe answers to the question, "What did your wayward do wrong such that you divorced them?"

I can only assume that this was a swipe at me. If you'd rather I refrain from trying to help, I'll step away.

What did my ex-wife do so wrong that I divorced her? She cheated.

I was 17yo the first time I fell in love. A few months after we started dating, my girlfriend slept with one of my best friends (they were both at a two week West Point summer internship contemplating military service). I found out through the grapevine. I didn't break-up with her and stayed friends with him. I chalked it all up to us being dumbass teenagers and forgave them both.

I swore to myself that I would never, ever tolerate that shit again.

Two months later, towards the end of summer, a female friend climbed into bed with me. She was naked and clearly wanted me. I wanted her, too. I couldn't do it. We kissed a bit and hands roamed for a few moments, but I simply couldn't follow through.

Fast forward many years. When I got out of the Navy, I started going to college. I met a woman in class who I really liked. We started dating and I was falling in love. Unfortunately, it turned out that she was in an on-again, off-again relationship with another man. I was a distraction during one of their off-again periods.

A couple of years later I was in a long-term relationship with a wonderful woman. She went back home for a couple of weeks to visit her parents. While she was gone, I ran into the woman I met in that college class. She invited me to her place for dinner (off-again time). I went. We cooked dinner, had some wine, listened to music, talked and laughed. Then she kissed me. Some clothes came off, hands roamed...

Alarm bells went off in head. I swear I was out of the door in 90 seconds flat, much to her chagrin. I simply couldn't do it.

I believe that infidelity is self-destructive. I've done enough self-destructive shit in my life that adding infidelity is simply beyond my capacity for self harm.

Now... my wife, the love of my life...

My immediate reaction to discovery was to run and never look back. Within two months I was talking to a divorce lawyer. There was just one obstacle: my 4yo son. I couldn't blow up his life. I couldn't imagine not seeing him everyday. I decided to take the hit, put his needs beyond my own.

I came to SI to find out if reconciliation was really possible and, if so, how to go about it. Two years later I felt as if we had reconciled. I understood, as much as humanly possible, why she did it. I believed she was sorry, regretful, remorseful. I forgave her.

But... the damage was more than I could bear. I knew that I would never love her the way she wanted me to love her. I let her go. I let me go. We're both happier.

Was it a failure on my part? Maybe. I don't know. What I do know is that infidelity profoundly and permanently alters the nature of a relationship. That alteration is not only with a significant other. It alters the relationship one has with one's self.

Does this answer your question?

Does any of this negate the experiences I've had in my life or here on SI, learning from members, betrayed and wayward?

If you believe that I've misinterpreted your words, feel free to explain. I don't think that I'm right all of the time. In fact, I know that I get shit wrong. And I certainly don't take umbrage with your apparent anger towards me.

My only hope is that I can help, to pay it forward.

I will just say that most of the people on this site who didn’t reconcile tried to. And many of those pitfalls taught me a lot of what to avoid.

And reconciliation is not proof of growth. It’s an outcome of a relationship. Sometimes ending a marriage is growth or the start of it.

Your armor is more in your way than it is helping you. Rising strong by brene brown is a great read that helped illuminate this for me.

Kissing and "hands roaming" is infidelity if you are partnered with someone for whom that is not acceptable. Did you immediately share this with your long term girlfriend at the time, or did you keep it secret? (An apparition of Shirley Glass is whispering in my ear right now, "windows and walls!") Whatever the opposite of "congratulations" is, Unhinged; it sounds to me like you’re unquestionably capable of infidelity… That is not to "swipe at" you; it just an example of people telling themselves they "could never," but the reality is they certainly could.

If you are a BS who couldn’t get over your WS’s betrayal, that’s… well, I don’t want to say "fine," because it’s not "fine." I’m sorry it happened to you. But I guess what I mean is that if that’s the reason your reconciliation attempt failed, that’s one thing. I just don’t think you have it "figured out," so to speak, what a wayward ought to do in order to properly reconcile if it didn’t happen in your relationship. (Ought not to do, sure.) And I understand that sometimes reconciliation is just not possible because of how some BS fundamentally are… But I just don’t give much credit to your advice if that’s the case for you.

It’s like if I had tried to enlist in the military and just realized I wasn’t a good fit during boot camp, and then I went advising recruits on what they ought to do if they want to graduate and remain in the service. It raises eyebrows.

I do not think further explanation from me will help you understand what it is I am attempting to convey.

If you are a BS who couldn’t get over your WS’s betrayal, that’s… well, I don’t want to say "fine," because it’s not "fine." I’m sorry it happened to you. But I guess what I mean is that if that’s the reason your reconciliation attempt failed, that’s one thing. I just don’t think you have it "figured out," so to speak, what a wayward ought to do in order to properly reconcile if it didn’t happen in your relationship. (Ought not to do, sure.) And I understand that sometimes reconciliation is just not possible because of how some BS fundamentally are… But I just don’t give much credit to your advice if that’s the case for you.

It’s like if I had tried to enlist in the military and just realized I wasn’t a good fit during boot camp, and then I went advising recruits on what they ought to do if they want to graduate and remain in the service. It raises eyebrows.

Interesting point... On a unrelated note, aren't you a cheater (as defined as someone who has cheated) who just went on at length giving advice to none cheaters on how to ensure they don't cheat?

Sounds like you are speaking to successful recruits on how to be successful after being dishonourably discharged.

heartbroken12345

I largely agreed with your thoughtful and well constructed response. That being said, I would dispute the following, certainly from my perspective:

'Infidelity is abuse. When a BS discovers their WS's infidelity, a common reaction is name calling and threats, which are normally also seen as abusive and betrays values as well, especially for a BS that would normally never act abusively. However, their values are flexible when enduring the extreme pain they endure. But, this does not mean the BS is an abuser, just like some people can lie once and not be a liar forever. Sometimes, people are flexible in their values when needed'

I would dispute the idea that a BS's reaction "betrays values as well." While intense pain can certainly make a person act out of character, it's also true that many individuals hold values that do not preclude a strong, even aggressive, response to severe betrayal or perceived attack.

My personal perspective, and I suspect many people think likewise, is that retaliation in the face of profound hurt is not necessarily a violation of one's principles. For me, the principle is reciprocity in conflict, or at least self-defense against emotional violence. Infidelity is an act of emotional violence and betrayal.

If someone punches me, I punch them back. If they cheat on me, I call them very nasty names then leave. To do so is not in conflict with my held principles. The values I hold dearest—honesty, loyalty, and mutual respect—were shattered by the WS's actions, not my reaction to them. My strong reaction is an assertion of self-respect and a justified emotional outburst against an abusive act, not a demonstration of a lack of values. A one-time retaliatory act made under duress and extreme pain is logically separate from a pattern of abuse

@Pippin

Thanks for your response. I don't believe furthering a dialogue is of benefit to either of us. I was merely noting the irony that you felt one of my comments was so unredeemable the rest of my posts were worth dismissing. I believe given the reason you are on this forum pointing out that irony is warranted. I personally don't I personally don't believe anyone is irredeemable and am happy to own up that comment being from a place of anger and generally unhelpful.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 8:23 PM, Monday, December 1st]

The entire incident lasted a few minutes. Did I step over the line? Yeah, I did. I didn't expect it at all. We still saw each other on campus from time to time. We were cordial, but not friends. I never forgot that she dumped me rather suddenly. In retrospect it was a mistake to even accept her initial offer to have dinner together, which was something we often did during the short time we dated (poor college students, you know?)

No, I never told my girlfriend. Maybe it was a rationalization on my part that it was close to cheating but not really that bad. I could have stayed that night, had sex, breakfast in the morning, etc. But I didn't.

Seven years isn't exactly "quitting boot camp." However, if my efforts aren't appreciated, I'll be stepping away.

Best wishes.

Interesting point... On a unrelated note, aren't you a cheater (as defined as someone who has cheated) who just went on at length giving advice to none cheaters on how to ensure they don't cheat?

Great question. I am a person who’s actions and beliefs prior to infidelity lead to infidelity. I think I am qualified to advise others on what NOT to do and believe if they want to avoid committing infidelity. As for what TO DO instead to prevent infidelity… That’s what I’m here still trying to learn as much as I can about, and put into practice. I can parrot back what more successful, formerly wayward (as in, now has a lengthy history of fidelity after infidelity) individuals have advised me. But I wouldn’t say that I am an expert with any sort of credibility.

While intense pain can certainly make a person act out of character,

What is the difference between a BS verbally abusing their WS "out of character" as a result of intense pain, and a WS experiencing intense pain in their marriage and committing infidelity "out of character?" I feel like this just supports the idea that extenuating circumstances can cause someone to betray their morals and values…that it only takes the right combination of emotions and circumstances, as I’ve been saying.

I would say verbal abuse in response to infidelity is much more understandable, but when you have the option not to, neither infidelity nor verbal abuse can be justified.. But I would be lying if I said I had strong feelings about the subject though, when honestly I’m almost hoping BH will lash out at me at some point, if it would help him.

.

Did I step over the line? Yeah, I did. I didn't expect it at all…In retrospect it was a mistake to even accept her initial offer to have dinner together, which was something we often did during the short time we dated (poor college students, you know?)

Good introspection.

No, I never told my girlfriend. Maybe it was a rationalization on my part that it was close to cheating but not really that bad. I could have stayed that night, had sex, breakfast in the morning, etc. But I didn't

I could have snuck out to the wilderness every night I was away and fucked my AP’s brains out. But I didn’t. "Only" flirting and sexting…I still broke my husband’s heart and trust into a million pieces. I thought I could walk right up to the line and not cross it, but then I failed to protect our marriage. The fallout has been more horrific than I could have imagined… That’s what matters, not what I didn’t do that would be worse. The cost of the damage is not worth preserving one’s ego so you can believe you’re a "good person" who "could never" do that, not like those other, morally deficient cheaters who don’t love or respect themselves or their partners !

[This message edited by Ghostie at 9:52 PM, Monday, December 1st]

Great question. I am a person who’s actions and beliefs prior to infidelity lead to infidelity. I think I am qualified to advise others on what NOT to do and believe if they want to avoid committing infidelity. As for what TO DO instead to prevent infidelity… That’s what I’m here still trying to learn as much as I can about, and put into practice. I can parrot back what more successful, formerly wayward (as in, now has a lengthy history of fidelity after infidelity) individuals have advised me. But I wouldn’t say that I am an expert with any sort of credibility.

So it’s okay for you to tell people that say they wouldn’t cheat on their spouse, that they are just like you and everybody else that cheats. But you also get angry when you misinterpret what people write (like you accuse other people of doing, misinterpreting what you write) and you think they are saying you are just like every other WS, even when that is NOT what they wrote or even implied. All of that is perfectly logical to you? You don’t see some possible flaws in the way you think and respond?

Thanks for your response. I don't believe furthering a dialogue is of benefit to either of us.

And then

I was merely noting the irony that you felt one of my comments was so unredeemable the rest of my posts were worth dismissing. I believe given the reason you are on this forum pointing out that irony is warranted. I personally don't I personally don't believe anyone is irredeemable and am happy to own up that comment being from a place of anger and generally unhelpful.

I can't read your mind, but it sure looked to me like that comment was from satisfaction, not anger. Satisfaction that the wayward's messed up life met your conception of justice (and that her BH was "made whole" which he was not). I understand anger, it's your pride that has no place on this forum.

Who said you are irredeemable? Not me. That would have been ironic!

[This message edited by Pippin at 10:55 PM, Monday, December 1st]

Prettylies,

What I am saying is that we are all human, and none of us are immune to infidelity. Again, I am not saying that you have committed infidelity like me, or even that you necessarily will, or that you’re inherently a "cheater" or a bad person. I am saying that it is a dangerous thing to believe you are incapable of infidelity, because it can result in letting your guard down against infidelity, as it did for me.

I fully believe you when you say you hold these values and you respect yourself and your husband. I’m glad that you do. I’m just saying, even if they seem like a impervious defense against cheating… they probably are not enough.

I get angry when people read what I say and then tell me I believe, think, do, etc. the opposite, or things that I didn’t say at all, as if they know me better than I know myself. Like if I say "this is what happened when I committed infidelity, and there are benefits to examining that, and I don’t harbor an ounce of blame for my BH," and then someone responds with "You are blame shifting and refusing to take responsibility to make sure it doesn’t happen again… Stop being defensive..!" That’s frustrating!

The cost of the damage is not worth preserving one’s ego so you can believe you’re a "good person" who "could never" do that, not like those other, morally deficient cheaters who don’t love or respect themselves or their partners !

I think you might be projecting a bit here. There are definitely cheaters who are "morally deficient" shitbricks who don't respect anyone or anything and don't care at all who they hurt along the way. A few have come here trying to figure out how to manipulate their BS into staying with them with no interest at all in geniune reconciliation.

If I suspected you were one of those people I wouldn't be wasting my time.

I thought I could walk right up to the line and not cross it, but then I failed to protect our marriage.

What about protecting yourself, your own ego? That's why I bolted that night. It had nothing to do with my girlfriend and everything to do with me protecting my own self-worth.

There are definitely cheaters who are "morally deficient" shitbricks who don't respect anyone or anything and don't care at all who they hurt along the way.

Sure there are. That doesn’t mean having good morals and respect for yourself and your partner makes you immune from committing infidelity.

What about protecting yourself, your own ego? That's why I bolted that night. It had nothing to do with my girlfriend and everything to do with me protecting my own self-worth.

Sometimes people have conflicting internal interests, or their self-worth isn’t as high as they think it is. That’s why it can be shocking and induce guilt and shame if you go and do it anyway.

For me, I thought I had a ton of self-respect. I thought I had control over myself. I thought, "I am starving for conversation at home. I deserve to sit and enjoy these chats with this person… He’s just a friend. This is fine. I wouldn’t cheat on my husband; I love him. I wouldn’t hurt him like that." And then those hours-long chats turned into emotional intimacy, and all the sudden I was at the line, where I shouldn’t have given him my number and brought that inappropriate relationship home with me. But I was attached then, and I rationalized my way past the boundary. And then I went a little further. And then I couldn’t stop, even when I wanted to; I became addicted to the attention and validation AP (somewhat sporadically) was giving me, the whole time filled with guilt. Then after D-Day came all the shame.

What allowed you to continue talking to your ex when you were partnered? What allowed you to accept her dinner invitation, and then kiss her and gets handsy? You walked up to the line and then crossed it too. That didn’t violate your morals and sense of self-respect?

I don’t want you to feel shame about it. I just want to change your perspective on the "I could never do it" aspect. You did it. Why?

What allowed you to continue talking to your ex when you were partnered? What allowed you to accept her dinner invitation, and then kiss her and gets handsy? You walked up to the line and then crossed it too. That didn’t violate your morals and sense of self-respect?

We were still students at the same school and later had another class together. I accepted her invitation because I had nothing better to do that night and because, frankly, I was young and stupid.

I didn't initiate any of what happened that night. She came on to me, passionately. It surprised me the hell out of me. I was so overwhelmed that for a few moments I couldn't think straight. That's when the alarm bells went off.

That didn’t violate your morals and sense of self-respect?

Of course it did. It's why I ran out the door as fast as I did. BTW, she was so pissed off about it we never spoke again. Go figure, right?

I became addicted to the attention and validation AP (somewhat sporadically) was giving me, the whole time filled with guilt.

This is what you're going to have to unravel for yourself. A need for external validation may very well be the most common cause for infidelity. It's an unhealthy need, don't you think?

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting a little external validation in life. Whether it's getting good grades, a 4.0 review from your CO, promotions, whatever. When that need leads one to blow-up their lives... well, I'm sure you get it.

This is probably what your husband wants to know and understand. Why did this need lead you down Infidelity Lane? What are you doing to unravel this issue?

Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own happiness and well-being. I think it's entirely possible that your traumatic childhood abuse from your step-father lead you to accept some untruths about yourself. Unlearning those untruths won't be easy. It never is.

As a side note, the #1 cause of childhood abuse is step-parents.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 12:31 AM, Tuesday, December 2nd]

I think that any grown adult that pretends to be perfect and claim that they have never done something they are not proud of, is full of shit.

I am very far from perfect, and I have done things that I am not proud of. I have also worked with professionals to try to understand some things better, and be the best person I can be. And when I needed to, I went back to professionals to try to help me figure out some more things. I am always seeking to grow, and believe that just because I am a human that seeks knowledge, wisdom and growth, I I will always still be a work in progress until the day I die.

So there is a lot of work I’ve done, addressing my issues, that I knew about and discovered in therapy, and understanding my values and what things are most important to me, and how to live a life in accordance to those values. The work I’ve done to try to be the kind of person I want to be, are why I am not just talking out my ass when I say I would not cheat on someone I am supposed to be in a monogamous relationship with. The work I’ve done taught me how to have good boundaries so that I avoid the problem, by avoiding certain situations. Not just with the temptation to cheat, but "avoiding the problem by avoiding the situation" applies to many areas of life.

My integrity and boundaries aren’t even really about my partner, they are about me and the kind of person I choose to be, regardless of anything external in my life.

But that’s just me and how I work. And you can’t tell me that who I choose to be in accordance to my own values, is not who I really am, that I am just a set of circumstances away from cheating like you did. You don’t like it when you feel like people act like they know more about you, than you know about yourself, so don’t do it to me.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but… I feel like you are describing a situation in which you a) let your guard down, and b) violated (however briefly) those values that you had. This is the vulnerability that comes with believing yourself incapable of committing infidelity that I’m talking about. It’s really important to stay vigilant so we don’t find ourselves in these compromising situations. "I could/would never" lulls you into a false sense of security. It’s a cloud around your watchtower.

It was really hard for me to come to grips with this, but it was necessary. I don’t feel ashamed anymore about admitting I definitely could do it. I don’t think anyone else should either. Now I feel empowered to actively take precautions against it.

I’m not going to spend so much one-on-one time with anyone such that I can develop that level of intimacy again. I am examining what went on in each of my instances of infidelity, and noting correlating factors that should alert me to increased risk, so I can monitor myself even more closely. I am re-focusing on my husband and my marriage and my family, as I value them and want to protect and nourish them. I am opting for honesty even if I don’t value it (yet?) and working towards making it habitual. I am working on my deeper whys and internal issues by myself and in therapy (or at least attempting to— my last several therapists sucked.)

Even after doing all these things, even after healing, even after (hopefully) decades of fidelity…I will still not believe myself incapable of infidelity. I do not want that vulnerability ever again. I don’t want it for anyone else, either.

[PLEASE, for the love of God, don’t respond to this with any variation of: "You’re not doing those things. You’re not taking accountability. You’re making excuses. You’re blame shifting. Stop being defensive. We’re just trying to help you."…Etc. You got major issues if you do.]

[This message edited by Ghostie at 1:23 AM, Tuesday, December 2nd]