"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

This0is0Fine posted 12/11/2019 15:17 PM

I posted this first to reddit and they pointed me to these forums. Since my SO isn't here I can reveal more details.

My (35M) wife (37F) has emotionally cheated on me at work. We are married for almost ten years (this month woo ten year anniversary, HA).

About two months ago she went on a business trip and went out each night with a male coworker who is married and has kids. The highest escalation of physical contact my wife said happened was holding hands. She told me this out of the blue without me asking her. I have reason to believe this is true though not 100%.

She apologized deeply for it and said she would cut off any more romantic entanglement. Over the next month she texted him over a thousand times, I know because I checked my phone bill to get a summary. Therefore, I haven't read those texts. They may or may not be deleted. I'm asking for them tonight after some soul searching.

After confronting her about this, she and him agreed to delete each other from their phones. Recently, they had their holiday party. My wife stayed out late. She lied to me about who she was with claiming to be with a female coworker. I know she was with him and he invited her to stay the night (she declined and came home, I know this via intercepted FB messages on a shared computer), but once again nothing "physical" happened even prior to this (it seems based on their conversation with each other about how they are both happy they held back).

We had already scheduled couples counseling after the first confrontation, but due to low availability of counselors, our first meeting isn't til the end of the month.

It's our tenth year anniversary on the 20th, and we are going on a trip starting next week. I plan to confront her about what I know. I know everything isn't going to be sorted out. I know it's going to hurt, but I don't want this shit hanging over me on a family trip for our anniversary and Christmas.

How do I confront her about this again in a healthy way? Should I ask her to cut all contact with him? Get a new job?

EDIT: Fun tacked on fact, my father passed away two weeks ago, and she did an amazing job to help get me through it.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 3:19 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

thatbpguy posted 12/11/2019 15:25 PM

The highest escalation of physical contact my wife said happened was holding hands. She told me this out of the blue without me asking her. I have reason to believe this is true though not 100%.

Then...

She apologized deeply for it and said she would cut off any more romantic entanglement. Over the next month she texted him over a thousand times...

Aaaaaaaand this...

Recently, they had their holiday party. My wife stayed out late. She lied to me about who she was with claiming to be with a female coworker.

See a pattern here?

I do.

The pattern is that she is not being honest with you in any way, shape or form.

Aside from confronting her lies, I would be inclined to contact the OM's wife and ask what he has told her about this. She has a right to know. Also, I would tell your wife you are going to let the marriage and any possible reconciliation hang on a polygraph as to if holding hands is the extent of their relationship. She needs to come clean right now.

Be aggressive and get to the bottom of this. Once that is done, you have a basis as to R if you want to.

This0is0Fine posted 12/11/2019 15:28 PM

I don't know what a basis to R is. Is this having to do with separation or divorce? I live in a no-fault state.

I have already contacted the other man's wife. She has not responded. I don't know. Maybe she blocked me. I don't have her phone number, but I was able to find her facebook. I don't have facebook so I had to create a new account to contact her. She could be pretty sketched out...

Dismayed2012 posted 12/11/2019 15:31 PM

Your number one job right to is to inform the other man's wife immediately. Don't tell anyone what you're going to do. The OBS needs to know what her husband is involved in. It will also stop the affair in its tracks with two of you watching them.

Your number two job is to realize that if they've been alone then they've had sex. The OBS should be able to help you find more truth. Don't be floored if you find that your WW is lying to you about the extent of her involvement with the OM. Cheaters lie and then they lie some more. It's normal behavior so expect that you don't know the whole story.

Don't use the holidays as an excuse to put off resolving the mess your WW has created. This is all on her and has nothing to do with you. Any fallout during the holidays is her doing, not yours. And don't be afraid to cancel you travel with her. You have options. You can choose to enforce consequences now rather than biting your tongue until January.

Take care of yourself and remember that you have value. Treat yourself like you would your best friend. You're worth it.

GoldenR posted 12/11/2019 15:31 PM

This is a full blown physical affair. Don't believe her bullshit about holding hands.

Is the OM married? If so, tell his wife right fucking now.

Report their affair to the company HR. Yes she might she get fired. That's a consequence of her selfish choices. And it may be the only way to save your marriage, if that's what you want.

Marz posted 12/11/2019 15:39 PM

The one thing all cheaters have in common. They lie a lot.

Until you wake up to reality you'll remain stuck where you are

PassThis posted 12/11/2019 15:44 PM

She apologized deeply for it and said she would cut off any more romantic entanglement. Over the next month she texted him over a thousand times,

Were the thousand texts before or after the disclosure of the affair to you and the apology?

I am assuming the texts were before, but that is not clear. I assume the "next month" is the month after the business trip.

MickeyBill2016 posted 12/11/2019 15:45 PM

Does she know that you know that he asked her to spend the night? The time she lied about who she was with?
"Holding back" will only be temporary.

Keep trying to get more info but I am afraid that you are in for a rough ride. No need for too much couples counseling at this point IMO

What are your lines that if she crossed are deal breakers? Holding hands, thousands of messages and staying out late with him are just the beginning.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 3:47 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

This0is0Fine posted 12/11/2019 15:54 PM

The thousands of texts were following the admission. The "cut off" was not all contact, it was further romantic gestures. Thousands of texts is too much obviously. What is my line, well I guess I'm kind of finding it as we speak.

Trdd posted 12/11/2019 15:59 PM

Look in the library on this site and read about the 180. It is a process to get out of infidelity, which you are in neck deep right now.

The facts you shared with us do not add up. She is lying to you about the extent of the affair... that is almost certain at this point. You need to act now, not later. No contact at all with the POSOM is just the start. You need to read all her texts before she can delete them. Restore them if they were deleted. Check her phone location data too. If she resists any of that you know she is guilty of more than she is saying. Hell, we know that already but it will be more proof.

All of this is part of confronting her behavior. You have to blow this up to... hopefully... get her head out of the fantasy she has been living. Hold her accountable. Dont accept BS... trust your gut when she is spewing it.

More advice is coming soon from the SI experts. But look at the 180 ASAP in the library section. And take care of yourself. This is going to get worse before it gets better. First step, get out of infidelity!

Cooley2here posted 12/11/2019 16:05 PM

Right now the two of them are high as kites on this new romance. You need to be very clear about that. Office romances result in divorces many times. The person you work with all day gets the best of your energy and attention. This is already an affair. It is probably a PA but even if they haven’t had sex yet they are definitely emotionally involved. Confront her, then him. Do some detective work to find his wife. Don’t delay. I have two relatives who left their spouses for work OW/OM and married them.

ramius posted 12/11/2019 16:10 PM

You can’t make a good decision without all the facts.

Demand....texts. If she deleted them then use software to recover if possible.

Demand a polygraph. If she has told you the truth she should have no problem with it. What better way to put your fears to rest? If she balkes, and refuses. Then you know there is much more going on.

But remember, you are the prize. She should be crawling across broken glass to keep you from dumping her.

PassThis posted 12/11/2019 16:18 PM

The thousands of texts were following the admission. The "cut off" was not all contact, it was further romantic gestures.

Ouch! I guess she owes you another thousand or so apologies.

Soon the real "experts" in this forum will respond to your situation. Please follow their advice. They will tell you that you must summon all your strength to to handle this situation decisively. You must make her clearly understand that her actions are totally unacceptable and that your marriage is now effectively over. You may be able to create a new marriage going forward, but her destruction of trust and fidelity has killed the marriage. Please read the thread by BeyondRage. He will provide an idea of how to deal with your situation from a position of strength. Best of luck to you.

[This message edited by PassThis at 4:22 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

annb posted 12/11/2019 17:05 PM

Hi, welcome to SI.

To be blunt, cheaters lie. They lie some more. They deny. They manipulate. ALL of them.

Ask your wife if she is willing to take a polygraph. If she and OM are in close contact every day, more than likely this is a physical affair.

Too many of us here, including myself, were told that they just held hands, just kissed, just touched outside the clothing.....only to find out later there was physical cheating.

Huge red flags here...first of all, your wife should NOT have gone to that holiday party. She cheated with a co-worker, all socialization on the job is history.

Find a better way to in form the OM wife. The best way to end an affair is to expose it.

She should be NC (no contact) with him. Non negotiable.

My husband had an affair with a woman who worked for the same company. Her office was on the opposite coast. No way in hell would I ever allow him to visit her site again or have ANY communication with her, including professional. My husband found another job knowing he would never ever be as effective as he was prior to the affair.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. There is always more to the story, always.

BTW, your wife needs to give you access to everything, including her work emails and voicemails. My WH did without flinching. Transparency is a must. All other forms of communication must be an open book, and she needs to be held accountable for her whereabouts at all times.

Honestly, if she is truly remorseful, she will be doing everything in her power to show you she is trying to be a safe partner again. Doesn't sound that way.

Jameson1977 posted 12/11/2019 17:13 PM

Hi This0is0Fine,

Your story screams of deception. Take some time reading the posts her and you will soon see the depth of deception wayward spouses are capable of, I'm one of them.

Your best option is to be firm and decisive. I would bet you dont receive 10% of 1000 text messages in a month! There is smoke her and we all know the saying.

I would also assume the OM has blocked you from being able to contact his wife. We have see this many, many times in the past.

It this were me (and I do have nearly 5 years experience since my 1st dday), I would ask for her phone, run a recovery program to get deleted messages, find a way to contact his wife directly (phone call, registered letter, etc.) and DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE you are taking these steps. The OM will paint you as some jealous, crazy husband of a "friend" that is trying to destroy their life.

If all else fails, you could look into her taking a polygraph.

Sorry man, two adults dont text thousands of times, flirt with each other and be alone together and not have sex. Hell, my WW and I fought one night (before we were married) and she went out to a party and f'ed some random guy in a carport. I learned that little detail on dday 1. I couldn't believe my wife was capable of this kind of dangerous behavior.

Before I joined SI, I was totally unprepared. Just remember, no of us here have any axe to grind or alterior motives, other than trying to help other like-minded people deal with this terrible situation.

M1965 posted 12/11/2019 17:14 PM

Hi This0is0Fine,

I am sorry that you had cause to go looking for this forum, but I am glad that you found it.

Sadly, I think there is much more to this than your wife has told you. The fact that she confessed to physical contact without prompting shows that something happened that made her feel guilty, and yet she then contacted him over a thousand times.

Can you see how this is spiraling out of control, and why it is imperative that that you take strong action immediately?

I know these kinds of confrontations are not nice or easy, but if your wife is having physical contact with him, communicating with him obsessively, and lying about her whereabouts to be with him, it does not take Sherlock Holmes to see what is happening, and how much worse it will get if it is not stopped.

I would recommend getting her phone and using software called Fonelab (which you can download) to recover any deleted material. If you do not few confident to do that, there are computer shops and private investigators who will do the job for you. Yes, you would have to pay, but private investigators tend to know where things can be hidden, and can do a thorough job in recovering evidence.

If she refuses you access to her phone, that is a huge warning sign.

You need to contact her affair partner's wife immediately, and there are various ways of finding her contact details. Others here can suggest those, but there are lots of sources online for finding peoples' addresses.

You should ask your wife to provide a full written timeline of her affair, because if she was out with her affair partner every night of her business trip and 'holding hands' with him, then they had already established a relationship before the trip took place.

"Basis to R" means basis to reconcile, or recover from her affair.

You have the option of telling her to take a polygraph in relation to her actions. Many here have found them to be successful in bringing further information out of cheating spouses. Frequently a cheating spouse will maintain a cover story until they arrive at the test center, and then they give what is often called a 'parking lot confession', out of fear that the polygraph is bound to catch them anyway, so they look better confessing beforehand.

If she has Googlemaps or Find My Friends on her phone, you may be able to use that to track her movements, and see where she has been. If she has switched those off, it is another red flag, and you can tell her to turn them back on.

If she has her own car, you can put a VAR (voice activated recorder) under the driver's seat, to record any phone calls that she may be making from the car, when she thinks she is alone.

Similarly, you can put a VAR in a place in the house where she may tend to make calls from when you are not around. VARs are available quite cheaply from lots of outlets, and people here can advise on good ones and how best to use them if you are interested.

If you have an old phone that has tracking on it, you can put that in the car and see where she is going.

There is a good book that is often recommended here called "Not Just Friends" that you can download as a free pdf or buy as a book. It covers exactly the kinds of scenario you are describing, where a supposed 'friendship' develops into an affair, and how that happens. Get it as soon as you can, and have your wife read it and then report back to you what she thinks about it.

Seriously, do not delay, download it or order it now and have her read it the second it is delivered.

Ask her what her HR department's policy is on workplace affairs, and see how she responds.

To be quite frank with you, I personally would be inclined to go a bit 'shock and awe' and say something like, "Do you want a divorce, because that is where you are headed if you do not stop all contact with your married boyfriend". That may sound harsh, but you have to realize that your wife is already in a fantasy bubble about her new relationship, and those bubbles can only be burst with a dose of hard reality.

How do I confront her about this again in a healthy way?

This0is0Fine, I understand the whole 'healthy' thing, but the best way to confront is in a strong and decisive way that puts across across a very clear message that if your wife keeps this up, the marriage is over. Draw a very clear, unmissable line in the sand. And do it now.

This has already progressed way beyond 'healthy', and your wife is displaying clear wayward traits (physical contact, lying, secret communicating...) Is your wife worried about being 'healthy', or the health of your marriage? So if you take a 'soft' approach, she will just take advantage of it, lie, and continue doing what she is doing. You are not trying for a merit badge; you are trying to save your marriage.

Again, I am sorry if this stuff sounds harsh or unpalatable, but trust me, it is based on seeing what works, and your wife is on the brink of a full-on affair, if she is not already in one.

Do not delay; blow this crap off the rails. That is the only healthy way to deal with an affair. Being 'nice' just gets you hurt a lot more.

Oh, and be prepared for your wife to subject you to a process called 'trickle truth' (often referred to as TT here). That is where a cheater begins with a very small, minimised confession, and then builds on it bit by bit.

"We never had any physical contact" becomes, "No, wait, I think we did hold hands briefly, but only once, and not for long, and we both got scared and stopped it". Which becomes, "Well, we did hold hands another time, but not for long, and it did not mean anything". And then you get, "Well, we did kiss briefly one time, at the office party, but not for long, and we both got scared..." "Oh, and I think we may have kissed one other time..."

Your wife's heavily redacted account of her interactions with her affair partner smack of the beginnings of trickle truth.

Suggesting she gets another job is a fair idea, but I also think you should insist on going to all future work events and parties with her. Why were you not at the recent one? Did she tell you partners were not allowed to go? You need to check on that.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:42 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

BigMammaJamma posted 12/11/2019 17:43 PM

Hi There, This0is0fine.

I am so sorry you have had a reason to find us, but I am glad you did. I know you are hurting and reeling and trying to reconcile your reality. You want to believe that the past ten years haven't been a complete waste, so you are going to want to believe her so bad so things can go back to normal.

We have been all there. That is why I am going to be blunt: Your wife is feeding you bullshit. It simple does not pass the sniff test. Our bullshit detectors are finely tuned from our own W(ayward)S(pouses) putting us through the same thing.

These two adults have been carrying on a relationship. With your own personal experience, what do adults do when they are alone when they are carrying on a close relationship? Do they have means and opportunity?

If it looks like a duck and waddles like a duck and squawks like a duck, its a duck. It looks like she is trying to convince you that is a camel, and unfortunately, she will hold really fucking tight to her claim that it is a camel unless you can catch her in a lie.

Keep reading and posting.

steadychevy posted 12/11/2019 17:47 PM

My WW told me later after lying to me initially about who she was out with for drinks one evening. She said it was with her AP but it was just for a couple of Christmas drinks.

It was years later I found out he was the AP. I was really pissed she went for drinks alone with him while I was a couple hours away picking up our daughter to bring her home for Christmas from university. It was explained away. Her voluntarily admitting that it wasn't with the work group but just him assuaged her guilt about lying. Probably the last time she felt any guilt.

I also found out these years later it wasn't just drinks but much more. This was after DDay1. I could list a number of little stories my WW would tell that would make the appearance about being open and honest. They were manipulation with intent.

Point of the story - you can't trust her. The multitude of texts following her voluntary admission does not ring true. She was using this admission to look honest, IMO. I don't believe this was just an EA (there is no "just" to any cheating). The signs are there for much more. The lies and deception indicate it.

NotInMyLife posted 12/11/2019 19:31 PM

I'm sorry for your loss. You are grieving for your father and at the same time mourning your marriage. At this point, your wife's affair has escalated beyond emotional. She is not just lying about their involvement, but is physically involved to an unacceptable level. I'm not going to say they are fucking, but no considers staying the night based on hand-holding.

It's our tenth year anniversary on the 20th, and we are going on a trip starting next week.

If you think you can sit on this for another week, use the time to get a solid plan in place. Be aware though, that depending on what you said in your FB message to the Other Betrayed Spouse (aka OBS) your wife may have been warned by her AP. Also, it's not uncommon for cheaters to intercept messages and pretend to be the other spouse. Keep looking for a LinkedIn contact or some other activity to reach her.

If you have the time, get a no charge consult with a lawyer to get an accurate picture of what divorce would look like and use that in your discussion with her to make it clear that you are taking her betrayal seriously. Be aware that the days immediately after holidays are especially busy times for divorce lawyers.

A complete break with her affair partner is the first requirement of any reconciliation effort. In the short term, that means no contact that is not strictly required for work. In the intermediate term that means a transfer to a different department/team or a new employer.

Transparency with all of her devices is the second requirement. You can try to use recovery software yourself while you are on the trip or take her phone and drop it off somewhere they can can be recovered for you (your lawyer will be able to refer you to someone). Do not feel that you are invading her privacy here. At this point, you have to realize that you cannot believe anything she says because she will do and say anything to avoid responsibility for her cheating. Truth is the only way forward and you can't get it by listening to her.

In the meantime, order some books from Amazon to be delivered to you at your vacation hotel: "Not Just Friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from your Affair" are the most obvious choices.

Others will be along to offer more advice about how to approach next week. Some of what they say may seem harsh or extreme. If you read through the stories here though, you'll see that almost everyone ends up realizing that their cheating spouse is not the person they married and that any attempt to "save" the marriage has to start with that unfortunate truth.

Buffer posted 12/11/2019 20:00 PM

Brother this is just a shit sandwich

WW they lie so to minimise the hurt, yeh right. Bull shit!!

Regardless tell the OBS now, inform HR, get tested for STDs some are past just in a kiss.
Assume that she is in a A until proven otherwise. She will blame everything in her life except herself.
Shine a bright light on her A now. Keep a var when talking to her, hide one under her seat in her car as well.
Use a text recovery program to recover all deleted texts, emails and messages, before confrontation.
Don’t make any long term relationship decisions for a few months as your emotions will be all over the place.
Exercise, eat healthy, drink shit loads of water no booze or drugs.
Seek IC first look after yourself.
If they were alone, they were bumping ugglies!

Cheaters lie.

Buffer