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Wife of almost ten years is emotionally cheating on me

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ShutterHappy posted 12/29/2019 16:21 PM

If you look at it from the risk assessment perspective, and assuming that 25% of adults cheat (I donít know if itís true), then one would want to walk the R path if one believes that the Wayward has less than 25% chances of doing it again.

We know the chances are never 0, but itís never 0 with a new spouse anyways.

If your WW still has feelings for the OM, Iíd venture the odds of happening again is higher than 25%

Thumos posted 12/30/2019 09:26 AM

Best of luck to you in the New Year.

This0is0Fine posted 12/31/2019 10:26 AM

Went to the first MC meeting and the therapist seemed good (gave good answers to questions in the healing library for picking a therapist). She doesn't minimize the EA, rug sweep, or shift blame at all. She had an insight about the question about what to do if one partner is more committed than the other which is the less committed/ambivalent partner has the power (hence why the 180 works).

PassThis posted 12/31/2019 11:16 AM

It is good to hear that you and wife are getting good input from your counseling.

This link may also help provide some insight:

PassThis posted 12/31/2019 11:16 AM

Duplicate deleted.

[This message edited by PassThis at 11:17 AM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

This0is0Fine posted 1/2/2020 12:53 PM

She is now refusing to leave the job. Says the affair is over but she doesn't want to lose her "self" in the relationship, blah blah blah. Ok, calling a lawyer.

PassThis posted 1/2/2020 13:16 PM

Sorry This0is0Fine. It seemed that she was starting out in the right direction. Where did this come from? Has she been talking with anyone who might not be a "friend of the marriage?"

Go back to M1965's last post. He gives great advice on steps to demonstrate clearly your intent to get out of infidelity.

Be firm and calm. Have divorce papers served if she does not immediately take back her unhelpful thoughts and actions.

If you get passed this bump in the road, think about scheduling the polygraph asap to eliminate the uncertainty of knowledge about her affair and to keep from wasting time in limbo if she took the affair passed the deal-breaker line.

Strength to you.

This0is0Fine posted 1/2/2020 13:38 PM

Thanks, PassThis. I have already taken those steps. I don't know how her mind was changed on this. She has been reporting and showing me the business contact that was still necessary with him. I think she thinks there was maybe room for negotiation because I was willing, based on the book Not Just Friends, to allow some continuing level of work contact while looking for a new job, and she is just trying to bargain. I told her she is choosing a job of one year, that honestly she has other reasons to leave over our marriage and that it should be an easy choice.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 1:39 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

Stevesn posted 1/2/2020 13:50 PM

Hi, I canít tell if you are paying attention to what people are posting anymore, but Iím going to repost what I wrote on the last page and then give some additional thoughts below.

What we are saying (including some recent really good posts above) is that if sheís pining away for the AP, that youíll never be able to fully heal. If she is, itís better to heal on your own, than heal with someone not fully committed to you as her only true love.

Many times Iíve written sample words for BSís that find themselves in similar limbo. If I get a chance later I will.

But the gist of it is to communicate that if she still sees him as a Good Guy, or as a potential lover, or as even a close friend, then she can go live her life pursuing whatever affection he will give her, as you pursue your own healing and happiness on your own.

You deserve far more than half assed attempts at rebuilding from a woman whose heart is elsewhere. You will unlikely be satisfied unless she can show you she desires you and only you as a lover, a partner, a friend and as her physical desire.

Thatís what we are trying to say.

Iíve said this here before, that R only truly STARTS when the WS has come close to COMPLETING the work to change into a safe partner.... NOT when they START that work.

I hope that is understandable.

So the first and only step that matters right now is that she finds a way to complete NC of the other man. And that includes at work. Which means that includes a new job.

But hereís the beauty of it, until she goes NC, until she realizes that the AP wasnít a ďgood guyĒ and can prove to you that she feels that way, you dont have to do any work as a couple anymore. You only need to work on your own path to happiness.

That means, call the lawyer, get yourself into IC, meet with friends and family, post here in SI, and do t engage with your WW.

You can easily lay out what it means to be your partner. She has to be someone that is not pining for some other guy, and she has to be complete NC with the AP she had an affair with.

So Iíd tell her:
ďuntil you have ensured that POSOM is completely out of our lives, including you no longer caring about him or seeing him as a ďgood guyĒ or your Knight in Shining Armour, and you are in a new job at a new place where you never have to see or interact with him again, and no longer have him in your heart, we have nothing more to discuss.

I will not be in a 3-way relationship. If you want me you will take steps to make me completely safe in this relationship. If you canít do that, then we no longer need to be in a relationship.

So until I see and hear that from you, and not just that you PLAN to take those steps, but that you have actually taken them, then I will take that as a sign that I am not the man that you want in your life as your one and only. It breaks my heart, but itís as simple as that, and now I will begin the healing process on my own, without youĒ.

Then actually get to a lawyer and file.

My friend, this is the only way for her to show you that she truly has remorse from what she has done. Anything short if it will leave you wondering if it was really her that did the work, or you. She canít just wave a magic wand and fix what she broke. It takes elbow grease. Hard work. Thatís how she shows you your the one for her and no one else. So donít give her ďa passĒ and live a ďless thanĒ type of life.

Sheís either all in or sheís out. Keep it as simple as that.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:53 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

Thumos posted 1/2/2020 13:51 PM

She is now refusing to leave the job. Says the affair is over but she doesn't want to lose her "self" in the relationship, blah blah blah. Ok, calling a lawyer.

Yeah this is bullshit. She doesnít want to leave the job because she is in limerence for her AP.

Sounds like you are in the right path. She should be bending over backwards to do whatever it takes to save the marriage, and leaving a job where her AP still works is always considered step #1. Youíve already been reasonable. Donít screw around with this anymore.

As another poster has said in the past the WW must take proactive steps to destroy horcruxes of the affair and remove herself from the physical settings where the affair happened.

That can often mean moving towns but almost certainly moving jobs.

PS this is why we recommended the other steps like an STD test, written timeline, polygraph. Adulterers lie.

Thumos posted 1/2/2020 13:57 PM

And I realize that you had posted your MC ďgets itĒ and isnít encouraging rugsweeping, but for the love of Mike, stop wasting your time and money with MC now.

Your situation is one reason why there is near universal consensus to recommend against it.

Youíre doing MC with an adulterer who has her head up her ass, so even if the counselor has the best of intentions he/she is working with one half of the equation who isnít an honest broker. Thatís destined to fail.

Also I would recommend again that you read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair. You will see all the things your WW is NOT DOING ó and youíll see why youíre dealing with an unremorseful WW.

ShutterHappy posted 1/2/2020 15:35 PM

You have your conditions and if they are not met, itís perfectly fine to go the D way.

Your ultimate goal is to either have a safe spouse who will everything you require to rebuilt trust or no spouse.

if you tell your spouse that her keeping her job is not acceptable and that you will D her, make sure that you mean it.

ramius posted 1/2/2020 16:00 PM

I will just say this again....

But remember, you are the prize. She should be crawling across broken glass to keep you from dumping her.

So since she isnít.....

[This message edited by ramius at 4:26 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

M1965 posted 1/2/2020 16:49 PM

She is now refusing to leave the job. Says the affair is over but she doesn't want to lose her "self" in the relationship, blah blah blah.

This is such a blatant lie to justify remaining in contact with her affair partner that it is ridiculous.

Is your wife really saying that her 'self' depends on that job, and only that job? That in another job, she will no longer be a human being?

I mentioned this a couple of times in this thread, and it was never responded to, but what is her employer's policy on workplace affairs? You need to know that, and it will be a good dose of reality to fire a shot across your wife's lying bows to raise the issue.

Also, notify her affair partner's wife that your wife is determined to remain close to him, and let your wife know that you have done this. Hopefully that will motivate his wife to interfere with any further work trips that he and your wife may have scheduled.

From a practical perspective, if you are planning divorce, it may be better for your wife to keep the job that defines her as a human being an a way that no other job can do. So if her company fires people for having workplace affairs on company time, you may not want to inform her manager and her HR manager. However, throwing the possibility into the mix is not going to hurt if your wife is now coming out with nonsense about the job defining who she is as a person.

I am sorry that she is taking this stance over her job. It seems like she is still living in the fantasy bubble that affairs inhabit.

It is up to you whether you want to fire a few reality missiles at it to burst it (which will happen when your wife understands what she is going to lose for the sake of a deluded fantasy), or you feel like you have had enough, and she is welcome to charge down the blind alley she has created, and you will not be there to pick her up when she hits the brick wall that lies at the end of it.

[This message edited by M1965 at 4:50 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

Thumos posted 1/2/2020 17:03 PM

That in another job, she will no longer be a human being?

This made me laugh out loud. Hilarious and spot on. I swear, the bullshit cheaters spew out of their mouths constantly never ceases to amaze me.

M1965 posted 1/2/2020 19:20 PM

This made me laugh out loud. Hilarious and spot on. I swear, the bullshit cheaters spew out of their mouths constantly never ceases to amaze me.

The weird thing about it is how similar the stuff they say is. The same few themes, over and over again, in thread after thread.

[This message edited by M1965 at 10:54 AM, January 3rd (Friday)]

ShutterHappy posted 1/2/2020 19:41 PM

... or she will storm out of her house to go to her friend, and come back a few hours later and agreeing to leave her job.

What I find peculiar in this story is that his WW appears to have a decent friend.

RocketRaccoon posted 1/2/2020 20:22 PM

She is now refusing to leave the job. Says the affair is over but she doesn't want to lose her "self" in the relationship, blah blah blah.

This is typical of a weak willed WS. As your WW has almost daily contact with her AP, she cannot 'let go' as there is not true NC.

It is like an alcoholic living above a bar. Unless the alcoholic moves, or has iron-will, they have a very high likelihood of relapsing.

In your case, her AP is the drug she craves, and is being dangled in front of her. Some WS can do it, but most cannot.

Be it a WH or WW, it is best that they leave the job if their AP is a co-worker, for a better chance of R (if that is what the BS want).

Ok, calling a lawyer.

Good. It's about time.

Thumos posted 1/2/2020 20:32 PM

What I find peculiar in this story is that his WW appears to have a decent friend.

yeah this surprises me too, since we all know how adultererous women usually are enabled by bad friends telling them "you go, girl" and encouraging them to go out and live their best "Eat Pray Love" fantasy.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:32 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

PassThis posted 1/3/2020 09:28 AM

she doesn't want to lose her "self"

How does she describe her "self"?

I am sure that she does not want to have the attributes of unfaithful, liar, cheater, adulterer, betrayer, manipulator, etc. associated with her "self." You have told her that continued contact to OM would be very risky to your marriage. You have not asked her to change her "self." Actually, you are in love with her and her "self." In fact, she should cooperate with you to repair the damages to her "self", and you, caused by her bad decisions.

You are not forcing her to change jobs. If that is what she does, it is because she loves you enough to protect the marriage. If she does not, then she is damaging her "self".

Being committed to a marriage does not cause any loss of "self". The marriage enhances one's "self" and allows that "self" to grow and blossom in an atmosphere of love, partnership, and support for that "self".

As previously noted by one poster, changing jobs is not changing a career, or one's "self".

I hope that she will understand this with help and support from your counselor and her friend both with whom it seems that your wife trusts and respects.

Stay calm, dignified, and strong. I hope she gets her head in the right place PDQ.

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