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Dipping my toe in

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Hurtingnconfused posted 5/16/2020 08:38 AM

Been in R for five years. Thought we were doing well. Set boundaries and he pushes them. He has "found himself" and is excited about the process. Fine. Some previous girl he liked and asked out four times has been back in his life. He talked to her for four hours and I told him that made me uncomfortable. I did not feel safe. I told him, since he is working through some issues, fine, talk to her but no more than three hours as it takes time away from the family. Seemed like innocent conversation but we have been down that hole before. Very black and white, no 4 hour calls.
He is wanting to "make a difference" in life. He is thinking he is going to be a stand up comedian. Ok, whatever. He was going to tell her a story he thinks is funny and wanted her to critique it. So he is on the phone with her, she is in a silky bathrobe and some kind of slip thing under it. Plunging neckline. He is oblivious and telling his story. I tell him "good night" and I am going to bed. He says "kisses" and I just wave bye.
So he hangs up with her and asks "what the hell?" I point out the plunging neckline, the hair twirl, the fingers in and out of her neckline and it makes me uncomfortable. So we talk and I cry since that is how it started last time. He assures me and I head to bed.
2:30 in the morning he is not in bed, and I hear "She will just have to understand." Yah, on the phone with her since I went upstairs. He comforted her.... and the phone call went for 4.5 hours at least. Done just done.
I did talk to her and her husband. He was there for all the conversations and says nothing is happening, he trusts her. He did not see anything wrong with what she was wearing. She shared that she is not interested in my husband "that way" and was just helping him reminisce of when he was bullied in HS. I believe both of them...... however...... it is once again a boundary he not only crossed over but trampled on his way over. Not even minutes after I went upstairs he was consoling her even though her husband was right there. Numb. just numb. Am I done or just hurt? I dont know

Chrysalis123 posted 5/16/2020 09:03 AM

Why are you considering staying with him after all of this? Years of this?

Here is a good book to read. It's about men that are physically abusive, however the psychology behind that and a manipulative liar like you have are very similar. The book was a huge moment of understanding for what had happened to me.

Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft

PS- You may have been in R for 5 years, but he has not. He was conning you most of that time. So, very gently, you were in "the pick me dance" not R.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 9:05 AM, May 16th (Saturday)]

northeasternarea posted 5/16/2020 09:44 AM

What is the difference between 4 hours and 3 hours? What exactly does he bring to the table to make you put up with this nonsense?

[This message edited by northeasternarea at 9:45 AM, May 16th (Saturday)]

nekonamida posted 5/16/2020 10:33 AM

Hurting, read your profile. Go back and read your old threads if you can. This is exactly what he did before. He carried on an EA right in front of you and went PA when he could. This is another EA in the making. Doesn't matter that OW's H knows. Doesn't even matter of OW genuinely does not feel that way about him. He's the one ramping it up and spending emotional energy on a relationship outside of your marriage. He's the one dipping his toes right back into infidelity and he expects you to be okay with it.

180 him. Figure out what life would look like in D. See a lawyer. Get your ducks in a row.

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/17/2020 03:44 AM

It hurts to read all the advice knowing its true. Im nauseous and cant sleep. Started working on my house to get it ready to sell, my sister said my room at her house is ready. Is it possible that I grieved this marriage already or an I just in shock n denial?
On the plus side, took care of me. Worked on framing some art, bought a mirror to go with a piece of furniture that I love. Played in my flowers

[This message edited by Hurtingnconfused at 3:48 AM, May 17th (Sunday)]

Chrysalis123 posted 5/17/2020 06:29 AM

On the plus side, took care of me. Worked on framing some art, bought a mirror to go with a piece of furniture that I love. Played in my flowers

There you go!! What a great start for reclaiming your life.

You do not need to live like this anymore. He's somehow convinced you this way of life is normal and you feel guilty and ashamed for thinking differently than him and he has exploited this trait in you for years.

It's like your wonderful qualities of loyalty and dependability have spun wildly out of control. Your ability to accept horrible treatment for years on end is also sky high.

His loyalty and dependability are abnormally low. His ability tot treat others terribly while feeling entitled to do so is very high.

Can you see the dance? Can you see your role? Therapy will help you untangle this and learn a dance that is perfectly healthy for you.

I learned when I found out my good qualities were out of control, that it felt AWFUL to start behaving in an emotionally healthy way. In fact I used to think people with strong healthy boundaries were "mean". I needed a lot of support at first to learn a new way to be. In my case I used SI, books, an individual counselor and Alanon.

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/17/2020 07:42 AM

I control my own schedule at work so I have decided that I am going to work the opposite shifts as him. I am also slowly starting to remove things from the home, mostly to paint, however..... Things that I am no longer wanting but also if I am moving to Arizona with my family, I dont need. I'm sure the shock of seeing things change in the house and that I am not making any effort this time will be mind-blowing to him.
Not really taking baby steps, at this point full gallop ahead

nekonamida posted 5/17/2020 09:08 AM

Good for you, Hurt! You can do it!

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/17/2020 14:00 PM

So apparently I have an "attitude" that I need to get over. Texted him and asked him to call Home Depot and talk to them about a return. He texted me that he was not my bitch boi. I responded in voice messenger, that "not a problem, Ill handle it when I get home, thanks anyway" with absolutely no inflection in my voice. Just like I asked about the weather. Apparently that is not ok. I am sure he is looking to jump on anything right now cuz I'm "avoiding and ignoring him." No, just not engaging with the pouting and temper tantrums, going about my routine and enjoying things. I am sure that "laughing" is somewhere in the cycle of grief..... cuz right now that is just what I am doing as Im at work. Oh and the next voice mail, "Im fine after my tire blew, thanks for asking" Guess Im supposed to read his mind or stalk his facebook as he certainly didn't tell me. Again with the slightly hysterical laughter, good thing no one is working today, Im sure they would be slightly confused!

Tallgirl posted 5/17/2020 15:38 PM

Hi hurt. Big hugs.

Honey your husband is acting like a total jerk.

Do not permit it. Of course he can do anything he wants if he is single.

He needs to chose.

Maybe you just need to say that.

I have never had a FaceTime wearing sexy clothes with anyone. That is total bull.

[This message edited by Tallgirl at 3:38 PM, May 17th (Sunday)]

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/17/2020 23:59 PM

So hes told all the kids (his) that Im moving to Arizona and being snotty about it. Told him fine, if he wants me gone, help fix the house to sell. Hes back to not talking to me. My kids called n asked whats going on then offered to come clean, paint, drive me there, n live w them. Again, no tears today, cant say that I care. Am I numb? Will it hit later? Did I already make a decision n dealt w the emotional fall out already? This lack of caring is causing me more concern than the thought of divorce. Am I losing it?

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/18/2020 08:32 AM

Ok that escalated quickly. Hes blaming me and not acknowledging his part in it at all. Justifying it all, its just a phone call not the actual betrayal of I asked you not to do you picked a fight so you can do it anyway. Told me to go file, ok I will

J707 posted 5/18/2020 09:51 AM

Um, no, it's Not just a phone call. Tell her husband to put on a silky robe and listen to his jokes! Bet you it won't last 4 hours!

As far as your emotions. Sometimes you just know when you're done. Could be you've processed it already. Also, maybe it will hit you later, that's ok too. All stories are different with different timelines when we file for D. But in your writings, you are strong! He is still in the wayward mindset. He's blaming you. It was just a phone call. I agree, go file!

HeartFullOfHoles posted 5/18/2020 10:00 AM

Been there, I experienced the same blame shifting and history rewrite during my divorce. My ex would tell her stories to anyone who would listen, that I was a horrible person and we were getting divorced because of that, not because she would not own her affair. In the end she had twisted it to she didn't actually have an affair, but she knew I had. She would lie about anything and everything. Unfortunately she is very good at it.

You need to be strong and realize this is just the actions of a sick person who is not mentally able to deal with the consequences of their actions. They will tell lies to others and you have to be okay these people will view you based on this lie.

Also keep copies/records of everything. My ex would say something one day and then a week or two later it was "I never said that" I eventually forced all communication to be either text or email so I had physical copies.

There are two advantages to this. It allows you, if you are disciplined, to take some time to respond and not respond in anger. Yes, with texting it's not easy because it can be as dynamic as talking in person/on the phone, but you do have the option of reviewing what you typed before you hit send. Next is you have a record. Now because you know this is a record make sure you practice #1 because anything you type can be used against you as well.

We were in a meeting with the attorneys and she was going off on something and my response was well I have the email conversation right here and that's not what you said. Deer in the headlights look and then it was "Well that's not the real issue." Which was her classic pattern of attack with her lies and when you defended it with facts she would shift to something else. It was exhausting at the time, but the peace now is so worth it.

J707 posted 5/18/2020 11:49 AM

Also keep copies/records of everything. My ex would say something one day and then a week or two later it was "I never said that" I eventually forced all communication to be either text or email so I had physical copies.

Absolutely this^^^^^
I never had to pull my "in case shit happens" folder in court (we never saw a judge and my lawyer did it all) but atleast I had it. I got the:
~You don't listen, I never said that~
I never had to use it but atleast I had it. Text or email. And yes, watch what you say. The hardest part for me was biting my tongue. So come here and vent, don't feed into his crap.

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/19/2020 15:18 PM

Day ?, yah I dont know how many days its been. His DS is 18 and I have had him since he was 8. He is a carbon copy of his dad in all the positive traits and demonstrates a lot of the bad ones as well.

He came to me today telling me that his dad is "giving up" and that "you're having your daughter come here to help you move out." I reminded DS that my daughter's ticket was bought a lot longer than this fight was going on. He then asked if he could buy my house, that he could afford it in 10-15 years. I gave him a hug and told him that I could not wait that long and he had a lot of experiences to have before buying a house. He asked if his dad could buy it from me, I assured him that if WH could finance it, he could if it came down to that. Reminded him that his dad is not financially responsible so if his dad did manage to do it somehow he would need to have the kids live with him and help with the bills.

DS got this look on his face and said that if WH continues the way he is going, he is going to need a lot of physical help as his body will break down. DS said DD can not do it as she as Autism and makes her boyfriends do everything for her. I laughed and said that if WH continues down the road with the female he is currently chatting with, she has had 13 back surgeries and WH would have to step up financially and every other way. I told DS I was aware of what I was getting with his dad (I thought!) and had taken care of my last husband that was totally physically disabled.

DS then asked what I wanted from his dad. I told him I wanted WH to stop drinking every night and figure out why he rolls over and pee's on himself every time some female gives him attention. Not kidding! It seems like every time. DS acknowledged that his dad drank way too much "and wastes his time watching tv and sitting on the porch all day." out of the mouths of babe's. I also shared that WH picks a fight every time he wants to go do something so that he can justify that I drove him to it. Shared if he had a set, he would just flat out tell me he was doing it.

Feeling "shock-y" today. We have never gone this long without talking as he always gives in after two days. So Im thinking maybe he has grown a pair to stand up to me.... or he is back to his old tricks and some female is feeding him SH*T so he is getting his kibbles. I have not checked his phone in probably two years. Glanced at a paragraph two nights ago. The kibble giver was telling him that I was manipulating his emotions, that I was at fault, that he should not have to put up with nasty people like me. THEN she pm'ed me all nicey nice. yah no.

Decided not to do anything until I have time to think about it. My job is secure and I can work whatever hours I want to, the bills are being paid so think I will just practice "being divorced" and see how I do. My youngest DD stated she would love to share an apartment with me. Oldest DD said she and her husband would come up and help me clean/move as did the youngest DD. My sibling also said she would come. She is a retired chief master Sargent in the Navy so she is good at getting things done. If he does decide that he wants to buy me out of the house, it would be very quick, fast and easy.

Thinking my emotions are starting to come back. Very nauseous and I can't seem to get any work done. Want to go in a corner and cry. Did I over react over a phone call? yesssss???? Maybe????? Is he back to the same patterns? I see it, but maybe not? She is one state away so I guess that is a relief. If she was here I know I would be going up a wall. And maybe that is what I have to think..... if she was here, he would be all over it and.... just that "and"

Please help me with the crazies!

survrus posted 5/19/2020 15:34 PM

Hurting,

You wrote, I did talk to her and her husband. He was there for all the conversations and says nothing is happening, he trusts her. He did not see anything wrong with what she was wearing. She shared that she is not interested in my husband "that way"

So your WH is not just humiliating you but this OWs husband, is it that your WH can't get sexual release unless he is being cruel to someone, is he sadistic?

Love yourself enough to either put your foot down or end this marriage, 90% end this marriage.

Hurtingnconfused posted 5/19/2020 18:00 PM

Do you ever get smacked right between the eyes?? wow!

So I am talking to my best friend who knows both of us (an ordained minister) and he said, WH is just like a puppy that pees on the floor in a room with a closed door. He does not know better. Can you train him? Make him aware of expectations? I am not sure as WH is 45! How long am I going to want to keep rubbing his nose in "pee" and throwing him outside so he gets it? He is not aware and also he is self centered....

so the smack.

I'm talking to Doug and I say "The only good part about this is that she is in Idaho so I know he is not driving to her house right afterwards." I had to stop and say that to myself again. Had she been here, in Montana, he would have picked the fight and left to fill his own self gratification. If it's not her, it will be someone else down the road that gives him attention because he is all about deflection, validation (of his thoughts by others), denial, and attacking. Why am I thinking this is ok to stay in??? SMACK!!

So DS is graduating at the end of this month. DD (his) is moving out in August. I am thinking I will tell DS that he can start paying rent in June as the other kids had to pay rent when they were out of school, or he can share a room with his dad. I will move into DS's room and start working on the house. I want my equity out of it so I can get a nicer apartment in Arizona to start over. It has sunk in

StillLivin posted 5/20/2020 11:29 AM

He is gaslighting you. There is absolutely zero reason for a married man to be on the phone with another woman for even 1 hour. You're supposed to be the woman he confides and shares his feelings with. Even if "there is nothing going on", he is still inappropriately emotionally entangled. He is giving a part of himself that he is supposed to be giving to YOU. If ANY man did this to me, I would pack immediately. No confrontation, no crying in front of him, no explanations, and definitely no validation of why I was doing what I was doing was the right thing. Just....G.O.N.E!
Please don't let yourself be gaslit. This is wrong on so many levels that it would take too much wasted time and energy to explain why. Leave. Then, heal. Then, choose someone who wants to be on the phone with only you for 4.5 hours.

EllieKMAS posted 5/20/2020 12:48 PM

WH is just like a puppy that pees on the floor in a room with a closed door. He does not know better. Can you train him? Make him aware of expectations? I am not sure as WH is 45! How long am I going to want to keep rubbing his nose in "pee" and throwing him outside so he gets it? He is not aware and also he is self centered....
Ummmmmm... wtaf. Like... WHAT. the. actual. FUCK.

No, a grown ass man is not like a puppy. And you're his wife not his mommy, so yeah not your responsibility AT ALL to 'train' him.

Oh and all this about his phone call is total bullshit. Utter, complete, total, absolute BULLSHIT.

Sorry, this one just made me make the wtf face bigtime. Lawdy but cheaters can be so dumb.

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