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Humiliated and Angry

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Westway posted 10/7/2019 12:01 PM

So, I have posted on some other forums regarding my WW's infidelity and have gotten some good feedback from everyone. I have been reticent about posting my story for fear I would be labeled racist, which I do not believe I am.

The quick summary is thus:

My WW and met in 1997 and dated for about a year before getting married in a big Catholic wedding with all the trimmings. I was very happy, very much in love with her and we seemed like we were of to a good start.

A couple years into the marriage we were at a family party one night and the wine was flowing. Everyone was laughing and visiting outside around a patio fire when the conversation about our past dating lives came up. At some point my sister in law (wife's older sister) blurted out something to the effect that she was surprised my wife dated and married me given I was a white boy. At that moment I thought she meant that she was surprised that my WW who was Italian-American would date an Irish guy like myself. No. She went on to laugh and say that my wife had only dated black guys. I looked over at my wife and she had turned white as a ghost, gave her sister a mean look and then got up and went inside. My sister in law was laughing and her husband quickly and mercifully chided her and then changed the subject.

Fortunately neither my WW's brothers or dad were present at that moment, because over the course of being married to her a couple years I had come to find out her dad was mob affiliated. This was not known to me at the time of our wedding. I had to slowly glean this information. I also found out directly, just from talking to my brothers in law and my father in law that they despise African Americans; as in hate them with a passion.

Well I was a bit flummoxed. Not really mad, but irritated that my wife forgot to mention that all the guys she had slept with before she married me were black guys. That night I asked her point blank if she preferred black men for partners, and she said something to the affect that yes she had, up until she met me, and that I shouldn't be concerned about it and that it was in her past and that she was totally happy and satisfied with me.

Well I didn't harp on it. The past was the past right? I had slept with a lot more women than she had men, so I couldn't really judge her. That was my reasoning. So I let it go and absorbed the new information and just kind of moved on. At the time I wasn't all that hurt -- just irritated that she had left out that information while we were dating and engaged. It would have been nice to know you know? It would not have made any difference to me at the time because I was in love with her, and I am not racist. I grew up in an urban neighborhood with a 50/50 ratio of whites and blacks. Three of my best childhood friends were black and I am still close with those guys today. I dated black girls in high school and college and I am not in any way against interracial dating or marriage. In fact I'm one of those guys who thinks the more racial and ethnic blending in our American society the better. It would make us a less divided society.

But back to my WW and what I discovered a couple weeks ago. Turns out that for the last six months my WW has been playing sperm bank to at least three men that I have evidence for. The information came to light about two months ago when I got a text message from one of my credit card services notifying me that a large payment (above $500) had been made at a hotel on the far side of the city from where I live. My wife is a spendthrift, and I have notifications sent to me whenever she or I spend over $500. Well this particular payment was for a hotel suite. My WW was supposed to have been a hundred miles away at a baby shower thrown by a so called friend.

Anyways, I knew something was up, so after she got back I didn't say anything to her. I got on some infidelity boards, including this one, and gleaned some information about investigating possible adultery. After a couple days I settled on hiring a P.I. I did this about a month and a half ago. He spent the next month investigating and gathering data while I waited. In the meantime my gut was screaming that she had been up to no good. I hardly slept or ate, and I know the WW was on to me because she walked around like a scared deer.

Sure enough, a little over two weeks ago the P.I. came back with phone records, receipts, and other hard evidence that my wife had been meeting with three men, all African American, and had been to hotels with them, paying for the rooms herself. The mistake she made this one last time was she used the wrong credit card. Had I not gotten that notification I never would have suspected her. I have names of two of the men. One of them is a coworker of hers.

On September 20th I gathered up all the evidence and waited until she got home. When she came upstairs I confronted her in the bedroom and showed her the stack of evidence. She about passed out, cried uncontrollably, and wouldn't say anything to me for a long time. Eventually after I got her calmed down she admitted it was true, and for the past few weeks I have been squeezing her for details which she has been loathe to give me.

That night I kicked her out of the bedroom. I cancelled all our joint credit cards and I have been to see four lawyers so far. I have not made a move on filing for D yet, but I know pretty much where I would stand if and when I file. My inclination is to divorce now, but I still have my younger daughter at home. I really don't want to disrupt her life while she is in high school. This is an important time in her life. She will be 18 in three years and my thought is to stick it out in the marriage until she graduates high school and leaves for college. I plan on following her out the door.

My WW is scared shitless as you may guess. She makes a pittance at her job and doesn't really have any marketable skills because she has spent most of our marriage as a homemaker and mom. If I divorce her she will suffer a big hit to her lifestyle, which is a good one. I have provided well for my family and we live comfortably.

My biggest anger in this whole thing, aside from the hurt of her betrayals, is wondering constantly why she chose to marry me, the whitest of white men, when it is obvious to me that her physical desires are for black men. Why didn't she just rebel against her family and find an African American guy to marry and settle down with? Yeah her dad would have probably disowned her, but did that give her the right to make me out for a rube?

We haven't told anyone. I'm worried what her dad and brothers would do if they find out. I could see them tracking these guys down and putting serious hurt on them and dragging me and my WW into a big legal mess. I have a hard-earned reputation that I do not want tarnished, so I don't want her family and the whole city knowing. I also don't want to tell our daughters, because it would only be a matter of time until they let the truth slip and then boom!

I feel totally alone in this. If it were not for my youngest daughter, I would have already kicked her sorry mom's butt to the curb. Anyways, that is my story. It is good to get this out. And I apologize if I have offended anyone. If this post does come across as racist then I will delete it.

Anyways, I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Maybe some affirmation that my feelings are valid. I have been reading enough of the threads and other writings here on SI to where I will be able to plot a good course when I'm ready to move forwards.

Marz posted 10/7/2019 12:13 PM

Turns out that for the last six months my WW has been playing sperm bank to at least three men that I have evidence for.

IMO under these circumstances staying for the kid is an excuse not to have to make a decision or do anything.

It's your life if you want to waste more of it go ahead. But life is short and you don't get it back.

I'd bet this is the "tip of the iceberg" and there's a lot more under that rock. Better get checked for STD's

[This message edited by Marz at 12:14 PM, October 7th (Monday)]

Butforthegrace posted 10/7/2019 12:56 PM

First, there is nothing racist about your thread.

Your issue is your WWs basic lack of honesty. Though it seems like at least part of her issue is her messed up family, you are the one bearing the burden.

Second, in your case, it does not seem like there is any way she could convince you that you are her sexual plan A. Without that. R is probably not possible.

Staying for the kid wont work. Your daughter will sense the tension.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 13:08 PM

Second, in your case, it does not seem like there is any way she could convince you that you are her sexual plan A. Without that. R is probably not possible.

She can't. She has told me several times since D-Day that the with those men was just sex. She has abashedly admitted that she prefers the physique of black men. But then in the same breath she says that I'm the best lover she has ever had, but that she gave into her coworker putting the moves on her, and then that sort of opened her up to having sex with other men too. She claims it was never that I wasn't enough for her.

My answer: "Well, then why did you need to bang all of them you stupid b....?" I told her I wasn't buying it, and that she can take her lies down to the fishmarket and try to sell them there.

I'm not a slob. I have a good physique and I have taken good care of myself. I boxed in high school and college and have been working out and sparring three to four times a week since the '90s. I have been told by many women that I don't look my age and that they would date me in a heartbeat if I wasn't married.

Cooley2here posted 10/7/2019 13:09 PM

Young wife has a fetish or an addiction or something. Whatever it is has been with her all of her life probably. You are not going to change one thing about her. What you can change is your own place. You can be in a marriage in name only or you can be a single man of two daughters. Itís your choice. You certainly donít have to ever make this public to anyone. This is no different than a man paying prostitutes. She is footing the bill for all of it. Take race out of it. Look at her behaviors. Just a typical serial cheater. As banal as that. That story has been told on here many times.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 13:11 PM

I'd bet this is the "tip of the iceberg" and there's a lot more under that rock. Better get checked for STD's

Oh I have no doubt that this behavior has been going on for some time. I know in my gut there have been more. She denies it, but she's a proven liar. I don't believe a damn word she says.

I got checked for STDs back a couple weeks before DDay and I got a blood test again last week. No STDs, but I have been told that HIV can be undetectable for months. So I get to do this several more times. Its fucking humiliating.

Butforthegrace posted 10/7/2019 13:12 PM

Tell her you love her and want her to be happy, and that it is plainly clear what kind of life she wants in order to be happy. So you are freeing her to pursue her happiness.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 13:22 PM

Young wife has a fetish or an addiction or something. Whatever it is has been with her all of her life probably. You are not going to change one thing about her.

I don't see it as a fetish, just a basic preference. I know guys who focus on Latinas to the exclusion of all other ethnic groups. I have a white buddy who only dates black women. More power to him I say.

And you are right, she is not going to change and I have no inclination to help her do so.

What you can change is your own place. You can be in a marriage in name only or you can be a single man of two daughters. Itís your choice. You certainly donít have to ever make this public to anyone.

Staying for now. The house is legally hers. But she hasn't kicked me out. I'm probably going to do the former option and just play nice with her for the sake of her family. I can be as good an actor as she is for the next three years until my daughter graduates. I am way tougher and more resilient than my WW. I am going to miss the sex though.

This is no different than a man paying prostitutes. She is footing the bill for all of it.

Yeah, except she's the prostitute, paying for the hotels but giving the sex away for free.

Take race out of it. Look at her behaviors. Just a typical serial cheater. As banal as that. That story has been told on here many times.

Yeah I know. I state the race issue only inasmuch as it should have precluded her from ever dating or marrying a man of a race she is not attracted to. It has nothing to do with the men she banged. I could care less about those scrubs. Whether they are better than I in bed is not what is bothering me. They did nothing any verile men wouldn't do when an attractive woman offers no-strings sex. If I were single and in their position I might have done the same. I'm no angel.

[This message edited by Westway at 1:22 PM, October 7th (Monday)]

Tigersrule77 posted 10/7/2019 13:22 PM

Westway, I am sorry you are here and dealing with this situation.

I have to agree with Marz. Your WW spent six months cheating with three guys. And this is only what you can confirm. Do you have evidence that it only started 6 months ago? How can you be sure she wasn't cheating prior to that?

It seems to me that you can negotiate with your WW now to D, have her waive alimony in exchange for you keeping the reason for your D quiet, i.e. not telling anyone in her family. Or only letting them know she cheated, but not telling anyone who.

Staying in the M for 3 years until your daughter graduates only entitles your WW to more alimony, unless she suddenly starts a new gig making more money. If she doesn't have marketable skills, that is unlikely to happen.

I would suggest you start the 180 right away. Start to distance yourself.

GoldenR posted 10/7/2019 13:30 PM

I'm guessing this is going to be a tutorial in rugsweeping 101?

Anytime I see a "staying for the kids" story, I just smmfh. Life is short. Kids roll with the punches when it comes to change. They're resilient. Staying for the kids is an excuse to do nothing.

She has suffered zero consequences. And you've effectively shown her that she can fuck as many other men as she wants and not only will you not leave her, you will actually do nothing about it.

Expect more pain. She has no reason to stop.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 13:32 PM

Westway, I am sorry you are here and dealing with this situation.

I have to agree with Marz. Your WW spent six months cheating with three guys. And this is only what you can confirm. Do you have evidence that it only started 6 months ago? How can you be sure she wasn't cheating prior to that?

It seems to me that you can negotiate with your WW now to D, have her waive alimony in exchange for you keeping the reason for your D quiet, i.e. not telling anyone in her family. Or only letting them know she cheated, but not telling anyone who.

Staying in the M for 3 years until your daughter graduates only entitles your WW to more alimony, unless she suddenly starts a new gig making more money. If she doesn't have marketable skills, that is unlikely to happen.

I would suggest you start the 180 right away. Start to distance yourself.

There is alimony in Michigan but it is not mandatory or compulsory. Even though this is a no fault state my lawyer thinks that he can fight alimony by showing evidence she cheated. The judge will still most likely give my wife spousal support, but because her actions led to the breakdown of the marriage, he has the authority to restrict the alimony to a limited, specific time period, say three to five years. He will most likely not waive it altogether. That just isn't going to happen.

As for when her cheating started and how many men there have been, I'm not even going there. I know it will be a fool's errand, given how reticent she has been to even give me as much as she has given me to this point. At this point she is not going to tell me anything more than I already have proof of. That tells me there have been many more...maybe bunches of men over the years. Right now I can't absorb it. I'm barely holding it together as is. Maybe I will aske her these things a few months from now when I'm stronger.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 13:36 PM

I'm guessing this is going to be a tutorial in rugsweeping 101?

Maybe. But I'm not going to apologize for it to you or anyone on here. If you're trying to get my goad go elsewhere.

I don't need my wife to build me up and let me know what kind of man I am. The only humiliation that exists right now is in my emotions (which are temporary) and in her reality (which is permanent). She is the embodiment of humiliation. I will get over being humiliated. She will always be a slut.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 13:50 PM

She has suffered zero consequences. And you've effectively shown her that she can fuck as many other men as she wants and not only will you not leave her, you will actually do nothing about it.
Expect more pain. She has no reason to stop.

Heh heh. Nice try. You should be one of those tough love therapists you're so smart.

No you see it's really not that way at all. I told her if I find out she is sneaking out to see men again, her family will get copies of the dossier my P.I. put together. I'll send them out like a little flock of soiled doves to all her family and friends. I will burn her life to the ground. I will publicly humiliate her in front of everyone. She is scared out of her mind.

Last night she wandered into the kitchen while I was making myself a sandwich and asked me for probably the twentieth time in two weeks if I was going to tell her mom and dad and family what she did. I told her no...unless I find out she's going behind my back again. She said she is done with other men, and then she tried to hug me. I told her to stay the fuck away from me and that I have not decided what I will do yet in terms of divorcing her. I told her I was weighing my options.

That has pretty much been the extent of our interactions.

What has she suffered?

1) The ongoing threat of inevitability. If she so much as looks at another man her face is going up on the family billboard. She has been physically ill with worry since DDay and I'm going to let her stay that way and stew in it.

2) She has lost her best friend and the only person who has ever put up with her stupid, shallow, selfish Italian princess shit over the years and she knows it. Her brothers barely tolerate her. Her mom is a sociopath. Her dad is an ex-gangster. The only member of her family she is close to is her older sister, and her older sister is a bigger bimbo than she is.

3) She will; be forced to wait in limbo for me to decide what I will do. She knows that I am weighing the option of divorcing her now or waiting three years to walk. Of course she likes neither option. She wants me to stay with her. I told her she needs to get into some extreme therapy and find a counselor who won't take her bullshit, and she needs to go to counseling for a year or so before I ever even have the conversation about our future with her.


anoldlion posted 10/7/2019 13:51 PM

I'm going to tell you the same thing I've told others. By staying, you are wasting a very precious commodity...TIME. Every day you spend pretending is a day of your life you have wasted. It is a day you will never get back. If you are adamant about staying until your daughter goes to college, then tell your wife you now have an open marriage. She can do whatever she wants (as long as you are not paying for it) and you will be out doing the same. You will be in search for your next relationship. Something else, you are not giving your daughter much credit for being able in detecting what is happening in the house where she lives. Kids are a lot more savvy than grownups give them credit for. If she has 3 more years to go at home, believe me she is going to pick up on the truth. When I was 10 years old, or even younger, I could tell when something wasn't right between my parents. They were married for over 50 years but still had their marriage ups and downs like any marriage. When parents are happy and then suddenly things change, kids can tell. In fact, your daughter has already noticed something is wrong. I do wish you well.

Robert22205https posted 10/7/2019 13:54 PM

Another alternative is divorce now under favorable terms to you - and as part of the settlement, live together for 3 more years until your daughter graduates HS. Gives you immediate closure and locks down the divorce terms while your wife is the most flexible.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 14:00 PM

I'm going to tell you the same thing I've told others. By staying, you are wasting a very precious commodity...TIME. Every day you spend pretending is a day of your life you have wasted. It is a day you will never get back. If you are adamant about staying until your daughter goes to college, then tell your wife you now have an open marriage. She can do whatever she wants (as long as you are not paying for it) and you will be out doing the same. You will be in search for your next relationship. Something else, you are not giving your daughter much credit for being able in detecting what is happening in the house where she lives. Kids are a lot more savvy than grownups give them credit for. If she has 3 more years to go at home, believe me she is going to pick up on the truth. When I was 10 years old, or even younger, I could tell when something wasn't right between my parents. They were married for over 50 years but still had their marriage ups and downs like any marriage. When parents are happy and then suddenly things change, kids can tell. In fact, your daughter has already noticed something is wrong. I do wish you well.

No that open marriage thing won't happen. I have no desire to watch her leave three nights a week to go blow and fuck her line of men. If I have to live with her for three years and beat off to satisfy my urges then I can do that.

As for my daughter, she is so into her friends and pom-pom and schoolwork that she barely even notices her mom and I. If she asks if something is wrong I'll just tell her that her mom and I are going through a rough time and not to worry.

At some point I will have to let the wife back in the bedroom, but I'm staying on my side.

Westway posted 10/7/2019 14:01 PM

Another alternative is divorce now under favorable terms to you - and as part of the settlement, live together for 3 more years until your daughter graduates HS. Gives you immediate closure and locks down the divorce terms while your wife is the most flexible.

I have given this alternative serious thought also. Thank you.

Butforthegrace posted 10/7/2019 14:03 PM

The ongoing threat of inevitability.

I do agree with others that this sort of thing is ineffectual and a waste of time. I think the best advice you've received is to move quickly to divorce and leverage the threat of telling her family what she has done into a favorable divorce settlement. Strike while the iron is hot.

firenze posted 10/7/2019 14:12 PM

Full disclosure, raceplay gives me the creeps. I detest it. Even so, you're with a woman who has spent the last six months spending your money so that at least three other men can fuck her. If you're being honest, you know there's little doubt that she's been secretly getting her racial kink satisfied on the side for years, possibly the entire duration of your relationship. It's a small miracle that none of your kids came out biracial.

This is about as cut-and-dried as it ever gets. Use whatever tactics will get you the best divorce settlement possible and then get it done. If you still want to expose her after that, it's your call.

Trdd posted 10/7/2019 14:14 PM

Sorry for everything you are going through. It sounds like you have made your mind up to divorce but the question is now or in three years. Of course none of us knows the entire scenario like you do but I would consider ending the marriage sooner rather than later.

3 years in limbo will really do no one any good. I understand your daughter is heavily distracted by the high school experience but it would be hard to fathom the two of you being able to hide this well enough over three years time that it won't have an impact on her if you stay together. So it isn't like she is going to be in a loving home where everything is harmonious for these three years.

If the two of you divorce, then obviously she'll see a marriage that is falling apart. But she is going to see that sooner or later. I think younger people are strong enough to make it through divorce if the two parents do their best to continue to care for the kids. The plus side is that you can heal and move on. And hopefully your wife can as well. This way your daughter gets to see her parents moving forward rather than stewing in pain and resentment for three long years.

There are pros and cons each way but I tend to think that your healing and being whole again for yourself and for your daughter is more important than giving her a false marriage to observe during High School.

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