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Burn the Witch!!!

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ChamomileTea posted 8/8/2020 01:31 AM

They are reminded to be kinder, gentler, etc than BW here. BW yells...its an expression of her pain. BH yells....abuse.
BW tells her WH to leave..she found her bitch boots. BH tells his WW to leave...he threw her out in the street. 0

Verbal abuse is NOT okay, not from men, not from women. I agree that women are too often given a pass on that. But I haven't really noticed any "he threw her out in the street" situations. I would expect that both BH and BW would get some support for standing up for themselves with an active WS. That said, I do think that IRL, the man is much more likely to see a D/V charge if there's any domestic disturbance over who's leaving.

GoldenR posted 8/8/2020 01:33 AM

I don't see it in every BH thread. The more...polarising (I guess that's the word I'm looking for) yes, it's there.

The one that's referred to had maybe the biggest humiliation and emasculating aspect to it I've ever read. The BW equivalent be the WH asking his unknowing BW to please bring dinner to work for him and his boss bc he was going to be working very late with his (female) boss and they were both starving. He then requests she cook his favorite meal which she does and brings 2 plates. And then it turned out it was just a meal for them to eat in between sex sessions in her office.

Another that comes to mind had the WW marrying her BH just as a cover bc she really liked guys of a different ethnicity but her family would never approve. So she married him, had a family with him, and was a serial cheater the entire marriage with men of that different ethnicity.

With BWs it usually gets to a "Burn the bastard" mentality when he gets physically abusive (or threatens it).

[This message edited by GoldenR at 1:35 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

ChamomileTea posted 8/8/2020 01:41 AM

Let's just say, men almost invariably do not retain and bring home DNA which might be present inside the body for at least 10 to 14 days, possibly, speculatively for life (micro-chimerism) which might result in a possible unknown fraudulent legal and financial commitment for at least 18 to 21 years.

And yet, that weirdly doesn't seem to bother many men when they're on the dating scene. What's more, we're in the best age in history for detecting OC's. We do have the technology as well as the logical awareness that this technology exists.

I do get that it's different when it's your spouse and you aren't expecting non-monogamy. But I don't think this is a good enough argument for more overtly hostile toward WW's than WH's.

ChamomileTea posted 8/8/2020 01:48 AM

Great point, and in fact, women's bodies are able to commingle male genital microbiomes with their own in a way men who have sex with other women cannot -- meaning that a betrayed man is typically tricked into a rape/non consensual threesome or foursome with other men's genital microbiomes, not just their semen.

Again, I don't see how that's limited to male victims. By your math, women shouldn't be able to get an STD from a cheating partner. If you're just grossed out that the sperm might still be alive in there, yeah... there's an "ick" factor. But men can pass on a whole lot of flora and fauna to their female victims as well, and it's just as gross knowing that some OW had all her fluids all over your WH. Ask any BW who puked on DDay.

ChamomileTea posted 8/8/2020 02:02 AM

Women IMO are mollified a great deal when the man gives up the affair. The existential dread a woman feels in an affair is abandonment, and it's possible (correct me if wrong ladies) for a cheating husband to eventually provide security that not only takes away the risk of abandonment, but also gives the BW a feeling of having won the competition.

A BH has always lost the competition. Always. The AP of a WW has always emerged the victor. There's no way to undo the existential dread of what a man feels, and all the symptoms that go with it (mind movies, disgust, emasculation).

There are some generalizations here, but I'd be interested to hear some further clarification on how the "BH has always lost the competition". Couldn't the same be said of BW's? If not, why not?

ChamomileTea posted 8/8/2020 02:05 AM

With BWs it usually gets to a "Burn the bastard" mentality when he gets physically abusive (or threatens it).

Yeah, I can see a situation like that getting really vitriolic really quickly. Agreed.

DictumVeritas posted 8/8/2020 02:08 AM

And yet, that weirdly doesn't seem to bother many men when they're on the dating scene. What's more, we're in the best age in history for detecting OC's. We do have the technology as well as the logical awareness that this technology exists.

This is simply because we have to accept it as a foregone conclusion. Believe me given a choice, I would have married a virgin and stayed with her for life. That choice is almost impossible to realize.

As for your spouse, her bringing another man's DNA home for any amount of time, standing there chit-chatting to you while being the container for another man's seed and Genetic material. I am sickened by writing down this truth that befalls BHs.

ETA:

A WW with few exceptions causes the destruction of the sanctity of the BHs home by invading it with genetic material from the AP.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 4:53 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

ShutterHappy posted 8/8/2020 03:35 AM

ChamomileTea,

I think that, generally speaking, men tends to gravitate more towards anger and rage and women more towards depression and sadness.

Of course it would be easy to find counter examples, but I’m more talking about tendencies.

In the thread you are talking about, there are a number of relatively newly minted BH and their anger is still burning hot. So as posters in JFO post their advise and opinions it also serves the dual purpose of exorcising their demons. I think we all do this to some degree (BH or BW), and for BH, it comes across a rage and anger.

This particular BH (the OP of that thread) is not in the “pick me dance” zone at all. He doesn’t need a 2x4. He is firm yet compassionate (as you suggested). He is marching towards D and he’ll be fine. His WW doesn’t deserve him. He doesn’t seem to have a particular desire to “punish” and hurt his WW, infidelity is a dealbreaker, so D will ensue.

I don’t think he needs 600/1000 posts to tell him what his WW did was bad. So why keep on posting the same stuff? Because it helps more the posters than the OP, I suspect.

I bet that if you read posts from BH that are 10, 20 years out, they will be less “ANAL! SWALLOW! SHE ENJOYED HUMILIATING YOU! I’TS THE WORST THING I HAVE EVER READ IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. DIVORCE NOW NOW NOW! “ and more like “this is the good, this is the bad, this is blame shifting, this is minimizing, this is gas lighting, this is probably true or sincere, this is reality, this is fiction, and those are your options, you choose”.

The problem with being angry is that you have to live in it, so it has to stop eventually... 🧘‍♂️

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:44 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

StrugglingCJ posted 8/8/2020 04:44 AM

I think part of the anger that is shown the WW above that shown the WH is that men are generally alot more territorial than women.. We do unfortunately see our wives as ours.. And in human history wives have long been regarded as chattels.. Reinforcing this belief..
So when that property gets "invaded" by the AP we feel a sense of injustice.. We either D and lose what used to be ours.. Or we try for R and have to get over the fact our WW willingly chose to "gift" themselves to someone else..
We want to attack the AP.. Hurt them.. Mainly because it diverts our attention from who truly hurt us.. The WW.. but hurting them is not accepted if we are trying for R.. so when a post comes up about a WW we can direct our anger there at another WW.
I know that feeling... I know the desire to slap some sense into people.. And I know it hurts so much being betrayed.. Whether as a man or woman.. I am just grateful there are enough on SI who show compassion, common sense and dignity.. Who TRY to help you in the right direction.. For those.. Thank you..

Sunspot posted 8/8/2020 06:39 AM

but I'd be interested to hear some further clarification on how the "BH has always lost the competition". Couldn't the same be said of BW's? If not, why not?

I think this distills down to "men pursue, women are pursued."

If your wife is pursued, the BH didn't head off the interception. You hear this self-recrimination all the time with BH's-- "if only I'd realized he was prowling around."

[This message edited by Sunspot at 6:39 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Booyah posted 8/8/2020 07:50 AM

I agree with Keptmyword, "they are both pathetic".

Thus however one wants to describe a cheating husband or a cheating wife goes with the territory.

So at times one thread may rip one harder than another?

It's a forum on the Internet.......get over it!

cocoplus5nuts posted 8/8/2020 07:50 AM

Yes, I see it a lot. It seems to be a relatively new thing, too. I don't remember that sort of vitriol when I joined in 2014. I took a break for a year or so in 2017/2018. Came back and I am continually seeing all kinds of unbalanced sexist comments and misogynistic attacks.

I do see a lot of, it's ok if the BW screams and yells and smashes things, but not ok for the BH. I can understand how it's much scarier coming from a man. It is very scary to see my H rage and he has never laid a hand on me or smashed anything. That doesn't mean it's ok for one, but not the other.

scrambledbrain posted 8/8/2020 08:11 AM

Cham T:

Thanks for posting this. I think your observation is highly accurate, and that the attitude transcends SI; traverses the whole infidelity construct.

I don't say it's fair; it's not. But I think there are reasons, and I'd like to share my perspective.

It all comes down to how our biology shapes our romantic, sexual and social modes of operation. I believe that science has firmly established that our drive to reproduce is the strongest of our organic urges that do not directly involve our survival (e.g. breathing air). In both conscious and unconscious ways, this deeply informs our relationship dynamic.

If this is correct, then the prerogatives for men and women diverge dramatically. In order to maximize the probability and incidence of reproduction, a man, with billions of sperm that are active from adolescence to death, should seek out as many sex partners as he can. A woman, on the other hand, who has about 400 eggs and less than 40 years to reproduce, must select her partners much more care.

In addition, women face, in general, higher health and safety risks n sex than do men.

I think this frame has seeped into how we organize our individual and social activity, and is not. always directly noticeable.

But if this hypothesis is valid, then a woman's choice to be unfaithful is a riskier, higher consequence decision than it is for a man. I truly think that this is why, ON BALANCE, the actions of a WW, and the impact on the BH, are viewed as more poignant than the reverse case. It also may be why R in a WW/BH situation, is a more difficult prospect.

I'd be very interested in the views of others on this. From a moral/ethical standpoint, there is and shouldn't be any difference here, but again I feel that there is more at play when a woman steps out than when a man does.

Again, I say it's unfair. I just think it's reality.

Just some thoughts from an old sinner....

Carissima posted 8/8/2020 08:20 AM

As for your spouse, her bringing another man's DNA home for any amount of time, standing there chit-chatting to you while being the container for another man's seed and Genetic material. I am sickened by writing down this truth that befalls BHs.

While not being the same thing I have read BWs of giving oral sex to their WH before DDay and noticing something off only to realise afterwords their WH had sex with their AP and then let their wife give ttelwifehem oral without showering or even using a wet wipe in between. That's just degrading, to me it's different but the same as described as above.
I also believe there are a few members who have cancer linked to HPV due to their cheating WH.
As for the evidence and statistics, they're there. Just look at JFO without getting defensive.

HellFire posted 8/8/2020 08:41 AM

I agree with everything Ellie said. Every word.

Sunspot posted 8/8/2020 08:52 AM

But if this hypothesis is valid, then a woman's choice to be unfaithful is a riskier, higher consequence decision than it is for a man.

This was a salient point to make. A WW is either specifically and rationally "trading up" or a WW is a loose cannon, incapable of rational thought.

Either of those cases represent an unsafe partner, forever. And the pile-on is part of the urgency to communicate that to the BH.

I don't think this is the same dynamic for WH's. WH's are almost always cake-eaters, no?

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 8/8/2020 08:55 AM

We might remind someone to take off their rose-colored glasses and really LOOK at the unenviable traits we see in their cheater, but why does that so often end up in statement's like "man up", or "get your balls out of her purse", or "stop being a cuck". These new BH's in JFO typically come in already suffering some weird sense of shame, like they could have stopped it if they'd just spent more time with their WW, or made better money, or had been better lovers. So, what purpose does that serve?

Just to be clear for anyone reading this thread, all of those statements above are considered a violation to the guidelines. I understand a lot of times those statements can slip through the cracks because threads tend to move faster than any of us have time to read. We always welcome pm’s when you feel any particular member being treated unfairly or disrespectfully.


DictumVeritas posted 8/8/2020 09:07 AM

Every single one of us are the centers of our own universes. To each of us our pain is the most severe because it is the only pain we can truly experience.

The more we have in common with someone, the more we can relate to that person and thus empathize with that person and in a manner experience a simulation of their emotions.

In relating to their stories we also project some of what we experienced onto them in our minds eye.

As to vilifying X or Y, when viewed through the lens of pain, even a minnow might appear to be a whale.

I find adulterers to be detestable. That is a neutral and true statement.

I find an adulteress woman detestable. That is also a true statement, but excludes adulterers and therefore not neutral.

Since I am a man and I have been cheated on by women, the first sentence invokes emotion, but the second floods me with it.

Setting aside the biological and pertaining more to the thread that parented this discussion, was it as much a cry to burn the witch or more a cry of solidarity and empathy?

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 9:20 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 8/8/2020 09:28 AM

When women in this site say that you have to be a woman to understand the deep and complicated societal history we have with men feeling entitled to our bodies, we get dismissed. We're told that we're misandrist, we're imagining it, and that expecting a wife to do certain things in the bedroom has nothing to do with ownership or control.

Move along to another thread, and we are told that you have to be a man to understand the deep emasculation that a man feels when the woman he owns is "invaded" by another man. He's wired to see her as his property, and we just need to understand and accept that. Apparently no woman can comprehend the depth of male revulsion at the idea that his property was breached and seeded by another man's DNA.

I'm so tired of hearing men tell me that men know men's minds and experience better than women do, that men also know women's minds and experience better than women do, and that men comprehend the implications of what both genders decide to do with their bodies better than women do. I'd be interested to see if any of the men promulgating these theories will acknowledge any case or circumstance where a woman might have a superior understanding of human psychology or greater depth of personal pain than a man.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 9:30 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Unhinged posted 8/8/2020 09:31 AM

Are WW's treated with more contempt than WH's???
I think you're asking the wrong question. Swap out the guys and gals and ask: are BH treated with more contempt than BW?

I think, in general, much of this is based upon how we define ourselves as men vs how we define ourselves as women. Whether this is based upon genetics or social factors is, I'm sure, up for debate. Still, men are less apt, in my experience, to be empathetic and supportive. We are more apt to despise weakness (perceived or actual) in others and in ourselves.


ETA: Well written, BraveSirRobin!

[This message edited by Unhinged at 9:33 AM, August 8th (Saturday)]

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