SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For BS's who have been or are in a relationship with a Sex Addict.

“Welcome" to 18. No one wants to be here. But there is help, kindness and common cause in these pages. Please feel free to express your needs.

Some of this is my opinion and the opinion of some other spouses, both here and in my real life. Please understand that I am not an expert. I have only my life experience, and will let you know what works in my life. I have been dealing with SA for awhile, long before Tiger Woods' speech. I know people who have been in active recovery with their spouses for 10, 15, 20 years. It IS possible to have a viable marriage after exposure. Hard work, but possible. My story is in my profile if you are interested. It's also possible to have that same kind of happiness and fulfillment if you separate. For some people this is a dealbreaker.

List of resources for Spouses/Partners of SA


This is the advice and list of resources compiled from past and current posters on this thread dealing with a possible or confirmed SA partner. Educate yourself about SA and codependency. (More on this in the second post. Focusing on yourself and your own recovery will strengthen you to deal with the SA and the impact on your life, whether you choose to stay with your SA or not.

The SA must (IMO) seek treatment with a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist). The SA must work their recovery on their own. Even if the SA doesn’t get help, the spouse needs to get counseling to recover from the trauma of being married to a sex addict. Be sure that the therapists are CSATs and/or trained in sex addiction and trauma. If you are in a remote area, many CSATs will skype their sessions. Contact some through online searches. Post here if you see someone you like. Maybe you can get recommendations through private messaging.

12 step meetings are mandatory for SAs. IMHO. They are also highly recommended for spouses. The IRL support of others going through the same process is invaluable. This is where I found both of the CSATs we used.

I'm aware that there are other avenues to recovery. 12 steps programs are what I'm familiar with. Real recovery work is HARD and isn't an excuse. An addict working the steps is digging deep into their own self.


First and foremost read a few of these books: This is not a complete list but someone on this thread recommended them.

Book Resources for Spouses/Partners of SA

Milton Magness and Marsha Means have just published a new book, primarily for partners, is Real Hope, True Freedom. While there really isn't any "new" information, it is extremely useful, much of the format is Q&A. They cover many of the questions we all have and ask here. I strongly recommend it.

1. 
Your Sexually Addicted Spouse: How Partners Can Cope and Heal, by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means. (An essential read regarding trauma of spouses.)

2. Hope and Freedom For Sexual Addicts and Their Partners, by Milton Magness. (Primer for SA education for both SA and spouse. Great first book.)

3. Stop Sex Addiction, by Milton Magness. (Nice explanation of how the process of recovery ideally works with practical advice)

4. Facing Heartbreak, by Stefanie Carnes and Anthony Rodriguez. This is a workbook for partners of SAs. (workbook)

5. Intimate Treason, Healing the Trauma for Partners Confronting Sex Addiction, by Claudia Black and Cara Tripodi. (workbook)

6. The Betrayal Bond, by Patrick Carnes. (Good good book for anyone in a dysfunctional relationship.)

7. Mending a Shattered Heart: A Guide for Partners of Sex Addicts, by Stefanie Carnes. I consider this the "bible." It has some info that may not be pertinent to your situation but each chapter is stand alone, so to speak.

8. 
Deceived: Facing Sexual Betrayal, Lies and Secrets, by Claudia Black PhD.

9. Intimacy Anorexia, by Douglas Weiss. (Just the book for both SAs and spouses suffering from Intimacy and Sexual Anorexia.)

10. Don't Call It Love: Recovery From Sexual Addiction, by Patrick Carnes.

11. The Storm of Sex Addiction by Connie Lofgreen- a newer book but highly recommended by recent members

12. Sex Addiction by Robert Weiss. Is recommended as a book for clinicians but comes highly recommended by a spouse here.

Online Resources for Spouses/Partners:

S-Anon (for the spouses/partners of SAs): http://www.sanon.org

Link for meetings in AUS. http://www.sanon.org/meetings/meetingsaustralia.html

Link for meetings in the UK

http://www.sanon.org/meetings/meetingsuk.html

Link for meetings in the US (by state)

http://www.sanon.org/meetings/meetingsus.html

All other areas

http://www.sanon.org/meetings/meetinglocations.html

SANON isn't for everyone, they aren't perfect, but at least there is the company of others who have BTDT. And they are often an excellent resource for information about CSATs in your area, those who are good, those who accept insurance, etc.

12 step work is just good common sense and a way to interact with people in a healthy way. Especially for spouses.

COSA (spouses/partners/children of SAs) http://www.cosa-recovery.org

It's likely that you will not immediately find a meeting date and location online. You have to make a phone call which will be returned by a volunteer who will provide you with information. This is for security, to weed out crazies who want to come to meetings.

A website with good info on boundaries for dealing with an SA it: 
http://joy2meu.com/Personal_Boundaries.htm

To find a CSAT (Certified Sex Addict Therapist), look for one that specializes in dealing with spouses and trauma. http://www.sexhelp.com/sex-addiction-help/sex-addiction-therapists

www.sexhelp.com (Patrick Carnes main site, the founding expert of SA, there are many resources and info on SA)

Omar Minwalla's Thirteen Dimensions of Sex Addiction-Induced Trauma (SAIT) Among Partners and Spouses Impacted by Sex Addiction©. It will come up in a web search. This is also highly recommended.

12 steps for S-Anon: (COSA is very similar)

1. We admitted we were powerless over sexaholism - that our lives had become unmanageable. 


2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

?. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

?. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 


5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

?. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 


7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

?. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

?. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 


10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 


11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 


12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to others and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Humanist version for AA, can be modified for SA:

http://realisticrecovery.wordpress.com/2009/05/06/12-steps-humanist-version/

Not everyone is a believer in a higher power. This version works for them.

For SAs:

The SA must seek treatment with a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist]

12 step meetings are mandatory for SAs, IMHO


Online resources for SAs:

Find a CSAT: http://www.sexhelp.com/sex-addiction-help/sex-addiction-therapists


Sexaholics Anonymous: (Recommended by most CSATS, more stringent definition of healthy sexual behavior) At this site there is information for the SA and spouse that may be helpful. http://www.sa.org/

SAA: 
 http://saa-recovery.org/

SLAA: http://www.slaafws.org/ (for sex and love addicts)

Recovery Nation is an online community with online recovery workshops for both the SA and the spouse. (This should not replace seeing a CSAT (see below) and going to SA meetings (see above) for the sex addict but is a great addition to those things.) http://www.recoverynation.com

http://www.candeocan.com This is an excellent source of information. They focus on the porn aspect of SA.


The websites of Dr. Milton Magness and Marsha Means are very helpful. Dr. Magness has YouTube videos, also. He is very clear on the need to alleviate the trauma of the spouses. Marsha Means has a whole online support program.

Partners of Sex Addicts Resource Center - POSARC

www.posarc.com. This site is up to date on new findings, research and current events.

There is often mental illness associate with SA. I believe a psychiatric evaluation should be a part of the diagnosis, NOT to excuse the behavior but to facilitate recovery. Bipolar disorder and its similar counterpart bipolar 2 often have a hypersexuality component that drive an addiction. This link is a broad overview. It has links for further investigation.

http://bipolar.about.com/cs/hypersex/a/aa_hypersex.htm

We spouses have been betrayed in the worst way possible. Repeatedly. This is TRAUMA.I encourage you to seek help from an IC who can help with this. There is also a recommended book, The Body Keeps Score by Dr. Bessel Van Kolk,

Many people will tell you that there is no such thing as sex addiction. They cite the omission of SA in the DSM-4. This is the same publication that claimed autism was caused by the mother being unable to bond with their child. IMO, the label serves to direct the TREATMENT, and I don't care if this is a “disease” or compulsivity. If the label enables the extinction of the behavior, I'm all for it. Just don't allow yourself to make excuses for a spouse who is “sick.” No truly recovered addict will ever tell you they don't own the behavior.

There is “hope and freedom” from SA. Whether you stay in the relationship or not.

I know these recommendations lean heavily toward 12 step work. That's what I know. I've seen it work.

Other paths may have equal success. But 12 steps have the benefit of being free and widely available, if only online or by phone.

Holding you in the ***********LIGHT******** Lionne.

Here we are. 17x999. 16,983 posts since it's beginning, not sure when this forum was added. I posted the same first page information as before, I had edited it a bit before vacation, but forget where I saved it.

Here are my thoughts on codependency as it relates to sex addiction.

As, a way of explanation I want to address the term "codependent." It's a hot button! I think it's widely misunderstood. But this is my opinion and I have no problem understanding that my POV isn't golden.

Codependent does not mean that you have any role in the addict's choices and behavior. You did not CHOOSE him because of some unmet needs or because your inner child needs to right the wrongs of the past. I will tell you that this was the very thing I was told back in 2008. Sure got my knickers in a knot.

Now, SA therapists and researchers use this term to describe the damage and trauma to one's soul when living with an active addict, EVEN IF YOU HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE BEHAVIOR. MOST of us know what's it's like to live with a cranky, secretive person as the addict deals with the mechanism of addiction. The addict is constantly tap dancing to remember his lies, figuring out how to explain discrepancies in his story. Most of us knew SOMETHING was wrong in our marriage and we began our own dance, trying to fix things about ourselves that weren't broken in the first place, trying to figure out what would make our partners happy, general appeasement, all at the price of our peace of mind. That has elements of codependency.

Or maybe not. Where is the line between codependency and being a responsive, empathetic and attentive spouse? This isn't clear to me.

But I KNOW I exhibited codependent behavior and, unbeknownst to me, I enabled it. I made excuses for late hours, grouchiness, and my lack of a normal sex life. I did it for tons of reasons, many of which have roots in my FOO, a messed up group for certain. 12 step work helped me identify this and stop it. I never really "worked" the steps, and don't attend meetings any more although we socialize with some of the couples we've met through SANON and SA. IMO, 12 steps are a good, mindful way to live one's life and interact with others.

All this to say, I think codependency is terribly unhealthy pattern in relationships. It may not apply to you. But I believe it's worth considering it because it is so very dysfunctional. Think about it, take what you need and leave the rest.

BTW, if you acknowledge that some people ARE codependent in a relationship with an addict, there's compelling evidence that this disappears once the addictive behavior is extinguished.

Be well!

Thank you Lionne, you always give me much to think about.

The last 4-5 years when his behavior was clearly getting out of control we did that, made excuses, as it also coincided with his diagnosis of diabetes. We would all say, it’s the diabetes, and I’d suggest to him we should talk to the DR about it, we would, and etc, etc.

One thing we’ve since noted since DD, when I’m spiraling, stress is high, etc, his blood sugars are all out of wack. When we are on an even keel the blood sugars are good. So now we see how his behaviors affected his blood.

So also - this is happening. In May he goes back for a week training at the place he was able to play his games freely, the same hotel he had his A with the stalker AP.

He promptly came up with alternative plans, like me going and him paying out of pocket for us to stay at another hotel. Etc.

We’ve been discussing, deciding our two options,

1. me staying home and avoiding those triggers, but here alone with my fears.

2. Going to the place - with all that holds. I eventually want to go, but on my time table, and he will be there for work. A week with days alone with my memories .... not good.

So - finally as I was driving home I realized - there is a third option - and I bought plane tickets to NJ, it’s not going to be easy, but being with my kids will make it easier!

3rd week in May! I want to spend some time with you! Yay.

I’ll be able to walk in early mornings with my grandson, he’s awesome, and my other grandson and I can play video games. All the stuff we do. I can break all their parents rules and we can eat candy before dinner, etc.

WH is aware he’s never been there and not acted out - so we are discussing his triggers, I want him to discuss the with his CSAT. He’s discussing it and working out accountability partners to talk to multiple times a day.

Do any of you amazing ladies have suggestions dealing with travel? Last time I traveled alone I left with the fatalistic belief he’d cheat, I’d leave forever. He didn’t. He did have a “slip” and hide it for a month.

Hi everyone. Glad to see we have a new page started. I'm not sure how to deal with travel- that was a favorite way of acting out for my husband and he hasn't traveled solo in two years because of it. He is however, traveling at the end of April for a single overnighter for work. His IC suggested leaving all internet electronics at home (no laptop or I pad). I'm not sure how I feel.

Hope all is well with everyone. I'm ready for some spring weather!

Travel is a sensitive issue for me this week; Thursday will be the one-year anniversary of H telling me he had an overnight trip out-of-town for work, but what he really did was take AP about 90 minutes away from here for an overnighter... during the week. So basically they left work, drove up there, had dinner, went back to hotel, did whatever, then had to get up early the next morning to be back at work. So much effort for what?

I reminded him last night that the one-year anniversary of that event is this week, and he went into a pretty deep remorse/guilt/shame mode. He kept saying, "What was I thinking? How did I not consider how bad this would hurt you?" In May there will be another anniversary - he had a work trip that involved two nights away over the weekend presenting at a conference, and airplane travel; she went with him; that's where she told him she was in the 'safe' time of her menstrual cycle, so no condom was needed (she actually had an app on her phone, so yea, she knew when she'd get pregnant), and yup, she ended up pregnant. It's a major city in the U.S. (I don't want to give too many identifying details) where I have family, and where H did a year post-doc and our second daughter was born (after a lot of pregnancy complications). So I'm dreading that anniversary. I think he sort of knows to never schedule another work meeting there again.

He has really cut back on travel since last summer, only taking one work-related trip since then. In fact, last fall, he canceled a trip to a country where all of his APs immigrated from; he told his boss he couldn't go for personal reasons; I know that was a big deal; he offered... I didn't even have to ask. He has a three-night trip next week, and I will join him at the tail end, as we will go spend the weekend nearby where his brother lives. Over the years, he has had a lot of work-related travel (several trips a year), and only on three of those was there any cheating, so I don't worry so much about his travel, as I do when I'm away from the house.

For the last several years, I have two support groups I attend regularly on two different week nights, and he would use those to have dinner with AP. Also, a couple of times when I traveled without him (to see family), I know he would spend time with one of his APs. So it's more about when I leave, than when he leaves. About a year ago (before I knew about the A), I stopped attending one of those groups, but have now added S-Anon back in, so yea, I am reminded that he used the time I took away from home to try to better myself to go get his kicks with the Fatal Attraction bitch (minus the boiling bunnies).

How bad did it get for you? I mean physically/psychologically?

I have a history of treatment-resistance depression, starting about six years ago. After one inpatient treatment program attempt, I finally had to go inpatient on a psych ward, and the only thing that worked was ECT. But it worked great. Dragged me up from the depths of despair. Unfortunately nine months later, I was diagnosed with cancer and had a complete hysterectomy (no chemo or radiation needed); then at 7.5 weeks after that surgery, I developed sepsis (which has a 30% mortality rate) and was in the hospital for five nights. It took months to get my physical strength back. Two weeks after discharge from the hospital for sepsis, I was wide awake a 1AM (thank you surgical menopause) and heard someone breaking into our home downstairs. I woke H, who surprised the guy by just yelling at him, and the guy ran off, after taking a few small electronics that we could easily replace. It was two years after that that H's acting out really began, but I didn't discover it until last June. We were really doing pretty good, given everything up until early Feb. when the first of my two brothers died twelve days apart. And two weeks before traveling out-of-state to the second brother's funeral, I find the porn on H's electronics that leads to his diagnosis of sex addiction.

I'm just tired of living from crisis to crisis, and told H if someone told me the rest of my life was going to be like the last six years, I'd end it now. I can't do this anymore. I take up to .5mg of xanax a day, as needed (sometimes I need it when I first wake up, and sometimes I need it at bedtime). Last night I didn't take any at bedtime, so when I woke up this morning, I was already feeling high-strung, so took .25 mg. I seriously don't think I could function without it right now, and I HATE it; I hate taking meds; I get no 'high' from xanax; it just takes the edge off so I can have a few hours of cognitive clearness and sometimes an appetite. Almost every time I see my psychiatrist, we repeat the same conversation: Me: "I hate taking the xanax, but feel if I didn't, I'd be back in the hospital again because I wouldn't be able to function." Doc: "I've seen you use xanax before in a period of crisis; you're not using it to get high, or needing higher dosages for it to work, so take what you need to." Me: "But I don't want to develop a dependency." Doc: "If we sense you're taking more and more, or need higher dosages for it to work, we'll start working with your other psych meds, but I'm not worried about that. You are still in shock. This is what you need to get through right now. Projecting long-term doesn't help you and only creates more anxiety."

So then I walk away from those appointments feeling like I've been given permission to use it as a self-care tool, but within a day or two, I start worrying about it again. Today, aside from what I took this morning, I took another .25 mg. around dinner time because I could feel the brain fog starting to come on big time, and didn't feel like I could get the things done this evening I needed to do without it. And now I'm freaking out again. My IC has seen me go through periods of crisis, use xanax as needed, and come off of it on my own when I no longer needed it. I'd say I moved from using it every second or third day in late January, to using it every day in February with the first brother's death. I thought when we finally had the funeral for the second brother just over a week ago, I'd be able to regroup when I got home, but I'm having a really hard time having compassion for myself.

I'd love to hear if anyone else reacted so viscerally to their trauma that they ended up on benzodiazepines for a while. I keep hearing myself tell myself that I'm weak for using them.

Travel. Our being away. My husband took both opportunities to act out. Remember to think of them as perverse toddlers and it makes sense.

I think how I feel about this is based on how I feel my husband's overall sobriety and recovery is going, AND the type of acting out he did. So in my case, in the first year, I KNEW he would act out when he traveled alone or when I was gone for any length of time. As he got more sober, I figured that he probably wasn't spending all the time with porn on his computer, but I bet he was masturbating to fantasy. And the staring/leering/scanning, that took the longest to change. I have no clue if he does it when I'm not there, but it's much reduced when I am around.

I think if we they are changing and we're fairly along in trusting ourselves again, we'll probably know if they act out. They'll come home an be "off".

And it always comes down to what are we willing to tolerate at this time.

My husband is changing, no doubt, but he has a LONG way to go to be a caring and giving person. I think he's probably too self centered to ever get there. And that self centeredness puts him at a high risk for relapse. Our relationships, even if good, will always be relationships in recovery.

ashestophoenix

How bad did it get for you? I mean physically/psychologically?

I still use ativan from time to time. I think your P.doc has good advice. I get that you are concerned about dependency. If you aren't gradually increasing, you will be fine. I friend of mine used it daily, for quite a few years. She never increased she never stopped.

My understanding of benzos is that you can build up a tolerance. So maybe my friend was getting less help from it but getting psychological benefit. Take it. The multiple traumas you have experienced warrant it. Your doctor sees that, too.

But antidepressants may also be useful, has that been considered? They are more "long acting" than benzos. I took celexa for several years. It helped without making me drowsy.

There's another school of thought is that medication and talk therapy aren't effective. Google "How to Overcome Emotional Trauma without Medication" and the work of Dr. Bessel van der Kolk, MD. After more than five years of sobriety and recovery I am about to start trauma therapy. One of my doctors think unresolved trauma is causing me physical problems.

Sanon and other support groups talk a lot about self care. After years of babying sex addicts and being bullied by them, we need to practice UBER self care.

Number4, how bad did it get for me?

I have survived shattering my leg and ankle, having emergency trauma surgery, and being completely bed ridden for three months followed by a year of physical rehab.

I have a life threatening, chronic, incurable immune disorder for which I had chemo and now am in remission.

I had lost every member of my immediate family by the time I was 30.

I dragged my husband into multiple MC's who believed his lies and gaslighted me as well telling me I was the problem in the marriage and to take better care of him and realize how "perfect" our love was. So I have therapy induced trauma.

The discovery of my husband's addictions and the awareness of how abusive my marriage has been? The only thing harder in my life has been my illness. But, the impact on me has been profound. I will never, ever underestimate the severe trauma of discovery. This is intimate betrayal with gaslighting. Some of these addicts are more abusive than others. And my husband's abuse went on for 30 years and had escalated.

My view is that I need all of the support I can get. I strongly recommend finding an individual trauma therapist for yourself. Mine has been a life savior. My therapist is trained in Internal Family Systems. Sounds weird, but it's been so healing for me. I also know of success with EMDR.

If you trust your doctor, for sure take medication. I did for a short period of time and will do so again if need be.

I was so depleted by the ongoing abuse of living with my husband without knowing what in the heck was going on. Then life threw me other traumatic curve balls and I was depleted by that. I don't think the abuse of my husband caused my illness, but it sure didn't help it.

Here's what I know: I must be gentle with myself. I must put my well being first...always. I must be careful with my energy so that it is focused on my healing. I must see my trauma recovery as the top priority in my life.

It takes time, but it works. I'm so much better than I was the last years.

ashestophoenix

[This message edited by ashestophoenix at 9:33 AM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

I just need to say it to those who will understand, that porn thread on the R board just about had me going crazy.

[This message edited by demolishedinside at 9:40 AM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

Demolished -

Me too - it took everything in me NOT to post on it. Followed by more of everything in me NOT to read the posts after a few of them. I feel like screaming “stop it!!”

Number4-

I’ve had horrible things happen to me, and this is the worst thing by far. I’m on AD’s and have an emergency anxiety pill I feel like I take too often. I have no advice because I’m barely getting thru today right now. Just want you to know you aren’t alone, you are heard. I keep being told “self care!”, and it’s hard to even eat! But I’m going to say it to you “take care of you, be gentle with you” hugs!

Porn. Blech. I agree.

Every once in a while I have to say this out loud...

What in HELL were they THINKING?! These low life, desperate, immoral, blood sucking, gold digger women, and these men engaged in PHYSICAL interaction, risking our health, their health, our lives!!

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Personally, I am shocked I made it through all this without meds. Melatonin to help me sleep, lots of exercise.

I cannot believe I have not lost a pound. I realize I am in fight or flight. Need more trauma therapy. I have to admit Lionne your comment about Co-dependents triggered me a little.

I think codependency is terribly unhealthy pattern in relationships. It may not apply to you. But I believe it's worth considering it because it is so very dysfunctional. Think about it, take what you need and leave the rest.

I am a recovering codependent. I get what she is saying. I was harmful to me and my kids. I could not even stick up for my daughter many of times in front of him. I was in PD forum and what i mentioned was getting institutionalized. Like prisoners, it becomes your norm. Normal is fearful. It was super scary to break free. However, I am feeling better. I never have to check on him anymore because I do not care. He is a child. Will always be a child. Not afraid of being alone. The D process is not easy. Does not want to move out. All excuses of no money. But still moving forward, not backwards.

I just have to say that I agree with demolishedinside. That post on porn in Reconciliation was horrible. I literally had some sort of mental breakdown from it. It was frightening. It has been a long time since something like that happened. Luckily, I have received the help I need. It just makes it so obvious to me how much trauma this has caused me and how much work I still have to do to heal myself. Sometimes I just want to curl up in a ball and shut out the world. I want them to understand. I want them to see my pain too. But according to that thread, porn isn't an issue and it just gets my blood boiling!

I just wanted to give thanks to this board. This is truly a place where I feel safe. That my pain is real and valid. I will take as many of these places as I can get. Thank you again.

BriarRose, that thread...it hurt me because I needed to see the guys on SI as different from my H. They aren’t so much, huh? And telling me I’m blameshifting from my H to the porn? Omg. I’m still furious.

You made me cry with your support. Thank you. I just don’t know what to make of it. Maybe I needed to know that IF my M didn’t work, there were guys out there who would hear my feelings and honor them. I was told my assumptions were wrong. It was such a blow that I, too, had some kind of breakdown.

I don’t think there is a way to make them understand.

Yes BriarRose! The pain is very real. Many of us have been that ball.

I constantly wonder why I am tired all the time. I am emotionally exhausted. Just trying to get through my days. I am hoping over time I feel better and have more energy.

Yes the porn thread was very, very, difficult. I THINK, although please correct me if I am wrong, there were only BS's on there, correct? So that means even spouses that were betrayed (men) thought porn use was ok. But I'm guessing they are protecting their egos because even their porn use is NOT an excuse for a wife to act out, and I do agree with that. But I am absolutely shocked at how differently women and men feel about porn use and, actually sex, in general. I must've been living under a rock all this time. If it weren't such an emotional button for me it would be absolutely fascinating. Well, I guess I shouldn't be shocked, but I just never realized there was such an incredible divide. It's much more than I ever imagined and the thread certainly makes me think I have been living with a stranger all these years as I'm sure he feels the same. Sad.

.

I have had a post where I brought up my hunch that a guy who is a porn user in his daily life, will tend to have poorer boundaries around attractive women....and I got politely mocked and even outright ridiculed, mostly all by MEN, unsurprisingly, although there was one woman who said she used porn... My next conclusion was that some even here use porn, and from now on, I will keep my opinion on how damaging it is off any thread like that!

But just my opinion, with a dose of sick humor, these guys remind me of an old song by the Smothers Brothers:

Slithery Dee, he came out of the sea,

He may catch all the others, but he won’t catch me!!

No, you won’t catch me, you stupid old Slithery Dee!!

You may catch all the others, but you won’t catch...

gobble gurble Burp.....

So that is how these guys pretty much sound to me....

Lionne, unfortunately, I've been through a LOT of anti-depressants in an attempt to manage my anxiety. Zoloft worked for years until, well, it stopped working, and we tried many others. I'm actually now on a rather old tricyclic antidepressant (Pamelor), as well as a low dose of Remeron. I've upped the Remeron twice since last summer - was at only 7.5 mg as a sleep aid, but it's not an effective antidepressant at that dose, so we've upped it twice to my current 22.5 mg. My psych really thinks this is all situational, and says I can up the Remeron again, but thinks if I just let enough time go by (maybe until I get through all my major 1st-year anniversaries in late June), I will start to regain some stability. I'll google van der Kolk and see what's out there.

I'm so sorry to hear what all of you have been through, but it does affirm what I'm going through, and it diminishes my habits of sometimes thinking, "If I were just stronger......"

As for the porn thread on the R forum... honestly, I made a decision that this thread is the only one I will follow on SI. There are too many triggers on some of the other threads I've peeked at. I needed to find my people, and I have found them here. Reading that other stuff, for me, would be pain shopping and I don't need to go there.