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WS/fWS Questions for BS's--Part 1?

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BraveSirRobin posted 12/15/2019 21:31 PM

Loukas, that's a really powerful story. I'm so glad you found SI at that pivotal moment and had an opportunity to share your gratitude in person with DS and MH.

And if it helps, Ceph, Loukas and I have rarely been on the same side of a debate (despite my fondness for Yukon Golds), but this thread has given me some important things to remember the next time we lock horns. You did build a little BS/WS bridge, for me at least, with the latest turn in this thread.

Cephastion posted 12/15/2019 21:39 PM

It most definitely does help, BraveSirRobin.

And if it helps, Ceph, Loukas and I have rarely been on the same side of a debate (despite my fondness for Yukon Golds), but this thread has given me some important things to remember the next time we lock horns. You did build a little BS/WS bridge, for me at least, with the latest turn in this thread.

And in case you couldn't already tell... what you shared with me built one for me with you as well.

EllieKMAS posted 12/15/2019 22:04 PM

Ceph I'm so very sorry you are hurting and things are falling apart for you right now. I don't have much constructive help to offer, but just to say you DO have strangers on the internet that give a shit, even if that support doesn't read exactly like you want it to. So many people have commented on here offering you support and trying to understand. Your later comments in this thread have cleared things up a little for me I think.

Let me know if I am totally off base here but I think you are really hurting. I think you are very scared. I think you are frightfully angry. I think you are so sad. All of those emotions are hard and hard to deal with in the best of times, and this patently is NOT the best of times for you. But that being said - you do have a right to feel all those things given what you have been through. You wouldn't be human if you didn't feel all that.

Others have addressed this - YES you absolutely have a right to request certain treatment from others. And you have a right (and I would say an obligation to yourself) to walk away if they don't treat you with respect. I know for me that is a really hard lesson that I will most likely be learning for the rest of my life - it is a peril for a giving person like myself that I have to guard against, and I'm ok with that. But as hard and unjust as it feels, I will only have disappointment if I expect that someone will act/react in the exact way that I want them to. Everyone has their crosses to bear, and wherever someone is at will influence how they are. I don't always react the best or live up to expectations either. That's a human thing.

I was not here when DS was around, so I can't attest to how SI was during her tenure. Since I came here in Nov 2018, I have definitely run across some people that I disagree with or don't like. But my overall take? SI has been so supportive and an absolute life-saver and sanity-saver for me. I have learned a lot about the BS side of things (sometimes delivered via 2x4), and have also learned a lot about the WS side. There are any number of both that I very much appreciate.

You keep bringing up "sides". TBH, I think some segregation is a necessity for new SIers. This is a raw heated subject and new people often times are just not ready to look at other POVs. I totally get that from the BS side, because if a WS had started questioning me in my first 6 months or so here, that would NOT have sat well with me at all. I have to imagine it is also difficult for a new WS to come here and start the work. Which is why stop signs are a thing in Waywards. For a WS to 'get it' they have to admit to a lot of things, most of them very unflattering. If a WS is willing to do that, then I have no issue with them asking for help only from other WSs. Is that "sides"? Sure. But I can read those stop sign posts - and I learn from them even if I'm not allowed to comment. Just MHO, but I think there are BSs on here that will never see eye to eye with a WS and that is OK. I can't expect anyone else to have my same thoughts, because my thoughts are dictated by my history. Some WS's are never gonna get it either - mine was one of those. I doubt he will ever do anything like introspection into why he is so fucked up. And whether he does or not, I will not let that interfere with MY healing.

I know you are in a tough spot right now and it looks hopeless. I don't know what help to offer you for that except to say that you have a lot of people here that hear you, BS & WS alike. Please take care of yourself.

JBWD posted 12/15/2019 22:18 PM

I realize that many on here seem to echo along with my wife. To say that I have no right to any answers for anything. That I have no right to any kind of help getting closure or better understanding or sanity or help or support or healing on any of my own terms other than what I can provide all by myself to myself in a soulless vacuum of solitary savior-ship. That's what I think some are suggesting at least.

I truly donít think thatís what the concept is- Cocoís statement on ďrightsĒ is where I think most of us are. I see rights similarly to what she described- Freedom of action and freedom from malicious action. On a legal basis.

What I believe youíre actually looking for is an obligation, one that I believe exists and that youíre right to want. For your wife to own the significant harm sheís done you and your family. If there were vows at your wedding then you are legitimately owed that. Iím not a Christian but I still believe this.

I hope she comes around and starts to see what she has done- But in the meantime focusing on her and what she has done continues to do you great harm. I canít imagine your pain but I know that terror and shame of worrying about providing for your family.

I approach my situation somewhat similarly to yours if it helps: My BW continues to struggle just over a year past DD and we are headed for divorce but I hope for positive change. What I do in the meantime is work on muse and better understand my character flaws and how I will mitigate IF R happens post D. The time I spend in the meantime is not wasted because Iím simply not ready to quit and want to provide as best I can for BW.

Wishing for continued strength and small joys when you can find them- Weíre all here for you, Brother.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 12/16/2019 05:18 AM

Loukas, I know that isnít an easy story to tell. Thank you. I am so glad that you found this path.


crazyinlove1995 posted 12/16/2019 07:07 AM

Damn Loukas..Bro hugs.Tough to tell I'm sure thanks for sharing.Hugs to everyone!

hikingout posted 12/16/2019 08:43 AM

If I may, Ceph - I just want to point out, when you started this thread it seemed like a straight forward request that people were trying to discuss the merits of. But, underneath the request was a big well of pain that was difficult to understand that's where the post was coming from.

Once you opened up about your personal struggles, it seems you got a lot of compassionate people offering both empathy and some survival tactics that have helped them. I just want to encourage you in the future to maybe open with what is going on with you. it personally took me some back and forth to understand what I was even supposed to be empathetic with you about, and it caused that weird talking past each other. I was answering about the site, my experiences on the site, but you were seeking something personal and that wasn't coming across.

I think it might be because you have probably been punished for being vulnerable in your own life and you relive that trauma sometimes here. There are a lot of deeply caring people on this site that can be counted on to understand. It's okay to come from a place of "I need help".

I am concerned for you as the holidays approach. Holidays can be alienating even for people in better situations. What are your plans for it? (Strategically speaking)

Cephastion posted 12/16/2019 09:49 AM

My "plans" for the holidays are continually being shot all to hell in the back of the head by my wife and others.

So right now I guess my "plan for the holidays" is just to try and watch my back and get some control of my perimeter.

Pretty damn Spartan at this point, I'm sorry to say.

But betrayal and abandonment are my wife's "plan" so far apparently, and so I guess that trying to do damage control and having to continually be bracing for impact has to be mine as well.

And btw, I didn't know what I was after exactly when I started this thread. I think that that's partly why it's a question within a question about asking questions and answers of one another.

I didn't know that my wife was going to continue being a disrespectful asshole of a bitch when I started this thread.

I foolishly thought that "Lucy" was gonna actually hold the damn football still for me to kick it, instead of lying to me over and over and over again just to make a mockery out of me and my trust again underneath her bullying thumb and power to incessantly betray mine and my children's trust the way she does.

ETA this GIF:

I'm a slow learner, when it comes to defending my own heart and trust and soul and world, as always.

Blockhead that I am.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 10:15 AM, December 16th (Monday)]

hikingout posted 12/16/2019 10:05 AM

If it makes you feel better, there are lots of times I posted not realizing I needed something else, or something else was bothering me. Doesn't matter how you get there, sometimes you just need help getting there.

I am very sorry to hear that Christmas is looking bleak this year, Ceph. I will pray some peace will find you.

Maia posted 12/16/2019 12:47 PM

If I might recommend a book that would help you.

Wild at Heart by John Eldredge. Or Waking the Dead, same author.

those books healed me. I hope they touch you.

Loukas posted 12/16/2019 20:43 PM

Just wanted to say thanks for the hugs, folks. I'm definitely nowhere near that place anymore and haven't been that close to it since that night. Although the story isn't the easiest to tell, I believe He has a purpose with it, so I'll share it as many times as is needed.

How are you doing today, Ceph?

Maia posted 12/16/2019 21:50 PM

checking on you Ceph.

I hear you Loukas. and you get even more hugs for that response!! :-P

[This message edited by Maia at 9:57 PM, December 16th (Monday)]

Cephastion posted 12/17/2019 05:22 AM

I'm up and down, really. I have up's in the mornings sometimes when I start the day trying to take back the ground of my soul and mind and life that I've given over to being bullied and treated like shit and left to die of neglect...

And then the darkness and loneliness of December/holiday winter sets in...

And then it's a whole 'nother ballgame...

Kinda like those stories about being at sea back when they were incredibly, inextricably tied to the wind and weather for their feelings of prosperity and safety and well-being and survival or else deep distress and anguish of soul with loss and horrific tragedies and traumas involved.

I think I have PTSD and/or C-PTSD as well, so it's a really fun ride, let me tell ya.

But as for right now and the previous three hours that I've been awake, I'm doing pretty well I guess.

Pippin posted 12/17/2019 14:19 PM

Cephastion, I was not worried that people would be ugly to me. I read that you were grieving your friends, and asked what was so wonderful about him (sincerely) because writing can help with grief. You have so much loss to grieve in addition to the loss of your friends. It might be good to work through some of that grief when you are feeling steady rather than letting it bubble up and explode, either by writing about them or the many other ways that people grieve.

Here's something from the Jewish kaddish, the prayer for the dead. It doesn't have Maia's message of everlasting life, which I believe, but it is beautiful for this life and might help you. It has a message for betrayal too, I think.

When cherished ties are broken, and the chain of love is shattered, only trust and the strength of faith can lighten the heaviness of the heart. At times, the pain of separation seems more than we can bear, but if we dwell too long on our loss, we embitter our hearts and harm ourselves and those about us.

The Psalmist said that in his affliction, he learned the law of God. And in truth, grief is a great teacher, when it sends us back to serve and bless the living. We learn how to counsel and comfort those who, like ourselves, are bowed with sorrow. We learn when to keep silent in their presence, and when a word will assure them of our love and concern.

Thus, even when they are gone, the departed are with us, moving us to live as, in their higher moments, they themselves wished to live. We remember them now; they live in our hearts; they are an abiding blessing.

If you ever want to write about your friends, I will read it. Stories of people's compassion and fellowship are wonderful.

You might hold a record for the thread in General with the most WW responding. So you sort of got what you asked for, didn't you? It was a messy and wandered quite a bit, but you got there. Do you think next time you need help, in real life or here, you have better ideas of how to find it?

Maia posted 12/18/2019 14:35 PM

The shield of faith is a thing. You gotta hold it up and guard your heart. When lies occur to you, replace them with the truth. Keep your eyes fixed on the Truth.

Ransomed Heart has an app now that helps me do that. its free. it's called The Pause. you can download it and use it.

praying for joy for you this season.

Loukas posted 12/18/2019 19:23 PM

Hey Ceph, do you want to tell me a little more about a fair trial? Maybe how you could achieve one?

Cephastion posted 12/27/2019 02:02 AM

Hey Ceph, do you want to tell me a little more about a fair trial? Maybe how you could achieve one?--Loukas

Loukas, I'm working on responding to your question on here but I'm so maxed out with how this Christmas and Thanksgiving have been this year that I just can barely keep my head above water...

Same for Maia and Pippin...

Although, Maia, I do hope that your own difficult situation this Holiday season has gotten better for you.

And as for this:

Do you think next time you need help, in real life or here, you have better ideas of how to find it? -- Pippin

I have to admit that I learned a hell of a lot about myself and others in this thread.... and also how to look at myself and what I want or need more directly and perhaps also more guardedly (or wisely) at the same time than I was doing at first, I think.

I know that for one thing, Loukas, I want some non-cultish perspectives being shared with my wife and kids regarding how this situation we're all in actually looks to someone on the outside looking in.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 2:09 AM, December 27th (Friday)]

Loukas posted 12/29/2019 03:22 AM

No rush on my end, Ceph. Just know Iím checking in on the thread if you feel the need to share.

Cephastion posted 12/30/2019 18:01 PM

I just started another thread in the Reconciliation forum asking my WW to chime in and for others to do so as well with her and myself about our situation and thought processes and "fog" or lack thereof which she primarily asserts.

I want her and myself and the kids situation to have a more objective examination than just a "he said/she said" stalemate that continues downward into the nosedive of oblivion that it's currently barreling towards.

You guys helped me to see what I was actually wanting or needing but didn't at first fully realize that that's what I was wanting & needing.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 6:05 PM, December 30th (Monday)]

Zugzwang posted 12/30/2019 18:10 PM

I would think it isn't a thing at all because if the person is a WS that is former or has gotten and owned it they have no questions to ask strangers. They should be in point- just asking their BS. Just a thought. The WS at the time frame you seem to be looking for should have communication skills that don't need a third party's input. Though I can only speak for myself. If I have questions, I better damn well be asking my wife's input otherwise what the Hell have I learned.

BTW, my daughter loves the "New Coke" that was remarketed for Stranger Things.

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