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need help to make sense of all of this

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EightYrsLater posted 8/29/2018 15:20 PM

Please know that all of us are praying for you, sending you strength, or keeping you in our thoughts. In whatever way we show support for those who are suffering, we are doing that tonight.

This is the worst part. It gets better, I promise.

I wish peace and strength for you.

Cheers,

40YOSL posted 8/29/2018 15:23 PM

Did she say she will divorce you if the polygraph is a requirement? How did she justify her stance?

I would assume she fears that if she discloses it was a PA you will divorce her anyway. You need to decide if a PA is in fact a deal breaker. For many it is, but for many it isn't if they can see that the WS is willing to do the hard work to show that they can be a safe partner. You need to communicate this to her.

You need to decide if a PA is a deal breaker or if she admits to a PA and commits to doing the work necessary to attempt R whether you will likewise commit to attempting to R. Understand that R cannot be guaranteed but if she is honest and you both work hard at it I would think you will have a good shot at R.

Buster123 posted 8/29/2018 15:29 PM

Surprise her, drive to her Mom's house right now (don't be surprised if she's not there and instead trying to get her story straight with OM to minimize it), ask her for the phone, once you have it secured in your pocket, tell her you have have a data recovery app, demand a summarized verbal timeline of the A on the spot, including when was the first time they had sex and how often, ask her if she's in love with him and if she ever said that in her text messages, record her confession with your cellphone.

Tell her she's got until tomorrow to give you a complete written timeline of the A, and that failure to do so will mean you file for D and FULL exposure of her A to all family and close friends, if she refuses to this or to go NC with OM then you have your answer, file for D and don't look back, it will be hard but it will get muuch better with time, either way R or D you need to get out of infidelity.

Don't forget to contact OM's divorced wife to see if she has more info on the A and to compare notes, ask her if OM traveled alone ("business or visit familyl trips") at the same time as your WW over the years for that yearly "yoga" retreat.

DEMAND she takes a polygraph, we've seen it here time and time again, this may not have even been her first rodeo, she may have even gone to that yearly trip with him or different OM's. Don't let her control the situation now (she's been handling all the cards for too long), you take control and let her react and catch her unprepared, she was not prepared to being caught, don't give her time, act NOW, just drive over there use the element of surprise to your advantage.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 3:34 PM, August 29th (Wednesday)]

Mene posted 8/29/2018 15:52 PM

Your story reminds me so much of mine. WW will lie until you can show them proof. Gather the evidence. Present it. Tell her to give you her phone now.

We all know the dreaded feeling you are experiencing in the lead up to knowing you may be finally getting the truth. Itís the worst feeling. We are thinking of you.

Robert22205https posted 8/29/2018 16:13 PM

Good solid advice from Buster123

You are not alone.

mantorok posted 8/29/2018 16:23 PM

Just remember if she doesn't cooperate with any of your demands it's just more admittance of guilt.

Keep your wits about you and know that you're not alone. We've all been there and we've all made mistakes along the way too. You're doing great. Look after yourself.

ChamomileTea posted 8/29/2018 16:25 PM

so the conclusion is the most advice for a polygraph. but how good is a polygraph? it is very controversial and doesn't give accurate results.

Whether polygraphs are 100% conclusive or not isn't the point... because it's the "parking lot confession" that you're looking for. Of course, you still go through with the testing. But you can throw out the results if you're unconvinced, or even repeat the test with new questions. That's up to you. A cheater knows their guilt and they don't want to go in there bluffing. So if they can trickle a little minimized truth and get you to back down, they'll usually go for it.

If you've never had one, professional polygraphers are fairly imposing. A liar has to be pretty damned composed not to be put off their game.

I also agree with Buster123 about calling the resort and finding out if it's feasable that someone could sleep in the conference room. I know it probably feels like a weird call to make, but I think I'd probably do it anyway. At least go through their website and see if there are pictures of the area that show a couch.

So sorry this is happening to you. I've been in R for almost 4 years now, and I truly believe that you at least need the "who, when, where, and why" in order to rebuild. That's the minimum. Otherwise, the WS isn't sufficiently humbled enough to do the work. If a cheater is allowed to believe s/he can get one over on their spouse, they usually will... because they've already proved they're capable of doing it.

william posted 8/29/2018 16:54 PM

The biggest problem you have right now is that she's still lying. Worse you know that she's lying and the ONLY way you can verify her story is via her phone. Since you gave her time, presumably with the phone, she will go through it and remove anything that proves anything she really doesn't want you to know. Ten she will show you what she wants you to see and honestly you will have zero idea if she deleted anything and you will 'have to trust her' that this 'is all'.

Do you see the problem with trusting her again? She's lied for months, lied about the trip and hotel, and NOW she's going to want you to trust her again?

If it was me I'd go over there asap and get the phone before its too late, if its not already.

Never let on to your sources. Ever. You let her know the phone would be a source and then let her be alone with it.

But don't feel ashamed. Its a very common error. I made it with my wife's emails. Many who come here make it.

But I can't sugarcoat that this is going to put you in a position of either trusting that its all (bad move) or having to confront her for sanitizing it when you aren't sure. This will leave you wondering if you do indeed know all and set your healing way, way back.

Another bad move many bs make si telling WS about 'this great site I found'. WS can use it to see what advice you get and can be a step ahead of you and she can see what you think and use that to manipulate you.

Ripped62 posted 8/29/2018 17:39 PM

What is the point BUSTER123?

....your WW methodically planned a vacation fuck fest with OM, she's been willing to spread her legs and have OM penetrate her vagina, suck his penis then come home to you and kiss you like nothing happened, another thing women don't engage in As without feelings....

The post by you is brutal and unnecessary.

While you have offered insight and help Buster123 please stop with the harmful and abusive rhetoric. You are a great asset. The harmful rhetoric is not required. You can get your message across without it.

Do you not think the original poster does not know what might have transpired or understands what may have gone on in his marriage?

You were not treated this way when you first started posting. No one attacked your spouse or you Buster123 and emasculated you or said these things about your wife. Why should you do this to him? How is this of help to him? Why do you wish to inflict additional truama and shame on a new member?

Please show some empathy, kindness, and compassion for someone just starting on the path of healing.

New members and old alike do not need to hear you emasculate him and treat a new member in such a manner.

In my opinion you owe the newly betrayed spouse an apology and the other members of SI one as well.

I suggest this thread regain it's purpose and constructively help him navigate out of infidelity.

The decision to divorce or reconcile is his. He knows his situation better than any of us. He is just now learning the truth after experiencing the shock and denial of one of the most traumatic events of his life.

Did you not reconcile with your spouse after infidelity?

We need to help him.

Buster123 posted 8/29/2018 18:04 PM

@Ripped, I'll be the first to apologize if I offended OP (I don't know if he was offended) or anyone for that matter, my intentions are definitely NOT to offend or emasculate anyone and honestly I've read much worst right here on SI and other infidelity forums. I think I'm entitled to my opinions and yes sometimes I may be blunt, and I feel sometimes some bluntness is needed, sometimes it promts a BS to act sooner and not waste precious time during the discovery phase and throughout R or D proceedings, other posters that have been blunt before may agree.

BTW like I've expressed before here in SI, I'm all for R most of the time (except in LTAs and very young marriages with no children).

WilliamM posted 8/29/2018 18:19 PM

As others said, she is going to destroy evidence. See if she has a pad or a laptop. Her phone may be linked to them. At this point, don't believe anything. Take your time deciding what you want. I'm praying for you.

40YOSL posted 8/29/2018 18:42 PM

Buster123

I apologize to all for adding to this thread-jack but you questioned whether any other member found your post offensive. I have no problem with other members being blunt but stating

OM penetrate her vagina, suck his penis then come home to you and kiss you like nothing happened
added nothing helpful and seemed intended to inflict pain on the OP.

Buster123 posted 8/29/2018 19:27 PM

@40YOSL

I don't intend on thread jacking either and hopefully this will be the last time I have to address this here, again it was NEVER my intention to offend or "inflict pain" on anyone, everyone is entitled to his/her opinions, that's yours and I respect it but don't agree with it, being blunt and frank (as others here in SI have been) with statements such as the one I made are not uncommon here on SI, in fact like I said before I've seen much worst.

Being blunt doesn't necessarily mean you want to offend or inflict pain on anyone, at least not in my case (some will agree and others disagree), I do it in an effort to prompt BS to act sooner rather than later and prevent them from wasting precious time during the discovery, reconciliation or divorce phases.

Ripped62 posted 8/29/2018 19:29 PM

It was offensive to me. We need to help newly betrayed spouses. There is no need to heap additional trauma on what we have been through. This is not about Reconciliation, Divorce, or being blunt. It is about treating others with the dignity, respect, and compassion they deserve. This should be a place of healing and support for those wishing to get out of infidelity.

I restrain myself. I suggest you do the same. Abuse and emasculation is not needed and you will be called out if you continue doing it.

We need to help the OP.

In my opinion he has more than enough already to file for divorce. Phone contents is not needed. If he wishes to gather more evidence that is up to him and we can inform him how.

If he wishes to reconcile he needs to understand how to ascertain how to get his wayward wife to a point where this can be considered.

What you said accomplished neither. It was abusive and harmful.


Ripped62 posted 8/29/2018 19:40 PM

I do it in an effort to prompt BS to act sooner rather than later and prevent them from wasting precious time during the discovery, reconciliation or divorce phases.

This is ludicrous Buster123. It chases members from the board so they do no get the help they need.

It is not necessary to get a newly betrayed spouse moving hastily in the right direction. We can get them moving without such harm.

Try posting without the abusive and emasculating comments and you will help the OP just as fast and future new posters as well.

Post like we are sitting together with him. I think you will find we get better results.

I think I'm entitled to my opinions....

You are entitled to your opinions as we all are. Our opinion does not allow us to eviscerate someone or cross boundaries of decency. There is no reason to offend, flame, or shame another member or his or her spouse.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 7:54 PM, August 29th (Wednesday)]

Buster123 posted 8/29/2018 19:54 PM

@Ripped

Again I apologize if you (or anyone else) found it offensive, not my intention, I don't necessarily consider what I think it's the truth in situations like these offensive much less abuse, It's one of different approaches I may take (depending on the situation) to try to help.

I agree he has enough for D, but as you may know some don't just look for "enough evidence" but rather to know as much of what happened as possible and if they decide to R and forgive, to know as much as they intend to forgive as possible or just for closure.

You don't know if my blunt/frank approach "accomplishes" something or not, not abusive nor harmful, that's your opinion, which I again respectfully disagree with, as a matter of fact sometimes I see BS appreciate the frankness/bluntness of some of the posts here in SI, whether they come from me or someone else. Now back to the subject at hand.

Ripped62 posted 8/29/2018 20:10 PM

Your previous posts is incorrect.There are more than enough posts and members here that have voiced outrage at having this done to them and have had to deal with such rhetoric to know it is harmful and does not further healing. Nor does it help them get out of infidelity.

I have never scene a member post that such abuse and cruelty moved them to action. I do not recall any member stating if it was not for being shamed and insulted they would never have acted.

To suggest posting such comments like those from you are necessary and are helpful will not fly and does nothing to allow the OP or anyone else to survive infidelity.

For the rest of this thread and in future threads please give it a try. I think you will be shocked at the results achieved without engaging in the rhetoric designed to shame and emasculate members.

Butforthegrace posted 8/29/2018 20:12 PM

Recovering:

First, you know your WW had an A of some sort: an EA at the least. Frequent, prolonged, presumably intimate (from an emotional perspective) communication with another man that she kept secret from you.

Second, experience here on SI suggests that your WW is not being truthful about what occurred on the one known visit out of town. These are adults. Your WW was keeping this secret from you. You know they planned to fly to the same place, at the same time, and stay overnight (or over several nights?) in a hotel or resort. You indicate that the AP had no separate reservation of his own (how do you know that?), suggesting he planned to stay with your WW.

They tell you that he slept on a couch in a lobby. What hotel have you ever stayed at that would allow a man who is not registered as a guest to sleep overnight on a couch in the lobby?

The logical inference is that they spent the night together in a single room, and the additional inference, given that they are adults and that she arranged this intending it to be secret from you, is that they had a physical encounter that night.

Third, experience here tells us that, before affair partners arrange that sort of weekend getaway, they have some level of physical affair going on at home.

Finally, experience here tells us that, when caught, WS's often will admit only to the specific details the BS has proof for, and will minimize even those.

Thus, from what we can see, we suspect that there is more below the surface, like an iceberg. You know your WW better than we do. But if you are like most BH's, this doubt will gnaw at you unless and until you resolve it.

There are forensic tools to recover deleted text threads and such. There are also tools to piece together other info, such as google locator, etc. One of the best tools is to meet with the BOW and compare notes.

Another tool often used is to require the WS to produce a detailed written timeline of the A, and provide emails, texts, etc, to corroborate the timeline.

I realize that there is a desire to believe your WW, and perhaps you are correct in doing so. But we have seen many threads here where BS's come back weeks or months later and acknowledge that what we suspect to be the case really was.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:29 PM, August 29th (Wednesday)]

still-living posted 8/29/2018 20:37 PM

Something tells me you have lost the opportunity to read the information on her phone. She will delete it, lose it, damage it, or it will become stolen.

Ripped62 posted 8/29/2018 20:42 PM

Buster123 the following quote from you is incorrect.

You don't know if my blunt/frank approach "accomplishes" something or not, not abusive nor harmful, that's your opinion, which I again respectfully disagree with, as a matter of fact sometimes I see BS appreciate the frankness/bluntness of some of the posts here in SI, whether they come from me or someone else.

Yes I know emasculating abusive rhetoric the same as and very similar to what you posted is harmful. Many have voiced the harm it causes them and some members have left because of it.

Your comments are not blunt and frank. They are abusive and shame members.

Your statement that it is a fact that BS appreciate being abused and shamed by posts similar to yours is false. I cannot recall one such post. There are many members that describe the harm it does to them. There are several posts about it. We can get the results we need without such insulting rhetoric.
I speak for many members when I say we want no part of it and it does not belong in JFO or any of the forums for that matter.

Please refrain from posting in this manner. The OP in this thread, members, future members, and SI will be better off without the harmful shaming.

Please give it a try. We should not have to warn new members and anyone we refer to this forum to steel themselves for the abuse and shaming that will transpire from others.

We should allow this to be a place of healing.

Please treat others with the respect and care they deserve.

Their worlds have been blown to hell and they are already traumatized by intrusive thoughts and mind movies. You heaping more shame and emasculation on them is not helpful.

[This message edited by Ripped62 at 8:58 PM, August 29th (Wednesday)]

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