SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am actually worried about her stability and possible actions right now. That's actually the real reason I want this thread deleted or privated. There is a part of me that worries that seeing some of the personal details I've posted here could trigger something. It has nothing to do with "hurting her feelings" it actually was a legit safety concern.

Also, isn't there basically nothing the cops can do if you just tell them that you're worried that so and so might do something especially if there's no kind of specific threat whatsoever?

As for those who have been asking I am unfortunately home alone right now but I've been spending most of my time talking on the phone with a few of my friends and my parents on the phone, who have been really supportive of course. I'm actually thinking about possibly going to visit my parents at their condo down in Florida for a little while. Weather down there sure beats the new York area these days.

Just out of curiosity, is there any real way to enforce NC these days? Obviously you can delete calls and texts and clear them from the recycle bin. And they could just go on Whatsapp or anything else.

I'm not saying I'm actually gonna do this I just wanted to know if it was really even possible.

Asc1226 gave you some tips, but end of the day there's no real way to "enforce" NC. If someone wants to continue cheating they'll find a way no matter what you do, and... cheaters are gonna cheat.

I agree with some of the others that it sounds like she wants to downplay and rugsweep the whole thing. Despite the tears and begging I think she thinks she runs the show. If you go along with it, I fear this is just a preview of your future with her.

Reconciling needs to be on your terms and your timeline. She does not call the shots. R is a very generous, fragile and undeserved gift. She needs to treat it as such, and be worthy of it. Right now she's definitely not.

That's not necessarily me endorsing R in your case. Just sayin'...

There's another comment made earlier in this thread that's still ringing in my ears, and of course we don't know, but it's possible this ain't her first rodeo. She's been pretty brazen about it.

There are apps you can get that can be setup to essential send you everything her phone does, every thing typed in. It’s not 100% cause when there’s a will there’s a way.
To give you done breathing room, I’d suggest you tell her she checks herself into an alcohol treatment center. One of the ones you stay at 24/7. Failure to comply means divorce right away. If she complies you’ll not immediately nuke the relationship.

You’re worried about her. I get that.

But there’s a saying you see a lot on this site:

Don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm.

Best wishes.

I am sorry she is not willing to leave. She is strong willed and appears to think she is in charge. She always gets what she wants. She wanted to have a secret bf on the side for fun, and not lose her relationship with you. How dare you impose consequences for her lies and deceit! You need to impose no contact and do not engage with her. Go about your own life. Get out with friends. Pursue your interests. Learn the phrase: "I’m sorry you feel that way".

Make it clear you are moving on and there is no going back. Don’t argue with her or try to explain. Become a gray rock. Long term you need to heal and even counseling for you to process this trauma and deal with the shock. You will get through this. The attitude she is showing you now is a harbinger or more infidelity and selfish acts in the future. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:51 AM, Saturday, January 17th]

Broken, if you own the house or apartment, it honestly is as simple as calling the police and having them escort her away because she is trespassing. I am quite sure her being a lawyer, she would not want to jeopardize having some sort of discipline.

I really like the idea of you going to see your parents. They will help ground you. I would even suggest having them up to stay with you for an extended vacation if they have the means.

As far as your question, "how could you not know"....I will tell you that we humans are crafty. We can really compartmentalize. It is scary I know.

But I am certain as you wade through these deep waters, your mind and heart and body will be analyzing everything....and I highly suspect you will start to remember things that were unnoticed before, but now you see as clues or red flags that point to this hidden life.

And your body will learn. You will be much wiser.

Peace ✌️

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 8:17 PM, Saturday, January 17th]

A lot of BS's question what's going on in their WW's mind.

You know what's going on in your WW's mind!

Now believe it!

Peace

Have you told her, calmly, that you believe she needs significant professional help to:

1) work through how she can tell you one thing,emotionally and desperately, and then tell her friend the exact opposite and also do the exact opposite with OM? That isn't a mistake, it's serious, it's disturbing and it has brought her entire character, values and/or mental health into question for you. Does she realize this?

2) gain control of her drinking problem.

And third, I would tell her something like "I have now come to the firm decision that the woman I am going to commit my life to is going to have established boundaries with men. She is not going to have close male friends, she is not going to hang out alone with men, she is not going to drink with men alone and certainly she is not going to a man's house alone to spend time. She will also be open to sharing her phone. I will have the same boundaries with women and my phone. Just based on this one idea for a foundation for a long term relationship, I do not think you are willing to commit to what I need. I believe you will say you will do it but you just proved that when you state it, it means nothing. And this is the minimum requirement. Point 1 and 2, much more difficult, are also required. I do not believe you will do these things for me, for us or even for yourself. Until you show me you can, I can't consider staying together. I care for you, I want you to get better, to figure this out and to get help. But your actions show I cannot trust your word alone. I am not going to be your doormat".

You might consider writing out some version of this and giving it to her so she can read, reread it and both of you can avoid fight flight stimuli. Then maybe you can discuss it calmly.

Fwiw, I saw Pogre's interpretation of why you might think she had sex with OM and his take was the only one I saw in her messages as well. But I agree with him, it is not a definitive yes that she did imo. As I said before, it's unusual if she hasn't but you had a reasonable explanation that perhaps she did not. Any new data on this?

Also, her messages with her friend read like another person, a brazen, bragging schoolgirl like quality. Almost like she is trying to impress her friend and shit talk. Frankly, she sounds like a young man trying to pump himself up to his buddy in those messages. Did you have the same sense of those texts? It felt really odd to me.

Trdd wrote:

Fwiw, I saw Pogre's interpretation of why you might think she had sex with OM and his take was the only one I saw in her messages as well. But I agree with him, it is not a definitive yes that she did imo.

Yeah, that's my take. I was reading those texts looking for the smoking gun and didn't quite see it. Tho I can see someone in a heightened state of anxiety interpreting it that way. I could see myself getting pretty excited about first reading that while my heart is pounding and my face was flushed. I still clearly remember that sick feeling in my stomach when I read some of my wife's texts with a friend shortly after d day. I wasn't thinking clearly at all. It was awful.

I really like your suggested talking points for OP as well.

I'd definitely want to know what, exactly, "Cuz no one is getting laid if they both look busted" means, tho. There would be some discussion and clarity about that for sure.

I also thought this alluded to possible sexual contact:

"WS's GF: "You have the right to be happy"
WS's GF: "Even if it's cheating until it's right"

What does "cheating" imply?

It’s clear his WGF is playing both men! He is making the right choice to separate.

No it's 100% confirmed. When I confronted I looked her dead in the eyes and said "ur cheating on me, admit it!". She stared blankly and I pressed her more until she finally said "yes, but it was only one time and we didn't have sex". She then goes back to the "I choose you and I want to make it work" line. I tell her that right now I don't trust her as far as I can throw her and that the only way I would even think about getting back together would be if she took a polygraph. She looks scared and says ok.

So I look her dead in the eyes again and I say "how many times?"

She hesitates again before saying "3 times". She hesitates again before she says "unless you mean just kissing then it was a lot more than that".

So that's how I finally got some truth.

Just for the record, the line about "nobody's getting laid" definitely didn't sit well, but this is what I perceived as the smoking gun.

WS's GF: "I guess"
WS's GF: "You have the right to be happy"
WS's GF: "Even if it's cheating until it's right"
WS's GF: "Just be happy you feel better. This shit had you hanging by a thread"

Yea that seemed like pretty irrefutable proof to me. But it doesn't matter, I got the confession straight from the horses mouth.

A lot has happened since the confrontation and I have a lot to update on, but I've just been going through it these past few days and haven't felt like I can do a lengthy post about it. But I just wanted to address this one question here - there is no more doubt, it's 100% confirmed.

I'll talk to you guys soon.

Sorry that pretty much the worst happened. I really am. I know how you feel. Mine went from "slept on the couch" to "one time" to "3 times" also. I didn't believe a fucking word by that point, but was able to somewhat confirm it was 3 times based on reading a conversation she had after d day with one of her friends. A friend who has since been cut out of our lives. I know exactly how you feel.

Take your time, man. We'll be here when you're ready.

[This message edited by Pogre at 12:04 AM, Sunday, January 18th]

And you're still together? How were you able to come back from that?

I was fully on the "this is over" train until she came to me last night. It was different from what I had seen from her in the last few days. I'm glad I read the article on guilt vs remorse. Up to this point I had some guilt from her but she was mixing it with darvo stuff.

In this instance I saw her come upstairs crying in a way I hadn't seen. It's like the fact that I really wanted her gone had finally sank in. She said through tears "I have no idea where I'm gonna go but if you really want me to leave I'll go". Then she was like "I thought I could fix it, but I think I messed it up too bad" and started crying again.

We talked for a little while. I told her maybe, that I'd think about it. She said she was desperate for any sign that there's a chance. I told her that it might be possible but that there was a lot of work to be done and I had no idea if she could ever earn my trust back at this point. She begged and said she would do anything for a second chance. She said if I gave it to her she would do anything. She accepted full responsibility for what happened and said she was so sorry that she had put me through this. There was no darvo stuff at all.

I said any road to recovery starts with sobriety and that I didn't just want her to get sober but also work some sort of program like AA. She reiterated that she would do anything and that she just didn't want to lose me.

I told her that I really liked the change in attitude she was showing and that it was at least making me open to the possibility. She promised that she was going to do everything she could to rebuild us and that she would show me everything with her actions. I said I couldn't wait to see it. She begged again and said "I promise that, if you give me a chance, you'll never regret it".

I don't know I feel absolutely insane for thinking this after everything she's put me through, but am I absolutely crazy to think R could actually still be a possibility here? Like even now I know it's remote and I'm waiting to see if she actually follows through on any of the things she said. But am I crazy to see a chance here where previously there had been zero? And, if there is, are there any recommendations on where I should go from here?

It is so hard to accept that a person you trusted and loved could do this. You need time because you are knee deep in the stages of grief. You are going to yo-yo through shock, bargaining, anger, disbelief, anger, and despair. Your body just took an emotional bullet in the back. Recovering from that takes time.
You probably need to see a dr for some temp meds for anxiety. It will help calm your nervous system down. You need to concentrate on nutrition, sleep and work. Do not use alcohol or other drugs. They don’t do anything but poison you. No matter where you are get outside if possible. Or the gym. Move your body. There are a lot of toxic hormones surging through your brain/body. You need exercise to help dissipate them.

Broken, be very careful of your own natural propensity to be a "rescuer". I know how hard it is. Here is one you love now begging and promising you so much. It may be genuine, I have no clue. But is it possible that it is just another tool in her bag of tricks to gain control of a situation that was drifting outside her control?

It was not that long ago she was naturally reveling in having two men in her life. And there is the journal. I know you read to us a bunch about what she said about OM. May I ask if there was an equal amount written about you? Or were you just kind of taken for granted as "being there"?

I hope there are people with more knowledge than I who can give you insight as to how to truly prove she is genuine. I will give you a few to consider.

1) Leave of absence from work and in-patient detox or equivalent.
2) 100% Break from OM - No contact.
3) 100% Break from that friend who was complicit.
4) 100% open phone policy.
5) All passwords for all socials open.
6) Maybe even delete all old accounts and start shared accounts.
7) Polygraph when needed.
8) Intensive Attachment Therapy

I honestly have no idea if this is good, but just some options.

But can she really ever give you a peaceful, exclusive, and securely attached relationship? Do you want to do the work to get there?

Or is there another woman out there, who would simply be devoted and content with being YOUR PERSON....naturally?

Yep. If she’ll "do anything" then she should be checking herself into an in patient treatment center. I wouldn’t bother talking about your relationship with her at this point. You have no idea what is real and what is manipulation. I think you need some time away from her to catch your breath and some time to really think this over and her stay at a facility will give you just that.

First and foremost take care of you. If she is truly remorseful you should see consistent actions over time to prove she can be a trustworthy party. The hard part is maintaining the effort over weeks, months and years. Empathy for your pain. Detox and working on herself to become a better person, a change of attitude, regardless of the outcome of your relationship. She has to want to become a better person for herself. Always value yourself. Watch her actions and not her words.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:54 AM, Sunday, January 18th]

I believe that my cheating ex GF had a little obsession. I saw some obsessive behaviour and I don't think I can still 100% categorize what it was, but part of it was keeping the doors with guys open and her being the one who has to define their relationship. Basically keeping them on the back burner, checking their interest in her, from time to time throwing them some breadcrumbs, a little date if they were loosing interest, etc. Many years after we separated, she was very upset when I got engaged (I know, because her mom was friends with my mom), although she was in a relationship herself and many years since then she still stalkes my wife's SM accounts from time to time.

It looks like your GF may be in a similar headspace. From what you wrote, she was able to pull off hours long, drama filled stand ups to keep you hooked, while she was in a seemingly ice cold way arranging your replacement. And now, when she knows that you are ready to let her go, she is panicking. It makes me wonder how much of her new found longing for you is simply not wanting to be the one getting dumped? Not being in control? Do you think that she would have a shred of mercy for your destroyed heart and soul if she was the one dumping you for OM?

She said, she is ready to move out. I think it would be smart to let her do it, tell her that you need space, tell her that she should get sober and join AA and reevaluate in a few months. If she fails at sobering, looses interest in fighting for you or goes back to OM, you will be able to just block her out of your life and move on without repeating this toxic cycle.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 2:51 PM, Sunday, January 18th]

And you're still together? How were you able to come back from that?

Well... it was pretty similar to this.

I was fully on the "this is over" train until she came to me last night. It was different from what I had seen from her in the last few days.

When I'd had enough of being dicked around with her dragging her feet about going full NC, and with the aforementioned reading of her messages with her ex friend, I started calling divorce lawyers right in front of her and set up appointments with each one of them.

She broke down in a way I'd never seen her do in over 27 years. She begged, literally begged for another chance. Begging is another thing I'd never seen her do before. She dropped her AP like a hot rock, blocked him on everything, put in for a location transfer at work (AP was a co worker), and dumped any friends who were complicit in the cover up or played cheerleaders. One was a best friend she'd known since high school.

She changed on a very fundamental level almost overnight. A change that I feared wouldn't stick. I figured she might keep it up for a few weeks, maybe a couple of months, tops, but here we are 8 months later (9 months since d day) and not a single slip up or reverting to old behavior at all. She's doing counseling. She despises AP now. Then he got fired. She's been putting up with my mood swings, anger and grief almost flawlessly. I have her passcodes and free, unfettered access to to all of her devices and total transparency where before she used to make a big deal out of her "privacy." She's still in counsleing. Now she tells me if a guy so much as says "hi" to her and makes sure to let me know she shuts down any attempt at even innocent banter.

We've been together for over 28 years now all told. We have a son together. He's grown and out of the house, but we do have that also. There's a lot of history, and damnit, I still love her. I'm telling you man, I know how you feel. I gave her the second chance, but with the condition that I still might leave if something doesn't feel right. I told her that even if she does everything perfectly I might still not be able to get over it, and that was a condition she was willing to accept.

Things are much better between us now. In many ways better than even before the affair. We both had some pretty serious issues that needed worked on. I wasn't always exactly an angel either. You know about my drinking. That went on for over half of our marriage and she stuck it out with me. I think there was still some residual resentment over a decade later that she hadn't let go of and could partially have been used as a (poor) justification for her to conduct her affair. Our marriage wasn't in a good spot and needed some work on both sides. Work that we're both doing right now. If it weren't for the affair I'd say we have almost an ideal relationship now. We should have done this years ago.

Make no mistake tho, I refused to accept any responsibility for her shitty choices. Yes, I own my part in the troubles within our relationship, but THERE'S NO EXCUSE FOR HAVING AN AFFAIR, EVER, and she acknowledges that.

I'm just now thinking we might actually make it, but as you've discovered, infidelity is a real mind fuck. We're 9 months post d day and I still have some rough days. It hasn't been easy, but she's been doing everything in her power to make a compelling case for us to stay together. She's a rare example of early remorse and putting in the work to fix things. Our old marriage is dead. She killed it. It'll never be the same, but in our case that might actually a good thing in many ways.

Right now you're still in a state of shock, and it's too early to know if she's going to be a good candidate for R, but these early signs are hopeful if that's what you want. It's also too early to know if you have the constitution to be able to handle getting over it. Some people just can't. I've been here long enough to see that many WS's aren't like mine. Trickle truth, backsliding, breaking NC, and continued secrecy is very common. Plus some people (both BS and WS) just aren't cut out for R. For those reasons, despite the fact that things seem to be working for me, I'm still hesitant to jump on the R bandwagon for others. It's dirty, it's hard, and it's a rough ride. It's not smooth sailing. You have a lot to consider and a lot to look out for.

No, you're not crazy to see a chance, but unfortunately you'll need to be vigilant if you give her that chance. We've seen too many times when a WS will swear on the lives of their children only to break trust again or flat out lie to a BS' face.

Sorry for the wall of text, but there are a few elements of your story that are eerily similar to mine. Right now you just need some time to process. Don't make any promises or permanent decisions. I think so far you're handling it well as far as not folding and agreeing to unconditional R right now. She deserves a little uncertainty right now. Keep reading up on infidelity. Keep reading articles from the healing library. Read others' stories, ask questions and even Google up info on the net in general, there's a wealth of information out there on the subject, and you'll see much of it all agrees. You'll see a lot of the same advice repeated over and over. You'll also see some that's contradictory, but for the most part most therapists and help gurus agree on the basics. The consensus here on this site hasn't let me down, tho. I started posting here around may or June if you want to look up my threads and catch up on my story. It might give you some idea of what to look for in a remorseful spouse.

Keep posting here and use us to vent to if you need it. Just typing stuff out has helped me a lot. You're going to be on the emotional roller coaster for quite a while. One day you'll be feeling great and the next you'll be devastated. Sometimes all in the same day. Hoping the best for you, bro. No matter which way you end up going.

[This message edited by Pogre at 6:55 PM, Sunday, January 18th]