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Burn the Witch!!!

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HouseOfPlane posted 9/1/2020 10:27 AM

Let's take everyone's favorite example of someone posting something that is harsh or isn't going to be helpful:

“go ahead and stay if you’re alright with being a cuck”

Someone is really making a statement about themselves when they make that statement.

It's highly manipulative. When you say something like that, you are trying to put that person into a feeling-state that makes them act in a certain way. You are driving to an outcome you want, which may or may not be what they want.

What most people need when they first get here is to just be heard. Get some sympathy. Have some people ask them some questions, which shows caring.

Sideways suggesting they're a cuck is pretty much the opposite of caring.

Dranth posted 9/1/2020 13:12 PM

I am hesitant to post here but as someone who is still in the earlier stages of this mess, I can say I did see some of this when I first posted but it was mixed with more measured responses. If I just went by the most extreme posts, I would have come away believing for the last 20 years my WW was an epic porn star who had been banging anything that moves with reckless abandon and wholehearted gusto since 2 days after we first started dating. While her being reduced to the cookie monster of penis was amusing in an extremely painful and morbid way, it did send me down some dark roads however, in the end, it did not offend me.

I understood what they were trying to do and I did need to examine the possibilities. I did need to be ready in case some or all of it was true and while it wouldn’t be my approach, I try to remember that everyone here is bringing their own personal pain and experience with them and are trying to be helpful. They are waving the red flag frantically trying to tell me there is more danger ahead. I get it.

I get that in some cases using harsh or overtly nasty/descriptive language can help break through to someone and I understand why they do it but to me it seems like there are two types that use this approach.

The first is truly trying to help and while I’m new and therefore reluctant to offer any real suggestions to anyone I would propose that instead come out a bit gentler. Be mindful of your experience. Yes, you see the same stories over and over and over in JFO but for the person posting, this is all new to them. You know all too well that the person you are dealing with is destroyed because you have been there. Maybe find a kinder way to say the same thing and give them a bit of time to process and internalize it. If they are still circling after being given some space to organize their thoughts, come in with the big guns and unload but give them that initial grace period to start and process/understand what their life has become.

The second type are less helpful. These seem to be the few extreme folk that let their experience turn them into a woman or man hater. They swing in, drop what they perceive as a deeply spiritual and well thought out nugget of “knowledge” that is really just them projecting and then disappear off into the night. I feel sorry for this group.

On a separate note, by far the most helpful thing that happened for me early on here was two separate people that sent a PM both saying up front “You are going to hear a lot but take what you need, look at what people say but discard the noise that doesn’t fit. You are likely going to feel this, this and this, that is normal and okay. Just keep in mind that only you know yourself and your relationship.” That message was quickly reinforced by a number of people in my thread and some of the stuff in the healing library. Keeping that in mind I was able to stay a bit more grounded than would have been possible otherwise.

Edit: Fixed some typos.

[This message edited by Dranth at 1:20 PM, September 1st (Tuesday)]

c24j posted 9/5/2020 00:44 AM

@sissoon
Thanks, and sorry, taught English as a second language for years, including to immigrants. Good communication is the KEY to understanding and success (and that goes doubly or perhaps triply for relationships, especially marriage).
People often use or misuse language, and when upset, (often inadvertently) confuse standards and definitions. I don't mean to interrupt, just to clarify when something seems incorrect or at the very least, a bit out-of-line.

Cooley2here posted 9/23/2020 16:47 PM

I brought this back up to page 1 because I see this happening right now. When someone presents a case the only thing we have to go on is the information given. The poster that I am referring to admits that he was not a good husband. The best prediction of a divorce is if someone holds the other in contempt. That’s what this poster seems to be admitting to.

GoldenR posted 9/24/2020 02:17 AM

Cooley -

Im not sure I follow.

Who is holding who in contempt? The BS is holding the WS in contempt?

[This message edited by GoldenR at 2:39 AM, September 24th (Thursday)]

The1stWife posted 9/24/2020 03:41 AM

On this site I have recently called out two contributors. I did as “fair but firm”. One person called the poster a liar in essence. As in “I don’t see how that could happen” in essence. An apology was made.

Second one I defended the original poster when people / contributors assumed the mistreated GF went back to the no-good BF. In fact she had. We ALL know it’s a mistake but she made that choice.

Many offered support and help. But others were just bashing her and calling her a loser. I don’t see where it helps.

Especially in Just Found Out. People needs hugs and kindness more than anything.

blahblahblahe posted 9/24/2020 08:46 AM

brought this back up to page 1 because I see this happening right now. When someone presents a case the only thing we have to go on is the information given. The poster that I am referring to admits that he was not a good husband. The best prediction of a divorce is if someone holds the other in contempt. That’s what this poster seems to be admitting to.

If it is the thread I suspect, you (I believe) brought this back up because the majority of people have rejected your perspective.

A more important question is why do you feel the need to attempt to control the narrative of a discussion? You stated your opinion, it was set aside for the most part, why not just simply move on?

Cooley2here posted 9/24/2020 15:37 PM

Bbb, I don’t have an opinion that is set in concrete. I worry that a new poster is going to be overwhelmed after being blindsided because many are telling them to dump the cheater. That might not be what they want or need to hear. They might need practical advice. Finances, bills, kids, health, school, friendships, obs are all slapping the poster in the face. My thinking is that they slow down enough to think. That’s all.

nekonamida posted 9/24/2020 15:53 PM

C2H, who doesn't initially think of themselves as a bad spouse in the wake of DDay? All of us look back and wish we had done something different and feel guilty about it. We were average, even some of us exemplarily, and yet due to blame shifting from the WS and how prominent the thought that the BS is some how responsible for the cheating, we all go through a period of thinking it's us. So many of us fall for that pitfall or even start to think we did something wrong when we did not because the WS used it as a reason why they cheated. Because of that, I never think right off that bat that the BS is nearly as bad as they say they were unless they have indicated clear evidence of being a bad spouse such as abuse or extreme neglect. And even if the BS is a bad spouse, is it worth kicking someone while they are down? Is it helpful to harp on them when they acknowledge they messed up? No, I don't think so. What's helpful is letting them know they get a second chance to do better in the new marriage they build in R or their next relationship and they should take that offer seriously.

This is a support form first and foremost. I can't help but find it terrible when any of us BSes, all of us who KNOW how much of a mindfuck infidelity is, decide to put down and tear into another BS because they did something we didn't like. We're already getting it from all sides that we're responsible and judged for the terrible things our WSes choose to do. We don't need fellow BSes pointing it out to us too.

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