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Burn the Witch!!!

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Thumos posted 8/8/2020 11:39 AM

I thought it was specific bc she posted it right after she suggested it in AH’s thread , right after she and I disagreed, and right after I made my comment that alluded to “burning the witch” - it didn’t take much to connect the dots. But it doesn’t matter, kind of a thread jack.

Drumstick posted 8/8/2020 11:40 AM

I've been here almost four years, and yes, this happens about once a year. A thread is made about it, issues hashed out, and it subsides for a while. Or, the issue is hashed out directly in the JFO thread. Search 'Burn the Bitch' or 'Burn the Witch,' 'Burn the Witch Gang,' 'Witch Hunt Gang,' 'Pro R v Pro D,' "Pro R vs Pro D,' or similar phrasing. Here's a few:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=622495&AP=1&HL=

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=627724&AP=1&HL=

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=634948&AP=41

Anecdotally, I see this push happening most often when one of the other two primary infidelity websites is running low on new meat. Here's what Bigger wrote about that website and it's cognoscenti a few years back:

Removed, per policy.

Of the three primary infidelity websites, I like this one the best. In my opinion, one is primarily filled with the 'Burn the Bitch' crowd that pushes only D onto its reader, while the second is filled with a more pro-reconciliation crowd (and also has a OM/OW group.) SI, I think, takes the best approach. Get out of infidelity, R or D. Inform the BH/BW of the pitfalls and advantages of both R and D, but leave the decision up to them, without telling them divorce is the only way. Unfortunately, as this thread and the other threads provided above demonstrates, its undergoing a push to D is the only way forward right now.


[This message edited by Drumstick at 2:48 PM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Darkness Falls posted 8/8/2020 11:48 AM

t/j:

Why are men who works hard. Dedicated to provide a better life for his family. Always seen as the bad guy. Works long hours. Comes home (nice home family enjoys) dead tired. But he's a prick because he ignores his wife. I don't understand.

What don’t you understand? Unless you think money and provisions are the only things that a.) women want from a relationship and b.) all that men are good for, I don’t see what there is to not understand. The man you describe in this situation is most certainly contributing to a crappy marriage. Nope, doesn’t mean he deserves to be cheated on, if that’s what you were implying—that women think that sort of dynamic is an excuse. But what *I* don’t understand is the sort of man who does this and then looks around after years of it and wonders why his M is in the toilet. My H said to me the other day that he was under the impression that I “lost interest in our relationship” after we decided not to have a third child. FFS, I almost laughed out loud—I lost interest after years of literally being ignored. (For reference, this dynamic is a decade after my A.)

waitedwaytoolong posted 8/8/2020 11:55 AM

I think part of the reason, is that men talk to other men differently than they talk to women.

I have said to my guy friends to go f yourself probably a thousand times. I maybe said it once to a woman. In conversations when I was working, if I was angry with someone’s performance, when discussing it I was more deliberate in how I approached it with a woman than a man. Maybe that’s considered sexist, but I think it has been taught from an early age.

When I was a kid I would wrestle and punch my guy friends all the time. Roughhousing. We didn’t roughhouse with the girls.

This ingrained thought carries onto here. A BH commenting on a BW thread will phrase things differently than if he is commenting on a BH thread.

It may not be the whole reason, but it’s part of it

siracha posted 8/8/2020 11:59 AM

There are good men here who think that honor is a male virtue that providing for your family is a male virtue ... etc etc what im starting to realize is that ive been a man all my life and so have all my female friends :)
Either that or these kindly souls need to get out more or at least consider that the world outside of their experience maybe full of stronger better women than their inner worlds and close social circles
That being said i think its reasonable to also accept that male emasculation doesnt really have a female counterpart. I think many of the male threads that go on for ever really are an emotional response to help the man through cuckholding ( sorry) not through infidelity .
Interestingly enough some men have angrily persisted in trying to help the “ cuckhold” even after the Bh has made it clear thats not how he sees himself
I hope the way of the superior man teaches men that true maturity nobility and responsibility are human values and there is no need to ascribe a male gender to things that are universal . Perhaps even that its a micro-aggression to do that

sisoon posted 8/8/2020 12:05 PM

** Posting As A Member **

Random thoughts …

The formula of the attacks is usually something like, ‘She did ____ and _____ and _____, and you, the BH, just sit there and take it?!

As a BH, I see that as attacking the BH more than the WW. Perhaps most women would see that as primarily attacking the WW.

I don’t know whether WWs or BHes get attacked more, but I do think a survey of SI would see more anger and contempt aimed at WWs and BHes than at WHes and BWs.

I think such a survey would also show that the attacks on BHes come primarily from other BHes, perhaps - probably, IMO - from BHes who are unhappy with the way they handled their own post-d-day actions – but that’s purely speculation.

*****

Boys are not taught the skills needed to deal with feelings. When inundated with the terrible feelings that come with being betrayed, some men lash out at others. Some attack WWs, some WWS and BHes.

Some men place a high value on quick decisions to D – ‘decisiveness.’ My sense is that they tell BHes to D as a matter of course. My sense is also that BWs don’t get that pressure.

It’s not a quick decision WRT D & R that heals. What really works is deciding to get authentic, figuring out what you want, and going for it.Alas, It’s not fair, but in order to heal, BSes also need to deal with their own shit.

BSes are generally traumatized by d-day. It usually takes time to manage the trauma enough to see that the way out, and it definitely takes time to deal with one’s own shit.

For some reason that draws attacks from people who believe one size fits all.

*****

Thumos,

You have set a double standard with thatbpguy. You have made assertion after assertion without empirical evidence, and yet you demand empirical evidence from a guy who disagrees with you.

You will heal more quickly and more fully without double standards. Just sayin’….

*****

An emotionally developed and stable woman far exceeds a man in her capacity for empathy to the point that it is called a woman's intuition. This is something so profound that it actually evokes a sense of wonder in a man lacking the ability to such an extent.
My intuition is pretty good in a whole lot of areas, and I really am male. We all have useful intuition.

If a person thinks he is not intuitive, I imagine he will fulfill his own prophecy by not listening to his intuition.

I most definitely like women, and I love the biological differences, but I doubt that they have intellectual powers that men don't have. (I also doubt that men have intellectual powers that women don't have.)

*****

BSR,

Good post.

Too many of us make too many assumptions about other people and people in general. What is especially frustrating is that many of the assumptions are entirely unnecessary.

Too many of us pretend we know things we don't know. That, too, is entirely unneceesary.

I think more needs to be said on the questions of understanding each other, but your post is a necessary part of the basis of any such discussion.

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 12:05 PM

I have said to my guy friends to go f yourself probably a thousand times.

In fact insults and rough language and the like are pretty much standard for how most men relate to each other affectionately. It’s an adult form of roughhousing and seems to happen in almost every culture on the planet.

Chili posted 8/8/2020 12:07 PM

Hey CT: When I first saw your thread pop up, I almost replied with just "Oh boy." I wasn't going to post at all since I started a Burn the Bitch vs. Burn the Bastard a couple years ago.

But I will reiterate what I was trying to get at there, which is on the heels of what LE said a couple pages back.

I think when we try and parse things down into camps and dividing lines, it can do a disservice to the collective of SI as a support *group*. Those labels that imply someone has it *worse* in their infidelity journey is kind of horseshit of the highest order. Gender lines, parental lines, age lines, marital lines - what does the division serve? Isn't the idea more voices and more perspectives who can offer their particular insight? Instead of *you as a _____* will never get it. I just don't understand how that's helpful.

I read here on SI for long time before I posted and was worried that I somehow wasn't quite legit because I didn't have kids with assclown. Instead I received amazing support from many men and women all across the label spectrum. And I don't think my journey was any less or any *more* than anyone else's around here. Maybe I have a couple of unique little logistical parts of my story that might connect with certain posters, but those are just a sidebar.

I'm not bright enough to understand the microbiome/DNA discussion and how that affects genders differently cognitively and emotionally as they survive the pain of infidelity.

But as CT alluded to, I had a complete visceral reaction when I discovered ascclown had made me sick by literally invading me with his funky dick. That one piece alone prompted a couple of serious puking spells from a previous non-puker.

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 12:17 PM

I think many of the male threads that go on for ever really are an emotional response to help the man through cuckholding ( sorry) not through infidelity .

I’m not big on sanitizing our language. I don’t go around dropping f bombs in front of my kids or in professional settings And I think it gets overused. But think the word is absolutely tremendous. It’s such a great word. Whoever came up with that word was a genius.

Orwell has some great thoughts on why sanitizing language is dangerous. Read his “Politics and the English Language” for more.

There’s no need to apologize for using terms like “cuckoldry” and “cuckold.” It’s only because the alt-right has misused this term that people get the wrong idea.

It’s simply a long-used term to describe the particular phenomenon of a betrayed husband.

Like “adultery” it does still at least have the value of icy water and feels a bit more bracing than more sanitized terms.

That is why I use it. Not to be cruel. But because it cuts through.

I’ve raised this point elsewhere before but it is the case that some of the terms we use like “wayward” tend to sanitize, sugar coat or slightly elide the actual ugly reality. Wayward brings to mind the image of a naïf wandering forlornly in a dark wood, which is obviously facially absurd.

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 12:21 PM

Thumos,

You have set a double standard with thatbpguy. You have made assertion after assertion without empirical evidence, and yet you demand empirical evidence from a guy who disagrees with you.

You will heal more quickly and more fully without double standards. Just sayin’….

Fair enough. Touche.

Actually thatbpguy and I are having quite the cordial conversation on a different thread on a different topic.

This one sets me off for some reason. I’m not exactly “triggered” by it but I do find it annoying.

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 12:26 PM

most definitely like women, and I love the biological differences, but I doubt that they have intellectual powers that men don't have. (I also doubt that men have intellectual powers that women don't have.)

Actually women can use both hemispheres at once while men can hyper focus in one hemisphere in ways women cannot. And there seems to be a greater spread of low IQ to high IQ among men. Men tend to have better spatial ability. Wornen tend to have better verbal ability. Men have better visual acuity. Women have better peripheral vision. All empirical assertions.

Why, you’d almost think we were meant to compliment each other in monogamous pair bonds or something.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:29 PM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Chili posted 8/8/2020 12:29 PM

It’s simply a long-used term to describe the particular phenomenon of a betrayed husband.

What's the long-used term to describe the particular phenomenon of a betrayed wife?

thatbpguy posted 8/8/2020 12:30 PM

Actually thatbpguy and I are having quite the cordial conversation on a different thread on a different topic.

For the record, Thumos is one of my 5 favorite posters and always has been. Well reasoned, fair, direct, introspective and I have no beef with him at all. I rarely disagree with him and think he is a tremendous help in the JFO forum. Far more than I am.

We just had a minor crossing of the swords that was trivial. I took no offense at all.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 12:32 PM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 12:32 PM

What's the long-used term to describe the particular phenomenon of a betrayed wife?

A woman scorned?

PS I just did a search for “cuckoldress” thinking perhaps I might find an equivalent term for “cuckold” and the search results that came up were ... ahem ... not what I expected 🤣

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:39 PM, August 8th (Saturday)]

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 12:35 PM

For the record, Thumos is one of my 5 favorite posters and always has been. Well reasoned, fair, direct, introspective and I have no beef with him at all. I rarely disagree with him and think he is a tremendous help in the JFO forum. Far more than I am.

Giving me far too much credit. I like your tag line thatbpguy — see you guys, the farmer and the cowman can be friends! 😂

DictumVeritas posted 8/8/2020 12:35 PM

I would take it a step further than Thumos and state that I abhor sanitized language. I am not stating that I prefer a boorish style of expression, but sanitizing language is simply Orwellian in the deviant nature by which it suppresses true communication of sentiment.

A cliché persists for a reason, because of the veracity at it's core. I have to respectfully defend the cliché of woman's intuition and nullify that admitting to a lower intensity of intuition constitutes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Intuition by it's nature may be described as more direct access to the cerebrum by the cerebellum.

This is indeed more observable in women than men.

OwningItNow posted 8/8/2020 12:36 PM

I think when we try and parse things down into camps and dividing lines, it can do a disservice to the collective of SI as a support *group*.

Yes, except if there is an actual dividing line. Then ignoring it will only allow the problem to fester while drawing attention to it might allow for change.

BraveSirRobin, fantastic post on page 3! Yep, yep, and yep.

Sisoon, you also made many great points while posting as a member. Thank you.

Chili posted 8/8/2020 13:00 PM

Yes, except if there is an actual dividing line. Then ignoring it will only allow the problem to fester while drawing attention to it might allow for change.

I hear you - I actually wasn't trying to say to ignore or deny dividing lines exist. I was more lamenting what happens when you set up us vs. them camps. Which has more to do with posters possibly not receiving the support they need.

Re: Scorned woman. Doesn't quite have the punch or panache does it? It too has all sorts of baggage that comes with it. Rightly or wrongly. And as you said - sometimes the baggage has to do with groups co-opting or misusing/overusing them. I mean, I was concerned before I contacted OBS that I was going to be seen as a woman scorned (a little bit nutty, worse than the fury of hell, and trying to ruin someone else's life. Like that?)

I don't consider myself a language sanitizer either, but I think most of us realize the connotations associated with particular words and in what context they get slung about. Hence, WOES post about "name-calling" and guideline violations.

Thumos posted 8/8/2020 13:11 PM

I don't consider myself a language sanitizer either, but I think most of us realize the connotations associated with particular words and in what context they get slung about. Hence, WOES post about "name-calling" and guideline violations.

Okay but if we keep stuffing more and more words into the 'name calling' category as a society, eventually there won't be much remaining and you're left with the imbecilic "doublespeak" in 1984.

This is exactly what Orwell was warning against. It's what Bradbury warned against. It's what intellectuals like John McWhorter and Jonathan Haidt keep warning against.

DevastatedDee posted 8/8/2020 13:17 PM

There are good men here who think that honor is a male virtue that providing for your family is a male virtue ... etc etc what im starting to realize is that ive been a man all my life and so have all my female friends :)

Thank you for joining me in the group of women who have discovered on SI that they are transgender, lol.

I just took one of those bullshit male/female brain tests online and it registered me as male. I have make-up, high heels, all kinds of hair products. I love shoes. I am currently taking a break from mowing grass, and I'm watching my painted nails type this post.

This "we're so different" is cultural bullshit.

And, btw, my best girlfriend and I regularly greeted one another all of our lives with "Hey bitch!" and "What's up, whore?".

Perhaps if all you other women who have recently discovered that they have the wrong genitals could get together with me, maybe we'll get a sex-reassignment surgery discount.

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