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Burn the Witch!!!

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JanaGreen posted 8/10/2020 15:04 PM

Oftentimes, they just want to talk about the emotional aspects of being in that kind of limbo and have ZERO interest in getting out of that limbo. And from behind the keyboard, you KNOW they're spinning their wheels and that the answer HAS TO BE getting out of limbo. But they're just not ready yet. They have to see it for themselves.

Oh hi, yeah, 2010-2016 me feels personally attacked

I mean, I'm "laughing" now but being in limbo with an emotionally abusive cheating husband isn't really funny. Limbo is hell on earth but there were no words to make me see the light til I was ready to see it. God bless all the folks who responded to me anyway.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 3:06 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

Thumos posted 8/10/2020 15:04 PM

But BH's saying stuff to newbies like "He made her wetter than you do", or "he had bigger junk than you" or "she was never attracted to you". And basically using "don't be such a pussy" type of language.

I guess I’m reading the wrong threads. I’ve missed all of this. or maybe I just tend to skip to the last comment made by the OP and try to help them from there. I confess I don’t read threads throughout.

I have seen threads where someone says something like “you can’t negotiate attraction” to help a BH understand that if their WW has decided to transfer her loyalty to another man, the best thing he can do is walk away and grey rock her. That’s a lot different than saying “you’re an unattractive person” which would be an awful thing to say. I spend a lot of time on threads trying to help BH’s with their self esteem by writing affirmations about them or recommending they read something like The Way of the Superior Man or No Mr Nice Guy - I sure hope no one here is going to claim these are toxic or misogynistic books. And if a WW is exhibiting clearly distasteful characteristics, I’m not shy about pointing out how ugly and vile that behavior is. Why would one sugar coat that?

I never saw the abortion thing or a comment about hurting a WW during sex. I think most knowing my background and my faith, If I had I probably would have called both out - of course tbh someone would have accused me of being an anti abortion Nazi I’m sure.

Anyway.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:00 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

hikingout posted 8/10/2020 15:21 PM

Thumos,

All I just pointed out I have seen this multiple times in multiple threads. And, I have seen some people descend upon a WW who called the police because the BH got physical with her, claiming she was lying and it actually was true. I have seen a bh come on and tell everyone that he made his ww give him oral sex in their van and if she refused she was to get out and walk. I saw many people say that wasn't cool, but so many say "I can see how you got there".

I have certainly seen many a post that was the equal of calling the bh a "pussy". I think you could find those in your own thread. We are not allowed to copy and paste quotes or I would go find some for you. There is a "man up" philosophy that some will use quite derogatory, imagined scenarios that are meant to enrage the BH into action. It's really sad to see that imposed on a new BH who is reeling. It does happen. This is not imagined. I don't think I am one for hyperbole, nor do I think that of the posters on this thread.

I will also say I think it's well intended. I think they want the guy angry because they feel that will protect him in the situation. I don't think it's said in maliciousness. But, it's a good thing to point out just so people can continue to evaluate themselves if nothing else.

Thumos posted 8/10/2020 15:39 PM

I think you could find those in your own thread.

I do remember a few like that in my own thread but I was able to shake that off pretty easily because 1. They seemed to be in the distinct minority. 2. I know objectively I’m not. And 3. Because they weren’t consistent posters and didn’t have much to offer beyond that.

There is a "man up" philosophy that some will use quite derogatory, imagined scenarios that are meant to enrage the BH into action

Some of this definitely remember In my own thread but often it was because I had not filled in a detail or provided context. Once I did those tended to melt away. In any case I knew it didn’t track with my own situation.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:59 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

hikingout posted 8/10/2020 15:43 PM

Well, Thumos,

I do agree that you would be able to shrug off comments like that. You joined after you had 3 years to process! I am not saying that that's a problem or that you didn't come here still a broken man, I am just saying there are a lot of new men who come here that are still in the early days. I don't know that you are representative of a newbie who has no idea when someone is or isn't a consistent poster. I know you could maybe see that as a difference.

blahblahblahe posted 8/10/2020 18:49 PM

I must admit this seems like projection...perhaps even manipulation considering the number of debates that have recently taken place where the BW have demonstrated clearly a double standard.

But here goes...

Consequences for actions and the perception of others are difficult to project and even less to control.

Women wanted parity (seem to have exceeded parity in cheating from the latest studies) and for the most part, have achieved that objective. HOWEVER, like all things it comes at a price, in this case, accountability for actions.

There is no more hiding behind chivalry or lying upon the fainting couch, women must now accept this reality and attempts to control narratives are likely to cause the pendulum to backswing further.

As the Millenials are fond of saying....time to start "adulting"

Sunspot posted 8/10/2020 18:56 PM

But BH's saying stuff to newbies like "He made her wetter than you do", or "he had bigger junk than you" or "she was never attracted to you". And basically using "don't be such a pussy" type of language.

I'll point out again, this isn't "burning the witch" it's "shaking the BH."

99problems posted 8/10/2020 19:09 PM

I was a prime example of someone in the BH "fog" when I arrived on this site. I talked a good game but allowed myself to be sucked back in, bit by bit, with the main excuse being to "stay for the kid". My WW said that many times. And my guilt about bringing in a child into the world to be raised in a broken family contributed to that.
Of course, when the STBXW exhibited no signs of trying to move forward after the initial gaslighting phase, and when I got so depressed that I couldn't even function as the great parent that I am able to be, that's when I started to find that real courage and integrity to be able to leave and make my life better. It took me a long time.
I was, and still am, not the mentally healthiest person.
This(healing and changing) takes work. Hard work. A lot harder than running a jackhammer all day, hanging 200 sheets of drywall, delivering furniture to the 5th floor of an apartment building with no elevators, or taking care of dying elderly people(all things I have done to take care of my family).
I hope we all realize that when a JFO thread pops up. They(new BS) have a very large mountain looming in front of them that they must climb, or be doomed to years or decades of unhappiness. It is not a fun place to be and I think we all know that here.
But in our enthusiasm to help I think some of us (including myself) aren't as mindful as we could be of that fact.

I got hit with some of the "your wife is a skanky whore" type comments in my first post. They weren't wrong, but it did have the effect of me ignoring some of the good advice that they had for me.
It's not all that effective of a strategy.

Stinger posted 8/10/2020 19:11 PM

Not sure I have seen much of the crude stuff. Maybe a little spread her legs deal, but wetter? I think that some of this is a reaction by men when they finally figure out that women are just as craven and into sex etc. as anyone else. And, that this whole women trading sex for emotional fulfillment deal is not true in many cases.

When I was young and in shape, decent looking, I cannot begin to count the number of times some woman would approach me for sex. So, i sort of knew this already.

We are brought up with this bullcrap that little girls are sugar and spice etc. In reality, some of the meanest,cruelest people i have met have been women.

So, i think some of this language might be designed to make a naive BH see his wife for what she really is.

ChamomileTea posted 8/10/2020 19:28 PM

I got hit with some of the "your wife is a skanky whore" type comments in my first post. They weren't wrong, but it did have the effect of me ignoring some of the good advice that they had for me.
It's not all that effective of a strategy.

Let me ask you this, IMcS... did you hang around posting during that period of false R, or did you feel uncomfortable admitting that you weren't ready to D yet? Did you feel like you would get continued support and discussion no matter what you decided? Did you feel shamed by whatever crudity you saw directed at your WW?

Stinger posted 8/10/2020 20:12 PM

I also saw that in my initial foray into researching infidelity, I was constantly coming across articles and solicitations for reconciliation services, proclaiming how the vast majority couples stay together after one cheats and how common it is that the marriage is better etc.

I think , maybe, some of the vitriol toward the cheating wife is helpful in dispelling that bullcrap. After all, how DC does one have a better, stronger marriage when one's spouse is a cruel, vile, disordered asshole?

99problems posted 8/10/2020 20:21 PM

Let me ask you this, IMcS... did you hang around posting during that period of false R, or did you feel uncomfortable admitting that you weren't ready to D yet? Did you feel like you would get continued support and discussion no matter what you decided? Did you feel shamed by whatever crudity you saw directed at your WW?

I did feel some shame and I wondered whether I would get continued support. I did post in R and got a different kind of support there, but I did quit posting after awhile, mostly because I realized that the answers I needed at that time would come from me and nobody else.(too independent for my own good)
I'm not at all angry or hurt by the posters who wrote those things, I feel that they did have my best interests in mind and were offering what they thought was most helpful. It's just that for me it wasn't. For some jfo posters it may be more helpful, idk.

[This message edited by Idiotmcstupid at 8:22 PM, August 10th, 2020 (Monday)]

fareast posted 8/10/2020 20:23 PM

I believe there are better ways to make a nave BH see his WW for what she is.

I have to agree with hikingout, that in the years I have posted there have been many, many threads involving a new BH using the same vulgar language toward his WW, and the new BH simply disappears. Idiotmcstupid is not the first or the only BH to find this approach off-putting. W I think many, many BH’s appreciate directness. IMO adding crass name calling or sexual slurs, calling the WW a cheap slut or a whore ends up being counter productive to what the forum is intended to provide. Hopefully, the point is to keep the new BH around so that he can get the full benefit of the incredible experience and wisdom available here. Just my two cents.

[This message edited by fareast at 9:05 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

99problems posted 8/10/2020 20:26 PM

I also saw that in my initial foray into researching infidelity, I was constantly coming across articles and solicitations for reconciliation services, proclaiming how the vast majority couples stay together after one cheats and how common it is that the marriage is better etc.

Stinger, this was also my experience and it was much more harmful than any crude thing anyone said to me.
It's a money making buisness to promote reconciliation these days.

Stinger posted 8/10/2020 20:37 PM

It makes you think you are deficient in the ability to forgive if you cannot get past this. I am not exactly certain what it is about this particular offense, cheating, that makes it virtu impossible for me to forgive, whereas normally, with just about any other offense( probably not one involving hurting one of my kids), I am not a grudge holder.

That is wh as t these proclamations about staying together, stronger, better blah,nlah do. They make you think you are the odd man out if it is an absolute dealbreaker. And, while my evidence is only anecdotal, I think it is complete bs that most couples stay together and are stronger etc. I just really doubt this.

Bigger posted 8/10/2020 20:48 PM

Stinger – this site was founded by a couple that went through infidelity. The wife – DeeplyScared – passed away some years ago after building this site to what it is. I think I can fairly say nobody did as much for this site as she did. Her husband – MangledHeart – is the webmaster and comes a close second in what he has done for us.

Would you say that DeeplyScared was “a cruel, vile, disordered asshole“?
What about BrokenRoad – the wife of Wifehad5 our admin? Same apply to his wife? Her contributions on this site false and all lies?

Isn‘t that like crashing a party, eating the free snacks and then peeing in the punch-bowl?

If I scan your threads I don’t see a single one where you give any BH any chance for reconciling or a single kind or helpful word for any WW. I see a lot of assumptions: you remote-diagnose wives as psychotic, crazy, the worst and so on. Frankly I see comments that I doubt really help a hurt man that comes seeking help and advice. I won’t copy/paste the quotes because that’s against policy but you make broad generalizations where you define all cheaters as ongoing liars, that men should dispose of the garbage and that a WS will never give a shit about their BH.

You are not alone with this sort of behavior: Recently a poster claimed that in his vast experience all betrayed husbands that “reconciled” only managed it by a regular consumption of shit-sandwiches. When I questioned him on if that applied to our host Mangled Heart he grudgingly reached in to where he keeps his condiments and pulled out an imagined low number for successful R.

I‘m OK with anyone that thinks divorce is the best route out of infidelity. I’m even OK with those that think it’s the only good way out of infidelity. I’m also OK with those that think the same about reconciliation. I don’t agree with them: I think limiting your options to one solution that has to act as a fit-all solution is neither correct nor likely to succeed. But I’m OK with people having and presenting either solution.

What I often don’t agree with is the presentation. I think we can be firm but direct without wild assumptions, generalizations, fear-mongering and harsh words.

I personally think the BS has one option that is always open for him/her (D) but might have another option IF CERTAIN THINGS ARE IN PLACE (R). Whether the BS can or wants to R is IMHO totally up to him/her and needs to be built on their value system and what they can handle – not our views or morals.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:35 AM, August 11th (Tuesday)]

JanaGreen posted 8/10/2020 20:52 PM

I think if the BS is really great at rugsweeping, the WS might feel like the marriage is better. As long as those pesky feelings of betrayal dont pop up to spoil their day

Edit - bigger, that wasn't directed at your comment. I know remorseful waywards do exist and true R is possible - I'm referring more to the toxic positive "oh this trial will make us stronger!" with no corresponding actual work.

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 8:54 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

66charger posted 8/10/2020 21:25 PM

And, I have seen some people descend upon a WW who called the police because the BH got physical with her, claiming she was lying and it actually was true. I have seen a bh come on and tell everyone that he made his ww give him oral sex in their van and if she refused she was to get out and walk. I saw many people say that wasn't cool, but so many say "I can see how you got there".

All of this pales in comparison to what the BH "sees" on the other side of the forum.
Some of the wayward stuff written on here is really fucked up...for both genders. False R, DD2 and DD3 are more common then reconcilliation stories on SI.

Most of these threads have something in them that sets off a trigger. Be it paternity, race, in our bedroom, involving our children in the affair or the grandaddy of them all...Things she did with the AP and STILL refuses to do with the loving husband.

If thats not enough, No sex BH please come over and fix my lovers furnace so we can have passionate intercourse, but please dont call me a witch. Men are REQUIRED to speak softly, suck it up, heal themselves and empty out their pockets.

Why should a BH do that? Why can the BH not say what we feel, how we feel it and when we want to say it on a forum that preaches take what you want and leave the rest?, Because the crudeness of the language of a BH in pain outweighs the crudeness of the affar?

The truth is, a forum is generally the only place a BH can release "words" without fear of a DV charge and a restraining order. No one writes here because they have nothing better to do on a saturday night.

Rage if you want to brother. Many many men and I dare say quite a few women, have silently listened, understood and said a prayer that you survive infidlety in your own way. Your voice is heard.


ChamomileTea posted 8/10/2020 21:42 PM

Why should a BH do that? Why can the BH not say what we feel, how we feel it and when we want to say it on a forum that preaches take what you want and leave the rest?, Because the crudeness of the language of a BH in pain outweighs the crudeness of the affar?

But are you talking about your WW or some new BH's in JFO? Sure, open a thread, call your WW all the disgusting names you want, describe her sexuality in lurid detail while using the crudest terminology which comes to mind if it makes YOU feel better. Like I said before though, some people forget that the new BH is still ATTACHED to the "witch" and he's getting scorched on the pyre. Most of them come in here still saying that they "love their wife". And I know from my own experience that I was still weirdly protective of my WH in the months after DDay. I had been a proud wife and already felt shamed by him. But I didn't have to hear in vulgar terms about what a slutty whore he is or how horny for the OW he was, and I didn't have anyone scoffing about how I needed to find my "balls". I can only imagine what that must feel like, but when I do... it's awful, like getting your teeth kicked in after the worst day of your life.

HellFire posted 8/10/2020 21:47 PM

Deleted so I don't break a guideline

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:02 PM, August 10th (Monday)]

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