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Being transparent thought

Kitt posted 11/13/2019 14:12 PM

Every now and then I look at the WS post.

Something I have seen a lot of is WS becoming transparent - Unlocking their phones, giving passwords, ect.

Most of the replies are along the line of
"well that great, but that's a bare minimal"
And it really is a bare minimal. And maybe my thoughts on it might help some other WS find out why that is so.

The thing is, it does not mean anything. My WW and I both had complete transparency on our emails, phones, location history, browser history, laptops, ect. prior to her A. I would even check it from time to time.

But I didn't find anything when the affair was going on, I suspected things, but they were things out of place, nothing of proof.

Even after finding out about the A. I look thru everything, and guess what, it was not for months that I found out that she was going to the bars with him.

The transparency is just a step in the right direction. It's far from a trust step. I had full transparency before, and she still was able to have the A.

landclark posted 11/13/2019 14:18 PM

I agree with you. I could have accessed his phone anytime but he was using a secret phone, Private browsing that wasn’t tracked, secret Facebook, secret snapchat and secret email. I wouldn’t have had access to any of that by simple accessing his phone.

He offered to delete Facebook at first but honestly, removing the access doesn’t remove the temptation, so it’s kind of pointless.

hikingout posted 11/13/2019 14:49 PM

Yes, I am one of the WS who often says that's the bare minimum. I understand why it's a requirement of R for most, and don't disagree with it. The temptation could still be great for acting out or taking the A underground.

But, it's not the work that makes you safe. So, when a WS says they are doing that, I don't even want to acknowledge it as any work or something that is hard. Likely they are just being compliant. Compliance has a place, sure, but it will not fix your problems and it certainly won't rebuild your marriage.

Justgetitoverwith posted 11/13/2019 14:57 PM

Agreed. For me, it was only to see if he would agree to it. I strongly suspect at least one secret email, and if he's done that, there's probably other things too. Would not be surprised if he has (or had) a burner phone. Once you start all the secret shit with A, I think the rest becomes natural. And they are never ever going to admit to those. Which means they'll be there to be picked back up later...

Becoming transparent us just a meaningless catchphrase. Any experienced BS knows it's real worth.

Darkness Falls posted 11/13/2019 15:00 PM

Agreed—in this day and age, it’s too easy to hide secret modes of communication, even if one is free and open with their “clean” method.

PSTI posted 11/13/2019 17:13 PM

I don't know. I have mixed thoughts about transparency in general.

I think that everyone should be entitled to privacy. I don't look through my husband's phone or computer, and he doesn't look through mine. There's a difference between privacy and secrecy.

I think that everyone needs a little bit of space that is just theirs. I don't think that being married means no privacy- I think that can be codependent.

I also recognize the lack of trust with a WS, and I don't really know how to solve that one. I would not want to feel like I was policing my spouse by requiring transparency. I'm not his boss or his parole officer and that sets me up as a gatekeeper, and I'm not okay with that. But I'm not sure how you can solve that and rebuild trust at the same time. Maybe that's why R was never really an option for us.

So I guess the ramble is that I don't think transparency is a minimum... I think it works for some and not for others but some kind of balance needs to be found. I would never really be okay with giving up my privacy, although on the other hand, I don't cheat.

cocoplus5nuts posted 11/14/2019 06:31 AM

It is a minimum, and it doesn't really mean anything. My fch gave me full transparency from dday1. He was still able to stay in contact with the MOW. I probably wouldn't have known the EA went on for another month after dday1 if he hadn't told me.

Transparency doesn't mean you are constantly policing your partner. It means that you can. I don't look through my fch's phone. He has a lock 9n it. He's told me the code several times, but I can never remember it. He also has a work phone that I am not allowed to look through because it might have sensitive info on it that, by law, I am not supposed to see. And, of course, he's gone every day from about 5 am to about 7:30 pm at the gym and then work. I've never checked up on him, so he could be anywhere doing who knows what.

I have a lock code on my phone, too. I have to so that my youngest doesn't take it and use it. I'm pretty sure I've told my fch what it is. Even if I haven't, it's my usual one,so he could easily figure it out. I don't care if he looks at it. I'm not doing anything that I don't want him to know about.

The point in full transparency is that it's, hopefully, a sign that the CP is truly committed to being a safe partner. You can't be sure when someone agrees to it, bit you sure as hell can be sure when someone doesn't.

J707 posted 11/14/2019 08:16 AM

It should be available to a BS. After Dday last year, I found a lot of things in her email that tied some things together. I wasn't checking before that because I had no reason to, I trusted her. After Dday, that trust was gone, game on. We didn't R and I filed for D. She was so mad at me for going through her email, finding evidence. It should be available since the WS broke the trust, at the minimum. But if the cheater wants to cheat, they will find there way, they'll just get sneakier.

dblackstar2002 posted 11/14/2019 08:40 AM

You know I hate to put it this way, But some people talk about their cheater like they are kids. These are grown women and men who knew completely what the heck they were doing. Just my opinion, But buying books for them to read, Telling them how much they hurt you? Lie detector tests,Things like this are pointless. Trust me thy knew It would hurt you, At the time they put their lust and selfish desire ahead of you and their family. No the only thing you have to ask yourself is, Is this the type of person I want to are should choose to spend the rest of my life with? Just my opinion.....

hikingout posted 11/14/2019 08:41 AM

My H is an IT person, so I never had any illusions if he went looking he could get what he was after. He's actually always had my passwords, not because he cared, but I use the same ones over and over again. After the A, we discussed some of that, and he turned on the website tracking thing on our home internet. I don't know if he really looks at any of it but it doesn't bother me if he does. I don't really feel there is anything I need privacy over.

Again, that's still a perceived transparency. He can't see my thoughts, or behaviors when I am not around him. That's the reason that it's the bare minimum. The work that a WS needs to do is often pretty extensive and I think it's visible if that's being done or not. At least it's been that way for us. I do think with a lot of time and consistency a big part of the trust can be earned back. I don't think H will ever trust me blindly again, but I am okay with that. Being accountable and transparent to me doesn't feel like a consequence. It feels more like something I willingly give for something I want way more.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/14/2019 08:44 AM

WH here, hope you don't mind throwing in my thoughts...

If someone is really smart they can hide all sorts of stuff - burner phones, fake social media, incognito mode, pay cash, etc.

I was bad at covering my digital footprints. I didn't even have a password on my phone. I think most people are more like me than the super spies out there. We are sloppy and get complacent.

In a lot of ways if my BW had taken a moment during my A she would have discovered it within a few clicks either on my phone, computer or by looking at our phone bill, my company credit card, etc. Yes I was that bad about it.

4 years later, my BW doesn't go through my phone or computer that often, although I know she can. We are reconciled and she knows when I am off, or not being forthcoming and she calls me out each and everytime. After 30 years she knows me, the difference is now she doesn't ignore any warning signs.....

Oh yeah, the point is that most of us choose to ignore the signs that something is not right.

MrsWalloped posted 11/14/2019 08:57 AM

I’m a WW. I think the transparency part is not an isolated thing. A BS should add that to all the other things they’re looking at about their WS. If the WS is just complying then I think the BS will see that in other behaviors.

Anyway, I think there’s a more important point to it. An A is all about lying and hiding. I think it’s about an attitude change and a mindset change. After DDay I got a new phone that my BH would check. He checked online accounts, emails things like that. I’d tell him where I was, where I went. If I was late I’d call him and let him know. He asked me questions that I had to answer. I was living a life of transparency when for months I didn’t. It was a slow change of my thinking. I think for my BH that was where the real value was. I was thinking about him and be accountable for what I was doing.

DevastatedDee posted 11/14/2019 10:04 AM

4 years later, my BW doesn't go through my phone or computer that often, although I know she can. We are reconciled and she knows when I am off, or not being forthcoming and she calls me out each and everytime. After 30 years she knows me, the difference is now she doesn't ignore any warning signs.....

It worries me to read that. Warning signs? Like you can't control yourself and you just slip into a danger zone and she has to keep an eye out for it? Why should she have to do that?

Oldwounds posted 11/14/2019 10:26 AM

I had all the passwords and access to social media stuff, but about a year in recovery I didn't want play private detective anymore.

There isn't anything anyone can do to 'make' someone faithful.

Any sense of control over another human and their choices is always an illusion at best, and not something I was ever interested in anyway.

The only thing we can control is our response to adversity.

I don't expect my wife will venture down that personal spiral ever again, but if she does, I'm good with who I am -- be it married or solo.

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