SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know I am ok with not being everyone’s cup of tea.

It, however, is what my WH wanted.

Why would it matter if someone wanted to have sex with you? If you’re there to sell widgets to a widget shopper, how does being sexually desirable matter?

Why would it matter if someone wanted to have sex with you?

I can give this one a shot. Why does it matter? Because it's rare, difficult to get, and extremely valuable (if, of course, you highly value sex). I would say, the best way to think about it, it's like money. What makes it valuable? Scarcity and the power it conveys. It gives you options. It provides comfort. And people get into the same "chase" with money, have more than they could ever spend, and still go after more because "more" is always better. But, if we keep it in money terms, one of the first things your financial guru will tell you when you first make big bucks is "diversify". Make sure you always have a source of money, that way when you need it/want it, it's available for you. When I was younger and dating, I viewed women in a similar way, make sure you have someone lined up, have options, and aren't too dependent on any one woman to get what you want. So that sexual desire, to me anyway, was a way to feel secure that I could get what I wanted from multiple people if need be.

No, not everyone needs people to desire them sexually. And I suspect it's difficult for many women to understand because sexual desire is kind of a "given", it's always there, from multiple angles, at any point of any day. At least for me, it was nothing like that, I had to work to generate it, and once created, it was very valuable to me because it was difficult to get, scarce and required a lot of effort on my part.

Now that I'm not looking for sex, I honestly don't care if women find me attractive or not anymore. And, because I'm no longer looking for it, I don't find it. Takes a lot of effort, at least for me, to find a sexual partner, it's not something that happens automatically, not at all.

Being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse it is the last thing on my mind whether I’m desirable to someone or not

I would rather have an emotional connection before a sexual connection.

RideItOut,

I am familiar with the manosphere take. It does indeed seem it would be great, for a man, to be desired as easily as women seem to find it.

But that is from a male point of view. First of course there is the assault/rape issue. Outside of prison, men are very unlikely to ever be at risk of physical assault or rape. Women not the case.

Also, the whole basis for sexuality is different. Men's sexuality is often very regular. Another day, another erection. It would not be difficult for me to easily enjoy sex with fully half of the women on the planet, were they available to me.

A woman gets up to start her day, her sexual frame of reference is completely different. She doesn't walk through the day the way a man would, having her regular hard on and always finding an attractive man to look at. It is simply not the same experience for them. Yes it would be great for a man to be as sexually desired as a woman... while still being a man. That's not the way it works.

So I think it's different for women, and I don't know at the end of the day if they're any happier than men. I suspect not. Men need to work to get sex, that is true, but I think they are more easily satisfied, with the obvious release that completion of sex (for a man) brings. I have had women have great orgasms, seen it, but the hormones, body parts for them are completely different and obviously there is not the same drive to completion and simple satisfaction that there is for a man.

As a man I sometimes think that even our language is inadequate to describe female experience. That language was invented and as such is too male centric. I don't even mean that in a women's lib sense, don't want to go there, I just am conscious now that male point-of-view can be subversive as well as obvious.

I think RIO has this nailed on, one of the issues in my M was I always had to initiate and sometimes felt that my W had sex with me to keep me happy and not because she needed/wanted it.

D post

[This message edited by Buzzy at 3:08 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)]

Crazyblindsided-

Same background. My father sexualized me, the minute I hit puberty. I developed breast early. Later came the neighbor boys having their way with me...then there were 40-year-old pedos exclaiming how they want to fuck my 15-year-old self. More than half of women have a background like this...being objectified is awsome...not. nothing shy of predatory.

My STBX withheld (as you know), while chasing young hookers of differing ethnicities. These very reasons are why women don't pursue men... inviting a stranger over or going to his place is flipping terrifying. All of this just verified that men like it real nice and young because it represents naivety...meaning easy to manipulate. It's a hard pill to swallow, when all the "men" in your life abused you, while demonstrating that women have an expiration date.

Yeah women have it "easy", alright.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 3:15 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)]

I think woman have it easy ONLY in the sense that if they want a sexual partner, a ONS, an affair it is far easier than it is for a man. All your other points are spot on.

I would rather have an emotional connection before a sexual connection.

same. and that is why it's hard to see the other side's perspective. IT makes no sense to me and ours likely to them.

same. and that is why it's hard to see the other side's perspective. IT makes no sense to me and ours likely to them.

Actually, I'd disagree a little here. I used to see female sexuality a lot like posters here are describing, a "flipping terrifying" experience because of the inherent size difference and potential consequences. Not hard to get, but not desired very much/at all, something done for the man in the relationship and "taken" from the woman. And that seemed to fit my experience well, it was always a challenge to get sex for me, and yes, some women did appear a little "afraid" of either me or the consequences of sex, especially in a ONS. But everything lined up pretty nicely with the "conventional" world view, women want an emotional connection before sex; don't want sex as much as men, etc.. It all made "sense".

Until her affair. Then it stopped making any sense at all. She did all manner of really "dangerous" things with him, far more dangerous than she ever did with me. The "emotional connection" amounted to a bunch of lines kicked her way. He never intended to leave his wife, in fact, it was easily clear to me reading the TXT's that my W was a "side" for him.

And that's why it becomes hard to understand when I read things like what you posted, needing/wanting the "emotional" connection and then looking in the place (an A) that's absolutely the least likely (non-paid) relationship type you could ever get into for an emotional connection. Say one thing, do another (not directed at you, my W would say/have said the same thing, so this is about her stance that she needs "an emotional connection" not yours).

All of this just verified that men like it real nice and young because it represents naivety...meaning easy to manipulate.

Speaking for myself, being attracted to younger women has nothing at all to do with naivety, it's entirely a biological response. My attraction to older women, in fact, is because they are more experienced! But I've never wanted a partner who's "easy to manipulate", I wanted a partner who sexually excited me. And sadly, fertility and sexual attraction are linked. I'll stand right beside you and say "it's not fair" all day long, because, it's not fair at all. But it's not men (or at least, in my personal case, me) liking a good naive woman to take to bed, it's the biological attraction to fertile women; much like women have the same attraction to powerful men. I think we'd all be much happier if we weren't "wired" this way, but we are, so we have to understand it and make sure we don't let those biological urges control us. Best analogy I can draw, we are all wired to kill too, the vast majority of us do not. But that desire, much like the male desire for young women, is a holdover of a time long past (where violence was the only path forward and when women were nothing but breeders). It's sad, and perhaps that will eventually fall away from humanity, but it's going to take a long, long time for evolution to work it's magic here.

Well done folks, one post in and completely treadjacked this topic with gender stereotypes.

Why would it matter if someone wanted to have sex with you? If you’re there to sell widgets to a widget shopper, how does being sexually desirable matter?

Because people are wack!

I like to be considered attractive, but not necessarily sexually desired. Attractiveness is about more than physical appearance.

There are biological gender differences. Males have an almost constant sex drive because they can produce many offspring without much effort.

Women, otoh, have a cyclical sex drive that is controlled by ever changing hormone levels. That is because we can produce offspring only at very finite times and invest much more time and energy into the process. I'm not saying that women don't like to have sex all the time. I'm saying that a woman's sex drive waxes and wanes depending on where she is in her fertile cycle. The reason some women maybe don't want to have sex all the time may not be fear. It may be that they have more to invest in the outcome.

My fch can detect when I'm fertile. I don't know it's pheromone scent or what, but he gets a lot more frisky when I'm in the fertile phase of my cycle.

Well done folks, one post in and completely treadjacked this topic with gender stereotypes.

Ha ha, and I'm transgender again.

Original idea is that not everyone needs people to desire them sexually. Unless I were looking to manipulate people at work and not use my skills and brain to succeed, I can't understand why I'd want my coworkers to want to have sex with me. That doesn't seem healthy.

If I am out and see an attractive man, I think it would be great if he desires me sexually. If I'm on a date with someone I find attractive, then I'm on board with being desired.

It's all context. Anyone who wants to be desired in every facet of their lives has a problem. And probably awkward family reunions as well.

As a WS, this is going to seem odd but I don't think I feel I have this as a need exactly. I think many of our wants are about scarcity. If we have plenty of food, we don't think about getting more food. Same with clothing, money, or anything else. From my standpoint, there are many men (definitely no where close to all - I believe there are many other men who really like having emotional connection before sex or have higher standards) would sleep with anyone half decent. So it doesn't make me feel special if someone would want to have sex with me especially if they didn't know me. There is no scarcity of sex for me, so it's not something I have to think about how to get or how to achieve.

When I had an affair, it wasn't about sex, there was no scarcity there. I am not even sure it was about emotional connection. What I had a scarcity of was happiness and good feelings, that I should have been creating for myself. The sex was just part of the affair. Likely the AP had his own missing piece, I don't know what it was, if you listened to him he claimed a scarcity of sex. I think it was he was probably one of the most insecure men I have ever met. So, perhaps if he was needing someone to desire him sexually it went back to that insecurity. Who knows, I really don't care what he was doing there, but I speculate here because he is the other gender in the equation.

That's kind of a different question than do I want my husband to find me attractive? Yes, I absolutely want my husband to find me attractive. I find him attractive too. One day we will be wrinkly and old, but we have always had good chemistry so I think I will still think he's got it then too. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't know why that is a need or a want, or if it's healthy or not healthy. It may just be a personal preference thing. I am not sure it's about sex, but if he stopped wanting to have sex with me without some sort of medical issue, then I would see it as a red flag that something wasn't working in our relationship. I believe sex and other forms of intimacy is marital glue and can become a barometer of a relationship. Am I right? I have no idea but it is something we both believe and conduct our marriage under that belief.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:13 AM, November 13th (Wednesday)]

There is no scarcity of sex for me, so it's not something I have to think about how to get or how to achieve.

This basically sums it up IMHO. It's all about scarcity and, of course, how much you value the scarce "thing". I don't have any 50ct diamonds laying around the house, so, even though they are scarce, I don't desire them very much, so I don't feel any longing for them. And for my wife, sex is neither scarce (she could have 20 sexual partners today if she wanted without any effort at all) or desired (she has all she wants already), hence, not a lot of sexual motivation.

if you listened to him he claimed a scarcity of sex.

Shocked, just shocked. Yeah, not so much, every single male cheat I've known personally in my entire life, this is the "the issue". It's not "fallen out of love" or "fell in love with someone new" it's always, 100% of the time, sex. And if nothing else, it does make sense, want sex, affairs provide sex, have an affair. A-B-C relationship. Not RIGHT, not at all, but logical.

That's kind of a different question than do I want my husband to find me attractive?

I think this is perhaps where things break down a little for me. Sure, it would be great if my W found me attractive, but, honestly, it's more about her showing me she values me. Does she find me attractive? IDK, none of us do or ever will, we can't read minds. But I can look at her actions and draw my own conclusions. The real desire though, isn't "think I'm hot" it's "show me that I'm hot". And, of course, the way that happens for me is mostly sexual, I won't generalize, but I doubt I'm the only one who sees it that way.

I think this is perhaps where things break down a little for me. Sure, it would be great if my W found me attractive, but, honestly, it's more about her showing me she values me. Does she find me attractive? IDK, none of us do or ever will, we can't read minds. But I can look at her actions and draw my own conclusions. The real desire though, isn't "think I'm hot" it's "show me that I'm hot". And, of course, the way that happens for me is mostly sexual, I won't generalize, but I doubt I'm the only one who sees it that way.

Of course. I can see what you are saying here. I wasn't really trying to say that's all I want my husband to value me for, it was more geared towards the question why do people need others to desire them sexually. I was only acknowledging that I do want that from my husband. And he wants that from me. Being attracted to each other to me is part of that. I am sure that all those good qualities outside of finding him attractive lends more towards me feeling open to him sexually. Despite the affair, he and I have always had this harmonious thing between us. We have similar sensibilities, often find ourselves in the same mood for staying in, or going out, or working on a project, etc. There is little drama in our relationship and generally speaking outside of the couple of years prior to the affair, we've always had a mutual appreciation for each other and what we contribute. So, I am sure that lends itself to sex in quite a big way.

But, I also think we want to be each other's sweethearts, and him thinking I am pretty or me thinking he is handsome is also kind of part of that. And, again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We could get disfigured, or anything could happen. What's certain is we will get older and all that entails. Attraction is definitely more than skin deep - so of course - I don't mean that's the only reason sex works in our relationship. I was being a little one dimensional due to the topic at hand.

But, in a vaccumn, someone who wants to have sex with me? There is no validation I get from that. As a young person I was devalued and sexualized. I have no desire to go back to that. In having an affair, I did the same thing - I went back and let myself be devalued and sexualized. It's sickening.

Also, for the record, RIO - I don't even know the AP had an actual scarcity of sex. I think this is often just a cover story to get more sex.

Why would it matter if someone wanted to have sex with you?

I didn't need sexual desire from every man I crossed paths with. Honestly, sometimes when a guy wanted me, I was creeped out.

However, I did have low self esteem in my teens and twenties and stupidly put a lot of focus on sexual desire. I wanted men to want me. It made me feel attractive, powerful, etc. I did stupid things so they would want me. Took risks that were dumb. Don't get me wrong, I had some fun as well, but it was all due to low self esteem and all very superficial.

Fast forward to my mid 30s, that changed. I only wanted attention from one man, my WH. When he stopped showing interest in me sexually, it bothered me, a lot. I though it was due to my age, gaining weight, etc. Now I know it was really due to his extra curricular activities. It hurt though, deeply.

Of course I want to be valued as a person, above all else, but I also want to be desired by the right person.

Why would it matter if someone wanted to have sex with you? If you’re there to sell widgets to a widget shopper, how does being sexually desirable matter?

Today, after a long self discovery process, brought about my W's A, not really. I don't define myself by others opinions anymore. (See co-dependence)

Rewind a few years to my single days ? Yes it wasn't just something that "mattered," it become an obsessive focus for me. It drove a lot of behaviors that I just shake my head at today.

I learned my value was based on what lengths a female would go to impress me. Also what they were willing to give me. I in turn tried to collect those things like some people collect stamps.

Call it throw spaghetti at the wall approach. Some of the spaghetti sticks, but some doesn't. The more spaghetti I throw at the wall the more chances I had to reap the validation that came from it. It was a numbers game.

The ultimate validation was when a woman told me that she desired me, "in that way." I think that, more than the act itself, was more pleasurable. Yeah not my finest moments.

This will sound bad, but it really didn't matter too much what else was there. Looks ? Crazy ? Already had a boyfriend ? It is not like I would consider them for a long term relationship anyway. Validation was all equal. I desperately I needed all I could get from anyone who feigned enough interest for my mind to make up the rest.

The thing is that I learned some very poignant lessons along the way that made me self aware I was even doing that. As I matured I found other places to earn praise/validation. Work. Neighbors. Friends.

I was a validation junkie. It took me to really look at myself and wonder why I gave so much power to literally everyone I met. It was the illusion of a fake ego built upon everyone else, but myself.

I do not want random people to desire me sexually, frankly. That's creepy. I am a person, not an object.

I want my partners to desire me sexually. I am open to engaging sexually in FWB type relationships or BDSM play partners or the like. But random strangers? No. They can be thinking whatever they want, but I don't want to hear anything about it and I definitely have no desire to be desired by randoms.

If you don't know me, then I'm just a random body with holes for you to use. I find that pretty revolting.

I don't want to be sexually desirable to any man or woman. As others have posted, there is too much negativity around being sexualized or being objectified.

It makes one a thing, a hole for someone to take pleasure out of and as crude as that is, that is all it would represent for me.

There would be no personalization, no recognition of an individual soul, no sense of humanization.

I have known destructive, demon women who use their sex and their ability to create desire from men, to destroy them.

I want to be desired for my mind, my personality, my loyal, trusting, kind soul. But being rejected, in a way, by my WH, who only wanted SEX, SEX, SEX, Ego Kibbles and KISA, where does that leave me? or any of us BS?

I want us to evolve to a higher plane of consciousness and not have it be just about a bunch of mammals going at it to give into the whims of prehistoric pro-creation instincts.