"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

sewardak posted 1/20/2018 21:25 PM

For those who don't believe in ploygraphs then How do you know if you have the truth? If you say if the marriage has come to that we'll how do you know if the WS is telling the truth?

Geranium posted 1/20/2018 22:07 PM

If you can no longer trust your spouse, if you feel permanently wary and unsettled, and live without any sense of security or confidence - maybe it almost doesn’t matter whether he is telling the truth or not.

Sometimes, when something is broken, it simply cannot be glued back together again.

This is no way to live. But only you can decide where - and when - you draw the line.

EDarcy posted 1/20/2018 22:35 PM

For a betrayed, a polygraph is less risky than relying on "the word" of someone who has already shown themselves untrustworthy. A polygraph puts the risk on the cheaters shoulders. Relying on "the word" of a cheater puts the risk on the betrayed's shoulders. A truly remorseful spouse wants to take that burden onto themselves, as opposed to expecting their betrayed to carry it. Either way there is a risk, it is just a matter of who primarily will carry it. My husband being willing and wanting to relieve me of the burden of carrying the risk of reconciliation, in any way he can, helps pave a foundation of safety, which is a first step on a long, hard journey.

SisterMilkshake posted 1/20/2018 22:45 PM

It is called taking a leap of faith, sewardak, at least for me it was. It is a risk and there is no way that we can circumvent that risk even by having our spouses taking a polygraph. I have to have a certain amount of trust in my FWH and I have to trust myself, also.

Besides, I personally would not be reassured by a polygraph test as I feel they aren't reliable. How did people reconcile their marriages after infidelity before there were polygraph tests available? It was done successfully.

My point is, if I feel that the only way I am going to be comfortable with my FWH going forward was to have him take a polygraph than that is the time for us to part ways. That is a dealbreaker for me. I don't expect others to feel the same, but I am glad that there are others that do.

sassylee posted 1/21/2018 00:46 AM

Well if a polygraph helps a BS make that leap of faith, then all the power to them. If a polygraph helps them file for D - same power.

Bobbi_sue posted 1/21/2018 06:12 AM

For those who don't believe in ploygraphs then How do you know if you have the truth?

You don't. You never know in this world if you have the truth. After being cheated on by two husbands, one hard pill that I swallowed is that I will never trust a human being 100% again in my life. And if they passed a polygraph test, that would not have any influence on how much I would trust them.

Actions over time have an effect. My H appears to be completely transparent. I know where his "book of passwords" is and he has told me that I can check up on him any time, any place for the rest of our lives. It has been 11 years since the A and so far he has made good on all of that. Has he told me all details about his A? No, is there more I would have liked to know and might even still like to know? Yes.

But it is what it is. How do you know when you have the truth? I guess you don't. But I'd rather just admit that than go with the false confidence I have the truth, based on a test based on pseudoscience, and the biggest reason it works as well as it does is because of the Placebo effect of people "believing" it works.

So much emphasis is based on getting the truth, and yet nobody gets all of the story. I would rather try to look it as whatever I did find out for sure happened, maybe multiply that by ten to assume that is more likely what happened, and then ask myself if I can live with WHAT HAPPENED (my H cheated). I base my decision to stay with my H more on the way he was after D-day and how he has been since then, rather than focusing on the details of his A. I'm not saying I did not care about the details. I did get as many as I possibly could get but realized a point comes when you have to accept the A happened and either decide you can live with that or not.

And as I said I will never trust another human being 100% again. So if my H should cheat again, I would immediately divorce him. I can't control him but I can still control myself and decide what to do in certain circumstances.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 6:15 AM, January 21st (Sunday)]

sewardak posted 1/21/2018 07:41 AM

i never asked for a poly, understood the circumstances around what happened so didn't think that the worst happened (sex) but if I found out otherwise that would be a detail I would divorce over. I think what ppl are trying to find is the dealbreaker things. that's why I would do it.
if I assumed 10 times more than what happened I would be done. Some of the truths I would like to know about would be crossing my line in the sand of staying.
The continued lying is a line in the sand too, maybe that is what others are after in the polygraph.

[This message edited by sewardak at 7:41 AM, January 21st (Sunday)]

HouseOfPlane posted 1/21/2018 08:26 AM

At present WH is extremely angry...

If I took and falsely failed a poly, I guess I would be angry too.

But angry at who? That poly would have been between me and the polygrapher. He would be the one deserving the silent treatment, not you. I know my credibility with you is already zero.

Unless I was working to manipulate you. Then I would let my righteous anger rise like a fiercesome storm at the injustice of it all!

I bet he googles on how to beat a poly this week. Probably did before the last one.

I've had a poly, by the way. Had it for a security clearance. Overall unpleasant experience, especially if you think you are in control. You are not.

NoMercy posted 1/21/2018 08:49 AM

Regardless of what anyone thinks about polygraphs (not surprised at ALL that he lied on his poly) the truth is, the guy is a serial cheater.

This is from the OP's signature line, so it seems a bit ridiculous to discredit a polygraph test because it showed he was lying - especially when he has a 'rap sheet' like this one:

D-day of EA Jun 2006; D-day of PA Aug 2016; D-day of 8yr OEA & multiple cyber affairs Dec 2017.

I mean, let's get real here. He's been at it since at LEAST 2006. How much more lying and cheating does he have to be caught at before you can no longer assume the poly was "inaccurate?"

TimelessLoss posted 1/21/2018 09:40 AM

Cujochurch,

I've always viewed a polygraph examination as a trust building opportunity. Even if it leads to a parking lot confession. Because trust only has a chanced of being rebuilt if there is honesty.

Is he lying? I don't know that for sure. The polygraph is often erroneously called a lie detector test. Your post hit on a closer depiction: his answers indication deceit. I would say that a poly is an indicator of deception. And that deception could be a lie. The deception could be that he omitted telling you something akin to the poly questions.

He went in confident. But did he know the questions that were going to be asked. He really shouldn't have. There may have been something buried way back in 1992 or more recent. Something that didn't rise to the level of "sexual intercourse" as defined by the polygraph examiner.

I think you can have confidence that he was deceptive about something. It is back on him now. He could revisit his timeline, add more detail, add any instance of when he crossed any boundary. Dig deeper, work harder, move mountains, to show by his actions that he may be worthy of your consideration.

I expect that if he had "passed" the poly that you would still be wondering if you should trust him, still wondering if her had told you everything. Having said that, I still believe that a poly is a valuable indicator.

Satine posted 1/21/2018 10:06 AM

Not sure if others have posted this already but as a mental health / psychology expert please don't trust a polygraph. It can only tell you if you're feeling anxious, not if you are lying. I get you are asking about alternatives but please don't place decisions about your marriage on a flawed method like this. That's all I wanted to say.

SisterMilkshake posted 1/21/2018 10:16 AM

Thanks for sharing, Satine.

Another thing I would like to point out that here at SI this is a relatively new concept that one must get their WS to take a poly before you can safely reconcile. When I joined, getting your WS to take a polygraph was not pushed like it is now. It was maybe recommended (not by me) sometimes but it wasn't the big "go to" answer like it is now.

TimelessLoss posted 1/21/2018 10:33 AM

Yeah, better to rely on what a cheater says, right?

But more positively, and back to my pervious post, ultimately it comes down to him and his actions.

The poly relies on the physiological reaction of the subject. Measuring, if you will, the physiological difference in "anxiety" from the base line innocuous questions to the exam questions.

Are they 100% absolutely reliable? No, they can be beaten by someone trained to do so. And remember what I said: it doesn't detect lies. It detects deception.

Cujo, as a previous poster said, you have ample reason to cut him loose based on what you do know and what he has admitted. A credit to you that you were willing to see if you could gain trust through the poly. Even if you want to discount the poly results entirely, you have every reason not to trust him. And that would have been the case even if he passed the poly.

Bobbi_sue posted 1/21/2018 10:50 AM

I'd take the chance that it's wrong over the smaller likelihood of a repeated liar's word being true any day especially if their story just doesn't match up.

Yeah, better to rely on what a cheater says, right?

To me these arguments don't make sense. If there is no way to rely on getting the truth, we have to accept there is no way to get it rather than picking what seems like the lesser of two evils.

If your spouse tells you a story that makes no sense, there is a 99% + chance he is LYING! That is MORE RELIABLE than a lie detector test, but it seems members here keep pushing for a 70% accurate (maybe on a good day) test over what is OBVIOUS and inside yourself, you ALREADY KNOW. This is backward thinking. Some want a test that is less reliable than what they see right in front of their own eyes, to "prove" that what they are seeing is right. I would say go for it if there was some reason to believe this test would "prove" anything. But it doesn't.

There are still ways we can find out SOME things but not all. It usually involves getting access to their computers, phones, or whatever to see what kind of communications they had or are possibly still having with an OP or people who know the OP. Using a GPS and other spy items can help if you are currently suspicious of your spouse's actions or want "proof" of what they are, or are not doing. You still can't get everything, but whatever you get by these "spying" methods is far more accurate than either relying on the WS to simply tell you the truth, or relying on a polygraph test.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 10:53 AM, January 21st (Sunday)]

Bobbi_sue posted 1/21/2018 11:02 AM

@Sewardak:

I assumed 10 times more than what happened I would be done.

I just pulled that number 10 times out of the air to make my point. There is some point it would have been a deal breaker for me too. I'm just saying that I assumed there were ugly details beyond what I knew or would ever know, and quite frankly I think that is most likely the case for all of us, lie detector test or not.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 11:04 AM, January 21st (Sunday)]

MadOldBat posted 1/21/2018 11:18 AM

So sorry ((((Cujo)))).

I would be equally as concerned regarding the defensive silent treatment, as the polygraph test results indicating deceptions.

We don't have reputable polygraphers in the UK.
It isn't really an option.
I can only really go on "gut" feelings......
I think my STBXWH is still lying.

What do you feel?
This shit is so distressing!
Hugs and strength to you.

MOB x

SisterMilkshake posted 1/21/2018 11:27 AM

Yeah, better to rely on what a cheater says, right?

If you are reconciling, than yes, you must rely on what your FWS is saying. Otherwise, what is even the point of reconciling? That is why if I felt I had to polygraph my FWH it would be a dealbreaker for me. I can't live my life like that.

If there is no way to rely on getting the truth, we have to accept there is no way to get it rather than picking what seems like the lesser of two evils.

Exactly.

Are they 100% absolutely reliable? No, they can be beaten by someone trained to do so.

I lied on a polygraph and I passed. I wasn't trained to beat it (back then, there wasn't even internet). I fully expected that they would tell me I failed. I was surprised that I passed. No, I am not bragging about lying and passing a poly, but it is a factual statement that I am sharing and why I have no faith in polygraphs.

eta: To add a few sentences to clarify.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 11:31 AM, January 21st (Sunday)]

smokenfire posted 1/21/2018 11:29 AM

Hi CC,

Sorry you find yourself here, it really sucks. What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissodance I'm not sure how it's spelled, but I know what it is. It's where you and your brain believed he was person A. You had strongly held beliefs about who he was with you. It was your reality. Now, your entire world has been turned upside down and your brain is literally screaming trying to make your reality and actual reality line up. Look into how to handle/recover from this. It will help you to settle and think more clearly.

The biggest mistake I made in my life was being hopesick. I kept hope alive, that he would change, that he would be a good husband. It made me stay for twenty five years exposing myself and my children to his toxicity. don't make that same mistake. He constantly tells you who he wants you to think he is, but he is literally showing you who he is daily. The fact that he refuses to leave shows you plainly that your needs do not matter, have not mattered and will not matter.

It's time to take off the rose colored glasses and crush them :(

SeeksTruth posted 1/21/2018 11:55 AM

Are they 100% absolutely reliable? No, they can be beaten by someone trained to do so.

And sociopaths.

nekonamida posted 1/21/2018 11:57 AM

If your spouse tells you a story that makes no sense, there is a 99% + chance he is LYING! That is MORE RELIABLE than a lie detector test, but it seems members here keep pushing for a 70% accurate (maybe on a good day) test over what is OBVIOUS and inside yourself, you ALREADY KNOW.

I completely agree with this but not many BS are willing to act with that uncertainty. And what about a serial cheater who has hid their tracks for decades? 70% is still better than dealing with the uncertainty for some people. Choosing to R while feeling like you're not sure or getting a D when you're not sure just doesn't sit well with a lot people.

I think the issue here is it doesn't bother me if someone chooses not to use a polygraph after considering it for whatever reason but you seem to have some issue with the fact that some people use them and some people here have also felt a lot better having done so. This thread isn't about polygraph accuracy. It's about Cujo and how Cujo wants to give her WS one more chance and try it again before she thinks about D.

I don't see anything wrong with doing absolutely everything you can to be sure of R/D. Hell, break out the crystals, pray to ghosts, and throw money in the garden if that makes you feel better and brings you closer to a decision you feel good about. What's wrong with supporting people who want to do it?