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He wants his AP after all. Gutted.

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heisasadcliche posted 11/23/2019 18:00 PM

Thanks Chamomile Tea, your point really helped. I've been thinking what I'd say to a friend if they were going through this & also what it might be like if it was the other way around...
[. I mean, if the shoe were on the other foot and it was you who had stuck a psychological knife in HIS back, I'm thinking he might think maybe a little work might be in order.]
I'm still sad but still know I must keep on.
X

Dispirited posted 11/23/2019 18:15 PM

This reminded me of one of the last things my WW said before leaving for the AP, that she made such a mess and felt like it was easier starting over with someone else. I don't know how being with your AP is starting over though

"easier"- obviously for those who create that "mess". Point is that many - for whatever reasons have to be with someone. Those who have some semblance of mental health will take a break- step back...perhaps take an emotional inventory.

Realistically, many can not or won't do so. I have always added a metaphor: Like dropping your baggage somewhere...hoping that somehow it might change.

Nonetheless...as most here would prescribe, you must determine - even with hurt and sadness- an often difficult plan. And that is to tell your former partner what you feel in your heart. No one can tell what you to do...yes- we can suggest, but utimately, your decision.

History. I had it- others as well. One might think that "history" would be a factor. There was no look into that.No issue. When people want to cheat OR impulsively think that other situations would be better, then I will pray for them. Laughingly, they are closed and I'm sure don't give a f..k:)


Nonetheless..hang in there- many here are on your side:)

heisasadcliche posted 11/24/2019 10:32 AM

Oh God. The worst afternoon, when your 19yr old son cries and talks about how he feels about his dad no words....

ShatteredSakura posted 11/24/2019 10:52 AM

((((heisasadcliche))))

His father ought to hear those words, maybe it'll jar some sense into the man.

Shockedmom posted 11/24/2019 22:36 PM

Iím so sorry. Your poor boy. Lean on each other as you navigate through the trauma.

tushnurse posted 11/25/2019 07:06 AM

((((Cliche))))

Get him into some therapy ASAP.

This is hard stuff. No matter how old your kids are. This is speaking from experience my H's parents D'd after we were married, and he could have benefited from some therapy.

heisasadcliche posted 11/27/2019 13:54 PM

Did you have times when the whole end of you relationship felt surreal? I know it's a fact but can't quite get my head around what is happening to me right now. How has it come to this? 25years + 4 dating. Literally all my adult life, and he's gone. Also sad and mad at his shitty behaviour.
Bewildered really, the pain he's caused us all is incredible. And now we are reduced to civilised emails about money and house selling...

self-rescuer posted 11/27/2019 18:35 PM

Yes, sweet friend, the end was unbelievable.

From partners, companions, lovers and best friends (26 yrs married + 2 yrs dating) to legal adversaries.

The person I made every adult decision with was now across the table from me - in the attorney's office.

It is such a bewildering time.

My suggestion is to rally your IRL circle and slog on. These are important days that will impact the rest of your financial life so you must stay focused.

Your heart will be puzzled but your head must stay clear.

You will get to the other side and know peace and joy but you will need to be brave and march through this formidable terrain first.

You are strong and courageous. We are behind you.

ChamomileTea posted 11/27/2019 21:37 PM

Even in R, it still feels surreal. It's like some pod-person stole your dear one away. To not even be sorry though, to not feel any remorse... I can't begin to connect with that. I'm sorry.

I think the only thing you can really do is look at him as he is TODAY; unrepentant, unable to empathize with the people who loved him most. It's probable that he'll eventually find himself alone and unloved, because deeply selfish people who aren't willing to change have nothing to offer in the long run. I'm sorry for that. And I'm sorry for the pain it causes you because you really did care about him.

But you can't change him. You can only change yourself and how you react to him.

((big hugs)) You're going to get through this. Believe it to be so and it WILL be so.


ETA: I've never recommended this before.. but consider making room in your life for meeting other men. You don't need to act on anything unless/until you meet someone great. But I think it might lift your spirits to just do some talking. Your WH wasn't God's give to womanhood. And sure, there are players out there, so you'll want to be prudent. But there really are wonderful men out in the world, who have been done just as hard by as you have, and who are starting over, just like you are. Get into a support group. Join some online sites. Open your eyes when you're out and about so you can check out the guy who's eyeballing your bum. I think you'll find yourself surprised to find out how noticeable you are.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 9:46 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

UneedToSmile posted 11/29/2019 21:17 PM

Heisasadcliche....my two teenage daughters hate their dad for what heís done. I asked him to listen to them, he got angry and sent them to their rooms! Hope yours goes better. I thought for sure that it would pull at his heart-strings, but no....anything that makes him feel guilty just makes him mad. Heís an asshole rug-sweeper. He threatens getting an apartment all the time and when I agree that would be great, he says he doesnít want to talk. My WH has always been proud of his strength....but man, heís really just a huge wuss! Iím sorry for you and your kids. I hate how similar all of these stories are! So frustrating!!! Prayers for you!

heisasadcliche posted 12/3/2019 16:09 PM

So, no more limbo, I am going to divorce him. I have submitted the application form online.

I re read the threads, emails and messages from him alongside my diary of the last 8 weeks. It still feels like I am reading about someone else, but no- this is my life. It helped to do this- I saw again what I had been put through; the disregard and squandering of the chances I gave us, his lack of serious intent, his needs ... Now I feel as if I have become my own again.

It is strange, to be so unfettered, to not be always, always, thinking about him and us. To think just of me and my sons and whatever is round the next turn to be dealt with. I am not alone, my amazing friends are still doing their amazingness and I know the storm will pass. I guess I'll be posting in the future as this rollercoaster ride has a way to go yet. Xxxx

tushnurse posted 12/3/2019 17:25 PM

Congrats on getting yourself out of infidelity!!!!
It doesnt seem like it yet but this was a strong and powerful decision. You know you are making yourself and the kids a priority. That's important. Remember to do something kind for just you every single day.

(((And strength))))

ShutterHappy posted 12/3/2019 17:39 PM

heisasadcliche

I havenít read the whole thread, but about the subject line... try to reframe your thinking...

Imagine you had a house for 25 years, a house that you love. But now you find out the house has mice problems, termites, and the foundation is cracked. Furthermore, a brand new landfill site opened down the street. The house is unsellable. But here comes a woman that thinks your house is great and wants to buy it at any price. Can you believe your luck???

Your WH prefers the AP? Donít be gutted. Rejoice, you are getting rid of a cheater.

I got rid of a cheater, eventually got remarried and am quite happy. You donít see it now, but I promise that you live will improve greatly.

I wish you the best!

heisasadcliche posted 12/5/2019 17:00 PM

Oh God, why is this so very hard? 17yr old has said he'd like counselling to help him deal with everything. He says I am being great, but he's stressed and wants to talk... I get why he needs to do this. But what breaks my heart is the was he speaks of his disappointment in his dad. I asked him what word came to mind when he thought of him and he said 'c***'. I am utterly devastated for him. Not sure what you can do for me but I can't share this anywhere else and think I'll need to tell WH so he can be aware of the situation. Son feels his dad is oblivious to the real depth of damage caused to us all. I am trying so hard to encourage contact, to tell him his dad still loves him, that all his childhood was not based on a lie, that it WAS good for so much of it, right up til recently. But I feel his pain, want his dad to try harder, even if he gets rebuffed, want him to reach out more....want to smash his face in for doing this to my precious boys. Their pain is the worst thing to see and WH hopes they will 'be happy again' FGS. Sorry, rant over.

ChamomileTea posted 12/5/2019 17:20 PM

I think your best bet would be to simply help your son set up therapy and then step back. He's unlikely to truly absorb your reassurances because you're his mom and of course, you're going to say he's lovable. And any excuses that are wrung out of his father are likely to taste like dust on his tongue. The words don't match the deeds, you see. Your WH really turned out to be that guy, the guy who shits on his wife and family, then bails. When we try to convince our kids that they're not seeing what they're clearly seeing, they're watching us try to apply lipstick to a pig. We lose credibility.

Believe it or not, a third party in the form of a competent therapist can sometimes soothe where we parents cannot. Your son is dealing with a whole new, and wholly unpleasant reality. Things aren't what he thought. People aren't what he thought. There's no good way to gussy that up which doesn't ring false. But a good therapist can help him develop coping techniques to deal with his disappointment in a healthy way and to develop good boundaries with toxic people so that he can avoid future problems.

heisasadcliche posted 12/5/2019 17:32 PM

Thanks CTea. I do struggle to know what to say about WH behavior to them, apart from as little as possible now. I agree ' he's still your dad' sounds lame in the face of his actions. Hearing what you have to say on this is helpful, I just didn't know what to say for right or wrong. Their world has been changed and he is/has been a shit right now. It's hard to walk the line between honesty, shielding them or slating him (not hard given his actions) I just didn't want to make it any harder. This is all so rubbish...x

k8la posted 12/5/2019 22:14 PM

Do not step into the role of telling your son his father loves him. You can't know that and your son knows it. Stop rescuing your STBX from the consequences of his bad behavior toward his family.

Teach your son emotional containment/mastery so that he can remain "respectful" of the man who gave him life, but do not emotionally obligate him to have any further connection than that. He's old enough to decide for himself.

I cringe every time I see divorcing betrayed spouses try to sooth their children by saying, "Mommy AND Daddy love you." You've been fired from speaking for your husband. It's time he deals with the loss of that relationship in ALL aspects. Stop protecting him from those very necessary consequences he must feel, because if he doesn't, he will never make the amends to your son. He won't feel enough of the loss to recognize it was him who caused the estrangement.

ChamomileTea posted 12/5/2019 22:18 PM

It puts us in a tough position when our kids are nearly grown and fully capable of understanding the facts. Because the facts aren't nice. We teach our children the value of honesty from birth. We teach them that it's wrong to lie, to cheat, to take that which is not their own, to be unkind. And then they are expected to throw all that hard-won knowledge out the window and accept the pathetic excuses of a parent who has made a deliberate hypocrite of himself. And we, the betrayed, are supposed to encourage a relationship with this toxic specimen, otherwise, we're accused of undermining.

I am more fortunate in that my WH pulled his head out of his ass. Still, there is a loss of respect which has never been fully restored. And to be honest, that's not something I feel like I need to be involved in correcting. What their father did was NOT respectable. I shouldn't like them to ever think it was, even though at the worst of it, I had to put my foot down regarding civility.

I think what it came down to for me was being consistent in the lessons I've taught them all their lives, and that would include civility in their discourse. So, for your purposes, you're still teaching the same lessons regarding good values and good grace. But you're not endorsing the poor character of your WH by insisting that the children ignore the hypocrisy he's displayed and become emotionally vulnerable with him. It's okay, even preferable, for your kids to notice toxic behavior in others and to strategize against emulating it themselves. But it's not okay to behave in ways which betray their own values while doing so. "He's still your father" then translates to "we maintain a civil discourse when speaking to other human beings".

I can't command fatherly respect for my WH. I wouldn't even if I could. But I can command a more general type of respect, the civility we owe to our fellow man.

nekonamida posted 12/6/2019 07:15 AM

Your WH really turned out to be that guy, the guy who shits on his wife and family, then bails. When we try to convince our kids that they're not seeing what they're clearly seeing, they're watching us try to apply lipstick to a pig. We lose credibility.

This is so true.

Heisasadcliche, just listen when your son talks. Validate him. You don't have to mudsling your STBXWH but you also don't have to defend him. A neutral ear is what your son needs and he's so smart and mature to look for that in a therapist.

tushnurse posted 12/6/2019 07:40 AM

Do you realize how wonderful it is that your son feels safe, and trusts you enough to come to you and ask for this?
It is pretty major for a kid his age to do this.

Be proud for him. Call his Dr (even if it's a pediatrician) and ask for referrals to therapists that specialize in teens dealing with trauma. It is a somewhat specialized group.

I agree don't apologize for his father, just let him know that he has caused pain to all of the family, not just you. What he chooses to do w/ it is his own problem not yours.

Also start to document this shit, in case he decides to try to not be kind in the D process, you need to show that he is also being a shitty father during this period.

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