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Finally! Therapists that get what a BS goes through.

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BeingheldbyJesus posted 9/1/2018 11:28 AM

Shellofme- Thank you so much for sharing! It really spoke to me. It's how I feel. And that helped validate my feelings. WS just cannot comprehend what they have done to us. Three years out and I still mourn all I lost. I will never trust him and that is so sad. I trust NO ONE. Not even me. I trusted in him and I was wrong. I just feel so alone. I can't confide in the one I felt had my back and cared about me. No matter what he says, I just don't believe he is capable of real love nor honesty. I don't even waste my time communicating my feelings to him any longer. What is the point?

And, the card thing has been a big one for me. But, I don't have those kinds of feelings for him any longer any way. My life is just so pathetic. No love. Oh, he claims to love me but I don't feel that way about him. No sex. I rushed into it too soon and I just can't any longer. I hate it.

But, thanks again for posting those links.

whoami62 posted 9/2/2018 16:35 PM

Wow, thank you so much for sharing this ! It was such a relief to listen to someone who actually gets it
I feel less like there is something wrong with me for not being able to move forward in this

shellofme posted 9/7/2018 10:03 AM

BeingheldbyJesus:Thank you for letting me know this was helpful to you. I also found it helpful to have my feelings of betrayal trauma validated. I am so sorry, but I didn't see your post 1st. I will respond to you with another post.

whoami62:I am glad listening to this brought you some relief.

I feel less like there is something wrong with me for not being able to move forward in this
There is nothing wrong with your feelings! I read your post titled
New here, husband cheated on me
Your husband's affair being with an employee, and connected to your livelihood, was another level of betrayal. If I understood correctly, he met her on a porn site, and brought her to the country to become an employee?! You'd even had her over for dinner. What a violation! I am so sorry.

You are not even a year out from your DDay. You have to remind yourself that you are going through a trauma, and for most people that takes over your life. That's a normal reaction to a trauma, but it is temporary (it's true it usually takes years to recover from the various pieces of a trauma, but if we are lucky enough to live a long life, it is temporary in the big scheme of things).

I found the part about how long the BS healing takes being connected to how much the BS has to reprocess everything very helpful. When you've been deceived for years, you have more reprocessing to do. This is true whether you R with your WS, or not.

Have you read everything available to you in the healing library? There is extremely helpful material there. The good news is: you found this to listen to (I wish I had this available to listen to when I was closer to my DDay, and that's why I posted it), and this website. There is a lot of support and wisdom available to you here.

Regarding the porn connection in your husband's affair:
Is your husband still using porn? It turned into an addiction for my FWH, and it had a huge negative impact on our marriage, and it eventually became a piece that contributed to his wayward thinking and WS behavior IRL. There is a website that has been of tremendous help to both of us regarding porn addiction (I didn't even realize porn could become an addiction), but I need to get MOD approval to post it on SI.

The link to this podcast was MOD Approved. You can't post links on SI without MOD approval. I will ask a MOD if I can post that website link. Meanwhile, if you haven't already, search online for how porn changes your brain. It was very helpful to me, and to my FWH to learn about how porn can change your brain (like a drug), how addictive it is (like a drug), and how porn addicts become desensitized to many forms of inappropriate, and even immoral, behavior (including cheating).

I'm not suggesting porn addiction is the CAUSE of why anyone commits infidelity (the decision to cheat is all on the WS), but many believe that using porn is in itself a form of infidelity (I am in that camp), and there is research that's shown it's almost always harmful to healthy relationships and sex with a partner IRL.

I was very lucky that my FWH quit looking at porn on my DDay, (Details of his PA made us realize that porn was connected). It still took many months of him not looking at it for him to start to feel differently though.

Take care of yourself and read as much as you can.

shellofme posted 9/7/2018 10:49 AM

I just read your story in the My Story section. I am so sorry for what you've gone through. Your husband's affair was also with an employee and connected to your family's livelihood. Did I understand correctly that your husband's affair ended in July of 2015, your DDay was in November of 2015, but there was TT after that? The day the last lie was revealed is the day to count as the beginning of the end to the infidelity. The TT sets you back to square one, or for many of us it was worse than square one, because it felt like trying to get up after being so injured already. I wish all WS were capable of telling the whole truth right away, because TT severely damages the BS further, sets back the healing clock, and of course any chance of R. Of course, we know that most WS do not tell the whole truth right away, and that extends the BS' pain and suffering.

I will never trust him and that is so sad. I trust NO ONE. Not even me. I trusted in him and I was wrong. I just feel so alone. I can't confide in the one I felt had my back and cared about me. No matter what he says, I just don't believe he is capable of real love nor honesty. I don't even waste my time communicating my feelings to him any longer. What is the point?
That sounds so sad, and life doesn't have to continue to be like that. It was helpful when the therapist on the podcast spoke about how damaging the betrayal is to the BS' sense of self, and even trusting herself/himself!
No love. Oh, he claims to love me but I don't feel that way about him. No sex. I rushed into it too soon and I just can't any longer. I hate it.
I'm not clear on your situation. Are you staying in your marriage with R being off the table? You're not communicating your feelings to him any more; you don't believe he is capable of love or honesty. It sounds like you don't believe R is possible with your husband, and/or that you don't want to R?

SuckaNoMore posted 9/7/2018 15:53 PM

I liked it, thanks for sharing. It was difficult at times to listen them both constantly say husband, you would think not only as counsellors but by using a podcast they would attempt to reach as broad an audience as possible and avoid that gender bias.

shellofme posted 9/7/2018 17:51 PM

I hear you. Their gender bias (and assuming marriage) bothered me too, and I'm a female BS with a FWH.

I should have posted a warning about that. I apologize.
Despite that, I'm glad you got something positive. There is not enough material out there (particularly free), about betrayal trauma. This is the best I've found. Please let me know if you find something better.

marji posted 9/7/2018 18:33 PM

Shellofme Wanted to add my thank you for posting about the Marnie Bleecker podcasts. I listened with my H and found her very clear, very helpful. I have been passing on your word here on SI.

I had previously read all there was Googable by Omar Minwalla, the psychologist that MB trained with so there was much overlap. But she has a very forceful yet gentle way of conveying the picture and in part two she gives advice on ways to heal; his articles do not offer that.

There was a lot hear that I thought very important for my H to hear.

And yes, amazing to find something useful that was also free and easy to access.

So much thank again.

gmc94 posted 9/9/2018 17:07 PM

what can we do to get this in the healing library?

I'm SOOOOO grateful for these - listened to part 1 yesterday with WH
Today I watched a youtube of Ms. Breeker lecturing other behav health professionals - reiterates what's in the podcast.

I'm simultaneously bummed that I am just now hearing it.... Was still super helpful, but really wish I'd been able to listen when I first joined SI in Feb (just a couple of weeks after this was first posted), may have helped avoid some really bad behaviors (self harm anyone?). I don't check the general forum so much, and suspect there are others in this boat as well.

Do we just email the mods?

OneInTheSame posted 9/10/2018 01:14 AM

I wish the first therapist any betrayed dealt with addressed them(the betrayed) like she does in Part 1.

Yeah, and as someone else said of part 2, if my wife listened to this, will the discussion of gas-lighting ring a bell? Will the other things that they discussed turn on a light for her? Or will she feel it covers old territory, she's heard it all before . . .without really really understanding it.

These were really good . . . but at almost 3 years out, painful. I wish it were so easy to find a good IC, MC, and to get the process underway, but like many here, my experience has not been that smooth.

shedtears posted 9/10/2018 14:14 PM

Thank you for posting this! I just listened to both of them, and shed more tears. They describe what I am going through so well. I am going to bring these to my therapist.

shellofme posted 9/11/2018 08:24 AM

I'm pleased to know this helping so many BS, and WS. You're all so welcome, and thanks for letting me know it's been helpful.

marji: I didn't think to google MB's mentor. Thanks for the idea. I'm glad it helped you for your H to listen. It also helped me that my H listened, and that the 2nd part of the podcast had some ideas about healing.

gmc94: That would be great if you ask a mod about it getting in the healing library. I don't know if anyone, besides me, has requested that. I was originally told that this post would have to get a lot of pages of responses to warrant it being put in the Healing Library. I believe it could help many new BS to find this sooner, and it being posted there seems like the only way on SI? It certainly would have helped me tremendously; that's why I posted it for others. I posted this in the General Section, b/c that's what the mod recommended, back when I asked for permission to post the link to this podcast. I don't know if it's okay to repost it somewhere else on SI. You could ask. . . Thanks for the youtube info.


I wish the first therapist any betrayed dealt with addressed them(the betrayed) like she does in Part 1.
Yeah, I do too. Hopefully the new wave of therapists will be educated from the betrayal trauma model, instead of the codependence model (which blames the BS for their 'part' that led to the WS' infidelity). I hear you about a therapist. My path to finding a great IC and MC has been littered with the codependence model types of therapists. Not only did that not help, it actually harmed: me, my FWH's progress, my marriage's chance of R, and the entire healing process. It leaves clients worse off than they were before they went to therapy! To add insult to injury, you then have to pay them! I'm not suggesting BS don't have work to do on themselves, but to say the behavior of a BS should be seen as a reason why the WS cheated? I do not agree with that quack therapy. That's the 'you shouldn't have worn that dress' mentality of blaming the victim. As far as the gaslighting piece is concerned: have you considered asking your wife to listen to it with you? You could pause and share how her gaslighting hurt you and your ability to trust and how you feel/felt?

shedtears: Please tell us what happens when you share this podcast with your therapist. I am curious. When I brought info to my IC, and our MCs, they were almost eye rolling about it. IMHO, when you are no longer open to new info and research, it's time to rethink your career.

Jimmy1962 posted 9/13/2018 08:42 AM

Shellofme- Thank you so much for sharing!
I was thrilled to listen to both podcasts.
My wife and both of my therapists tell me that I struggled because of family of origin issues (funny that I never ever had any issues until I found out about my wife and her lover) and they tell me that I do not think like other people. They say that I have ADD and OCD and that is causing me to ruminate and that I am having more difficulty than other people. My wife, after hearing the therapist has jumped on the bandwagon that says that I am borderline crazy. They all think that the affair was not all that devastating and that I am overreacting because I have problems.
Those podcasts made me feel normal. Not only do I have to deal with the devastation of the infidelity but I get to deal with everyone thinking something is wrong with me. They had me convinced that I was messed up. Those podcasts were me to a tee.
Thank you for making me feel normal.

PS I told my wife about the podcasts and she immediately wanted to know who they were by and what are their credentials. She is trying to discredit them!

Txquail posted 9/13/2018 10:24 AM

Sounds like your wife wants to blame you for the affair. You have the wrong therapist or one who sympathizes with cheaters. You should find another therapist. You are not responsible for your cheating wifes affair. She is 100% responsible.

shellofme posted 9/13/2018 15:37 PM

Jimmy1962: I agree with Txquail on this.

I ready your story, but I haven't read your posts, so I don't know where you and your wife are now, but these therapists don't sound knowledgeable about betrayal trauma. The therapist that's saying you're having more difficulty than most. . . I think I'd be requesting numbers and a résumé from that one. It's unprofessional, and it also sounds fishy.

Maybe ask the therapist(s): Where did you go to school? Have you continued to get more educational training since then (continuing ed credits)? If so, where? What have you read/learned about infidelity research over the last 15 years? How long have you been practicing as a therapist? How many clients have you seen who committed infidelity? How many betrayed spouses have you seen? Did you study the betrayal trauma model for BS at your school, or the codependent model of infidelity? Which model do you subscribe to? How many people have you treated that have betrayal trauma? What do you believe is the most successful way to treat people who have experienced betrayal trauma? How many couples have you helped R together? How many of your MC clients divorced? How many stayed together?

I suspect that the reprocessing for BS who find out years later is particularly complicated and likely takes LONGER to reprocess, than when your DDay is closer to the infidelity. I found out about one of my FWH's APs almost 2 years after, and that was a ONS (I'm coining the phrase ODS, b/c it was during the day). Despite the fact that it was only 1 time, (compared to the other 2 APs who were more than a ODS), I've noticed how the 'reprocessing' of the ODS has been very difficult compared to the 2 that I found out about much closer to the time they happened. I find myself going over memories of the years he was keeping this HUGE secret from me and everything we experienced in that time feels like a lie to me now.

Apparently that's a normal reaction to being betrayed and lied to! That reprocessing is what MB said probably makes the healing take so long. You found out so many years after the affair. 20 years? You have 20 years to reprocess!?!

I would fire these therapist(s). Ask your wife why she wants to believe the therapist(s)' take on this, instead of your take. Even if you have ADD, or OCD, your reaction to being betrayed is YOUR reaction to being BETRAYED. I agree that certain FOO issues and experiences can amplify the betrayal trauma. I have experienced that as well. Good luck and keep us posted!

shellofme posted 9/21/2018 12:36 PM


You haven't checked back in on this thread, or it looks like any other. How are you doing?

Superesse posted 9/24/2018 15:50 PM

shellofme, Thanks so much, I saw this right after you posted, and shared on another forum here at SI about it. I noticed people saying it really helped them. Maybe this post should be "sticky noted" somewhere?

I haven't had time to view the videos with my SAWH, but based on what others here have said, this is really helpful for the BS, as we seem to get the culturally-condoned "suck it up" treatment so often in MC and in our lives after betrayal.

I have been waiting until my SAWH is "available" to view it with me, as he appears to have little comprehension of the lingering effects of his actions on others, in general; regarding his betrayal, he has never gotten much beyond his basic realization that he "f'd up." I hope these podcasts by Marnie Breeker may help him find some new understanding of the trauma he put me and our families through.


WhatsRight posted 9/24/2018 22:39 PM

Did I understand correctly that the emphasis is on sexual addiction?

I can certainly understand that the end result can be the same, but I fear my H would dismiss it because he is not a sex addict.

I can just hear, "Well, I'm not like that!"

Has anyone else had this concern?

I just saw this thread, so I haven't listened yet...but I plan on it.


marji posted 9/24/2018 22:52 PM

What's Right While Marnie Breecker works with SAs and partners and spouses of SAs, the podcast is not about SAs. Part I is about the effects of betrayal on the spouse or partner--it's about the trauma that it causes. Part II discusses ways of healing--what the betrayed person can do and what the betrayer can do. I don't think it matters whether the betrayer is an SA. The talk is not about the betrayer but essentially about the person betrayed so there's little opportunity for your H to say it's not about him.

Superesse posted 9/24/2018 22:53 PM

WhatsRight, that was just my post describing my WH. I am sure this link is about the effects of betrayal, in general.

WhatsRight posted 9/25/2018 09:24 AM


His emotional health is unstable at this time, and I won't share it with him at this time.

But I can certainly watch it myself.

Thanks, y'all.

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