"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

IHatePickingName posted 12/30/2019 18:18 PM

Zugzwang the thread has moved very far from the intro post. I only realized it myself when i reopened it today, after seeing the one in reconciliation.

Cephastion is she reading your other post or are you only hoping to convince her to read it? I so sorry you are going through all this. Have you had any success in addressing any of the financial mess she created, to get through the immediate future? How are your younger two doing?

Zugzwang posted 12/30/2019 18:33 PM

I know. I just wanted to answer what it started with to begin with. I just thought it was an important point to make out. Not to mention that many "reformed" or "former" WS are probably not even here very often or they are busy trying to get new WS to see some things. If a BS wants to see what this "reformed" looks like, all they have to do is read the WS forum and see it. There are plenty of WS that try desperately to help new WS see truths about their infidelity and affairs in general.

Though I did want to respond to this

There are many BS’s who respond to threads in Wayward and are very helpful with their advice and 2x4’s. But there are also BS’s who project their pain on to the WS’s that post here. It can be intimidating.

I know that personally I try to separate a BS’s posts when they rant and call us every name in the book from the very same BS who is responding to me, but it does get to me sometimes.

Personally, I don't see it as any BS ever taking their pound of flesh on some surrogate WS. I just see that what they are expressing is the reality of the pain a BS goes through. They simply are putting to words what our own BS felt. I have never seen it as an individual out for some other individual. It is just a (general BS perspective). Then, it isn't so personal anymore because that is exactly how or what our own BS felt at some point. IDK if I am making any sense. So, I guess I just never see these BS attacks that many point out. All I see is a general BS being truthful and honest, representing who my own BS was at some point.

Zugzwang posted 12/30/2019 18:55 PM

The first step to that is to stop hanging your well-being on what other people do. You cannot control other people. You can only control yourself and your actions. If someone is toxic, cut them out. Don't continue to subject yourself to their toxicity, thereby allowing them to abuse you.

YES. It is the same advice we WS give to WS. To be enough for yourself. I am sorry your wife isn't doing what needs to be done. The whole, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. There certainly are plenty of more empathetic WS to support her if she was willing to open up to them.

Generally I rarely post on BS threads. Usually it is to help them see if their WS is still gaslighting them or to help a BS see that they are better than the AP. Years ago I was accused of being too BS empathetic and they were right. I was. My driving force then was to spare BS and further pain by helping the WS to get out of the fog and and get their shit together. Now I am more get WS healthy and honest with themselves because I know we can change and live with joy. I know as a human they deserve that opportunity. So, I have more WS healing themselves because everything is only going to be as strong as the weakest link.

When I first started reading it seems that you want to see out of WS what you aren't getting from your wife and to see if it is even possible. I can only hope that one day your wife, motivates herself to change and heal. In the meantime, maybe you can find some support through church. I am not a religious man, yet I can't deny the general comforting support those groups gave to myself and my wife when we needed it most. I hope you are able to get away from her toxicity and build a new life with your children.

Zugzwang posted 12/30/2019 18:57 PM

Try reading a book my wife and I have used to find strength and healing. A Grace Disguised by Jerry Sittser. It can give a renewed perspective on loss, grieving, and healing.

Cephastion posted 12/30/2019 20:32 PM

Cephastion is she reading your other post or are you only hoping to convince her to read it? I so sorry you are going through all this. Have you had any success in addressing any of the financial mess she created, to get through the immediate future? How are your younger two doing?

She just confirmed to me that she read it this evening.

She thinks that she's within her rights it seems... and I guess that the defaming, abandoning boys and my oldest daughter are as well...kinda hard to pin her down on that because she'll say that she doesn't approve and yet she has no problem supporting them and hating on me instead for objecting to their shit and absolute disrespect.

The financial mess is still a nightmare but we're trying to slog our way thru it some at least.

We have food now and even though we didn't have any Christmas of any kind whatsoever, at least we might get thru this somehow without going without certain absolute minimum necessities...I think...maybe.

The younger two are really overwhelmed and feeling pretty shafted by all of this bullshit and abuse however.

To their GREAT CREDIT however, they are soldiering on like a BOSS! You just wouldn't believe how wonderfully and bravely they are trying to handle all of this awful nightmare.

I am trying to get them to process thru and freely vent and air out their feelings so they don't turn into mini little encore versions of their repressed/suppressive/denial-minded/emotional pain avoidant/never-let-em-see-you-sweat mother and grandmother (my MIL, that is).

[This message edited by Cephastion at 8:55 PM, December 30th (Monday)]

Cephastion posted 12/30/2019 20:55 PM

I would think it isn't a thing at all because if the person is a WS that is former or has gotten and owned it they have no questions to ask strangers. They should be in point- just asking their BS. Just a thought. The WS at the time frame you seem to be looking for should have communication skills that don't need a third party's input. Though I can only speak for myself. If I have questions, I better damn well be asking my wife's input otherwise what the Hell have I learned.--ZugZwang

Yes. This makes sense. But it also has additional value to me beyond the fact that it in itself stands as a well thought out and reasoned post and response...

+ I feel respected

+ My wife can read this and maybe learn something

+ this increases my hope and affirms or validates my "optimism" and belief that there really IS a Santa Claus (reformed wayward) according to what reformed might look and sound like by way of MY definition or terms of engagement...instead of reinforcing a negative categorization/stereotype that a "reformed wayward" is simply being an anonymous iconic fantasy person that doesn't actually exist in MY world of people that care enough to get involved or care enough to get scrappy and have an honest fight or respond to a fair, honest challenge or question

+ I feel like someone out there actually cares enough to think thru this and offer it in writing for me and my wife and the rest of the fallen world to read and consider...

+ which helps me not to feel so alone and on my own to try and face these issues honestly

+ sometimes when a person feels alone and unheard or discarded and altogether bled out, they just want to know that someone else out there is willing to "give at the office"... and restore their faith in humanity this Christmas and holiday season

+ I already liked Zug but now it's "personal" because he's helping ME and my babies (okay they're teenagers now, but still) and family

+ and if those points and Zug himself weren't already bodacious enough...Zug told ME to "go to church!"

Sometimes I really love this place

[This message edited by Cephastion at 9:07 PM, December 30th (Monday)]

IHatePickingName posted 12/31/2019 07:37 AM

Generally I rarely post on BS threads. Usually it is to help them see if their WS is still gaslighting them or to help a BS see that they are better than the AP. Years ago I was accused of being too BS empathetic and they were right. I was. My driving force then was to spare BS and further pain by helping the WS to get out of the fog and and get their shit together. Now I am more get WS healthy and honest with themselves because I know we can change and live with joy. I know as a human they deserve that opportunity. So, I have more WS healing themselves because everything is only going to be as strong as the weakest link.

Zugzwang i really appreciate this perspective on your posting. Thank you for sharing it. I agree with your approach and reason for changing, and i find it interesting to ponder the two perspectives.

IHatePickingName posted 12/31/2019 07:52 AM

Cephastion i glad she is reading and that you have immediate necessities like food covered for the moment. Hopefully it gives you time to find resources to help you fix the rest. I agree with the other posters who suggested she sounds mentally unwell. Is that a possibility? I dont know her or you.

Your two kids are doing a great job handling something they shoulldnt have to. I think having you as a safe space to fall apart is so helpful to them. I hope you can use SI to do the same. I have more family than you but no local support and i relied on my online communities in the past.

Zugzwang posted 12/31/2019 17:57 PM

IHPN My wife and I were talking about this more and she brought up something about my dynamics in posting changing depending on her own journey in healing. As we began to work together more and she realized the affair was not about her (I don't mean the blame game or anything), it is more the (don't take it personally thing) my focus changed. It wasn't about the BS healing. She had healed. She realized that she was not a victim, just an innocent bystander while I fucked up myself and went down spectacularly. This was my climax of my self destructive path years in the making. Yes, I was willing to sacrifice her to get ahead. Hurting her was not the main goal though. The more healed she became, the less I focused on BS being spared and the more focused I became on the WS getting to their own awakening because I knew that BS can heal and see that this had nothing to do with them and everything to do with our own destruction (even if they are caught in the crossfire). My wife just had to heal from trauma. To regain her strength and footing. I had to completely change. A major overhaul. I don't know if I am making any sense.

Another thing to take into account is making sure new WS aren't using BS as foster APs when they get here. It is great to show the empathy. If I had done that right away with BS, I guarantee that some of that would have been driven by my need to be a KISA. It wouldn't have been completely selfless. I think new WS need to be acutely aware of that type of surrogate relationships.

Zugzwang posted 12/31/2019 17:58 PM

Cephastion Teens. I don't envy you. You got it hard with just the word teen. My oldest will be 11 on Friday and I am completely gray already. I already can see the dynamics going on between my wife and my daughter. Your wife is probably afraid of losing her daughter. It is just tuff naturally to begin with. I know it hits my wife deep when they argue. She misses the relationship that was there in the past. They are so much alike and my wife fears the loss of being close. She wants a strong mother daughter bond. Something she never had with her own mother.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 6:03 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)]